American election system

[olowshinenine]

It's my understanding that one citizen gets one vote per election cycle correct? That's how it was supposed to be? Well we register to vote with minimal documentation ie a utility bill, and zero proof that we are a citizen. Aside from checking a box affirming under the pains of perjury we are citizen. Then when we get to the voting booth to vote we are given a paper ballot where we fill in some circles to cast our vote. Do we sign this ballot? Do we mark this ballot in some way to link that unique ballot to that unique citizen? No. There is no place on the ballot where the citizen is linked to that ballot. Sometimes an envelope is used to seal the ballot inside and that envelope may have our name. However it is later opened and the ballot is inserted into a machine for counting. The ballot can be reproduced creating immense fraud.

Look at all the state ballots from 2020. None of them link the citizen to the vote.

Official sample ballots, 2020

Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics

ballotpedia.org

Forget about ids forget about having a valid election. The problem is there is no link between the ballot and citizen.

 

[nomoreketones]

I agree.

Looks like in many states, there is no way to tell the difference between real ballots and fake ballots. In some of the states signatures don't need to be verified either. If millions of fake votes are put through the election system in many states there would be no way to identify or measure this. The best you could do would be to point out statistical anomalies but statistical anomalies alone can't be used to prove anything.

Recounts would be useless too because all the fake ballots would be counted in every recount. If there is a lot of suspicious activity that surfaces, neither side will be able to prove beyond a doubt that their side won the election.

In my opinion there should be a bipartisan effort in place to come up with a standard for mail in ballots that allows for traceability while at the same time guaranteeing the privacy of the voter. I think each voter should be able to verify their vote to make sure it was counted. This is an engineering challenge but it can be done I believe. Cryptographers can come up with a system using private keys and hash codes that will allow the individual voter to verify their vote while at the same time remaining anonymous.

 

[David PS]

@olowshinenine - It is called a secret ballot.

Secret ballot - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Mossy]

Voting integrity should be considered a major priority. If a "democracy" does not have fair elections is it a democracy? I could guess that the world's history of elections, if it's like any other human institution throughout history, is plagued with fraud. To accuse those wanting election integrity of every "ism" is telling and should make those doing the accusing suspect.

 

[olowshinenine]

I agree.

Looks like in many states, there is no way to tell the difference between real ballots and fake ballots. In some of the states signatures don't need to be verified either. If millions of fake votes are put through the election system in many states there would be no way to identify or measure this. The best you could do would be to point out statistical anomalies but statistical anomalies alone can't be used to prove anything.

Recounts would be useless too because all the fake ballots would be counted in every recount. If there is a lot of suspicious activity that surfaces, neither side will be able to prove beyond a doubt that their side won the election.

In my opinion there should be a bipartisan effort in place to come up with a standard for mail in ballots that allows for traceability while at the same time guaranteeing the privacy of the voter. I think each voter should be able to verify their vote to make sure it was counted. This is an engineering challenge but it can be done I believe. Cryptographers can come up with a system using private keys and hash codes that will allow the individual voter to verify their vote while at the same time remaining anonymous.

Cryptography is exactly what I was thinking. Every election cycle a citizen can opt into voting by requesting a ballot. Every citizen gets a unique code and one ballot. They must mail the filled in ballot or drop it off before a certain date. Computers read that code as they tally the votes, that code cannot be used twice. Once the code is registered they know that citizen voted.

It would be so easy to do with today's technology, fair, not racist, blah blah blah. Anyone could do it just as easy as registering to vote is today. The problem is how do you determine citizenship? Birth certificate?

 

[olowshinenine]

@olowshinenine - It is called a secret ballot.

Secret ballot - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Okay then cryptography would be perfect to keep things anonymous. I am just very concerned about the mass production of ballots and no link to the citizen.

 

[olowshinenine]

Voting integrity should be considered a major priority. If a "democracy" does not have fair elections is it a democracy? I could guess that the world's history of elections, if it's like any other human institution throughout history, is plagued with fraud. To accuse those wanting election integrity of every "ism" is telling and should make those doing the accusing suspect.

Exactly and the fact our voting system is so old. Technology could create fair elections in my opinion with the advent of blockchain tech and cryptography the government could provide every citizen a unique wallet and issue a voting token per election cycle. That token is spent digitally when someone orders a ballot to fill out or by voting online within a unique app.

 

[David PS]

Okay then cryptography would be perfect to keep things anonymous. I am just very concerned about the mass production of ballots and no link to the citizen.

Yet another alternative. it is low tech but effective.

Election ink - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[olowshinenine]

Yet another alternative. it is low tech but effective.

Election ink - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Perfect there's nothing more unique than somebody's fingerprint I would be fine with something like this just to link the citizen to the ballot the next hurdle is making sure only citizens are getting ballots to vote with. In Massachusetts where I'm from registering to vote only requires you press a button that says you are a citizen.

I think the entire system needs to be revamped make sure only citizens are getting their hands on one ballot, properly link that ballot to the citizen and then create a voting holiday/deadline date so nobody is crying that they did not have the opportunity to vote.

 

[olowshinenine]

It's just so sad All these people talk about getting out to vote rallying the base blah blah blah blah blah blah blah and if the election system itself is broken what is the point I feel like the number one issue for every pundit politician and citizen is making sure a voting system is in place that is accurate and very hard to duplicate votes

 

[nomoreketones]

Cryptography is exactly what I was thinking. Every election cycle a citizen can opt into voting by requesting a ballot. Every citizen gets a unique code and one ballot. They must mail the filled in ballot or drop it off before a certain date. Computers read that code as they tally the votes, that code cannot be used twice. Once the code is registered they know that citizen voted.

There are some things that really need to be engineered an updated voting system.

First of all there must be checks and balances in place to weed out fictional people while at the same time insuring anonymity of real voters. Each voting precinct should be small, no more than 100 people. Then if there are more votes in a precinct than the number of people who registered ballots then the votes should be thrown out and the precinct should be required to vote again.

Secondly, if someone finds that their vote has been cast by someone else, there must be a process in place to remedy this. In our current system if someone steals your ballot and votes for you there is no recourse.

Thirdly there must be a way for a citizen to anonymously verify their vote after it was cast to insure that it was counted and to insure that it wasn't altered without their knowledge. If a citizen finds that his/her vote was not properly counted or was fraudulently altered there must be a process in place to remedy this.

Fourthly, there should be a way for a citizen to prevent other people from voting in their place. If a citizen decides not to vote they should be able to cast a non-vote and that will make it impossible for anyone to maliciously steal their vote.

 

[Layne]

In my opinion there should be a bipartisan effort in place to come up with a standard for mail in ballots that allows for traceability while at the same time guaranteeing the privacy of the voter.

Hi @nomoreketones -- Unfortunately, that's unlikely to happen. The main reason being is that one of the main political parties (I won't way which one, but it does start with an R), has no interest in free and fair elections, much less devise ways to make them more free and fair.

The "R's" have been systematically doing their darndest to suppress votes for decades now, using a wide variety of ways to try to accomplish that. Undermanning voting places that are predominantly minority voters, "purging" voters from voter rolls, which are usually almost Democratic voters, closing or severely restricting early voting in minority neighborhoods, a variety of out-right intimindation methods, and much more.

The reason they're doing this is because they feel their backs are up against the wall with the changing demographics in the U.S. Their own identity is that of being white and Christain, and the percentage of Americans who fit that demographic is on a steady decline. So the last thing they want is greater voter participation. Instead they continue to pass voter restriction bills, and hope they can throw more and more elections into the "R" state legislative bodies to essentially overturn free and fair elections.

It's a sad state of affairs, but it's not wise to be oblivious to the obvious.

 

[nomoreketones]

Hi @nomoreketones -- Unfortunately, that's unlikely to happen. The main reason being is that one of the main political parties (I won't way which one, but it does start with an R), has no interest in free and fair elections, much less devise ways to make them more free and fair.

I have to disagree.

There are two political parties who have no interest in free and fair elections. One of the parties begins with an 'R' and one of the parties begins with a 'D'. This is because both of these parties are really a single uni-party that has a stranglehold on power. There are a few issues where 'D' and 'R' have differences but that is just to provide the illusion of democracy in the United States.

The 'R' and 'D' establishments don't want free and fair elections because they have found that when they don't take full control over the outcome they can end up with a president that is not part of their protected class of elites that really run the country.

For Democracy to be restored both the 'R' and 'D' parties need to be dissolved along with all the corrupt organizations and government agencies that make up the uni-party that have had a stranglehold on power in the United States since the 1950s and maybe even earlier.

 

[Mossy]

Exactly and the fact our voting system is so old. Technology could create fair elections in my opinion with the advent of blockchain tech and cryptography the government could provide every citizen a unique wallet and issue a voting token per election cycle. That token is spent digitally when someone orders a ballot to fill out or by voting online within a unique app.

I like that. But like with all technological advancements, they somehow don't implement it where reason and real need call for it.

 

[olowshinenine]

Hi @nomoreketones -- Unfortunately, that's unlikely to happen. The main reason being is that one of the main political parties (I won't way which one, but it does start with an R), has no interest in free and fair elections, much less devise ways to make them more free and fair.

The "R's" have been systematically doing their darndest to suppress votes for decades now, using a wide variety of ways to try to accomplish that. Undermanning voting places that are predominantly minority voters, "purging" voters from voter rolls, which are usually almost Democratic voters, closing or severely restricting early voting in minority neighborhoods, a variety of out-right intimindation methods, and much more.

The reason they're doing this is because they feel their backs are up against the wall with the changing demographics in the U.S. Their own identity is that of being white and Christain, and the percentage of Americans who fit that demographic is on a steady decline. So the last thing they want is greater voter participation. Instead they continue to pass voter restriction bills, and hope they can throw more and more elections into the "R" state legislative bodies to essentially overturn free and fair elections.

It's a sad state of affairs, but it's not wise to be oblivious to the obvious.

I would love to see how republicans don't believe in fair elections. I believe in what I said above. CITIZENS are only allowed to vote and vote once per cycle. You leftists constantly under estimate "minorities" and their ability to get an ID or register to vote. Do you know how easy it is register to vote? It as simple as asking google how do I register to vote in xyz state. You also encourage non citizens to fraudulently register to vote and participate in our elections, because you know there is not enough manpower to investigate all the fraud and it will go completely unnoticed. You leftists are a disgrace to the country.