DHEA levels in young children? And how to prevent it's conversion?

[TruffleGnocchi]

There are papers talking about DHEA decline and supplementation could resolve a lot of problems related to aging. I see some sources say DHEA levels are low or significantly lower in childhood than in teens or young adults.
Is this really the hormone of such importance if this is true?

When I do things through the night, have been awake a lot not much sleep, and then I insufflate + sublingual both DHEA and Pregnenolone, the effect it gives me is noticeable. I feel like I regain myself, not from yesterday but more deeply. The depth and feel and richness of thought and vision and feel of future, gives me that zest, like I can almost feel my thoughts and potential future ahead, like a whole part of me or function or capacity long lost has been restored. Off the top of my head only thing I can think of that is comparable in power, maybe more powerful not sure havent done it in a while, is BDNF, specifically semax and maybe selank (I assume its BDNF increase from semax that gives that effect, maybe it isnt). And maybe T3.
Anyone know a good source that documents DHEA and Pregnenolone levels through the age 1-80?

Then. If the DHEA levels are high in childhood, how are there no Estrogen problems? And how could we replicate that, to prevent DHEA converting to E and maybe T as well.

If DHEA is not high in childhood. Then is it really that important? Maybe something else is doing the job of DHEA in childhood so it is not needed in high amounts?

Other than sources saying its not elevated in childhood but teens and young adults, it seems like a great molecule: blocks cortisol, increases metabolic rate, neuroprotective,..

DHEA Enhances Emotion Regulation Neurocircuits and Modulates Memory for Emotional Stimuli​

Does Vaginal DHEA Work as Well as Vaginal Estrogen?
​

I think if something is to be considered essential for health in medium-high amounts, it cannot be low in childhood, I think that is a reasonable assumption. And things that are considered toxic or degenerating, cannot be considered as such if it is present in high amount during childhood, unless something else is counteracting its effect or makes the effect not be present, but then can it really be said that molecule is the problem, and not the lack of the other thing that makes this molecule not harmful.

I've read Peat's article on Growth hormone: Hormone of Stress, Aging, & Death?
Honestly, after looking at his source he cited that according to him shows "normally functioning pituitary appears to be unnecessary to grow to normal height." I was a bit disappointed he would feel at ease stating that and including that to support the statement Was probably the first of his cited sources that I read, now I will read more of his sources for his arguments. To be fair, the title of the article has a question mark at the end, suggesting he gives this as an idea or theory. But to be fair, he talks about the harm of growth hormone in his talks with more certainty, not as a question a theory or idea if I remember correctly? Correct me if I'm wrong.
So how can Growth Hormone be the hormone of aging & death, when it is high in childhood, very high in teens and late teens, and declines from that point on to a low level that is not comparable to childhood and teen level. There are no problems of water retention in children and teens. It is much more frequent among adults, that have a lower amount of growth hormone.
Do you have ideas of how Growth Hormone can still be "bad" or the hormone of aging and death, despite this simple fact? Maybe if GH was lower in a child, the child would be Even healthier, dwarf, or healthier for longer? I find it hard to believe. Maybe we are thinking about molecules and biology the wrong way

 

[EustaceBagge]

There are papers talking about DHEA decline and supplementation could resolve a lot of problems related to aging. I see some sources say DHEA levels are low or significantly lower in childhood than in teens or young adults.
Is this really the hormone of such importance if this is true?

When I do things through the night, have been awake a lot not much sleep, and then I insufflate + sublingual both DHEA and Pregnenolone, the effect it gives me is noticeable. I feel like I regain myself, not from yesterday but more deeply. The depth and feel and richness of thought and vision and feel of future, gives me that zest, like I can almost feel my thoughts and potential future ahead, like a whole part of me or function or capacity long lost has been restored. Off the top of my head only thing I can think of that is comparable in power, maybe more powerful not sure havent done it in a while, is BDNF, specifically semax and maybe selank (I assume its BDNF increase from semax that gives that effect, maybe it isnt). And maybe T3.
Anyone know a good source that documents DHEA and Pregnenolone levels through the age 1-80?

Then. If the DHEA levels are high in childhood, how are there no Estrogen problems? And how could we replicate that, to prevent DHEA converting to E and maybe T as well.

If DHEA is not high in childhood. Then is it really that important? Maybe something else is doing the job of DHEA in childhood so it is not needed in high amounts?

Other than sources saying its not elevated in childhood but teens and young adults, it seems like a great molecule: blocks cortisol, increases metabolic rate, neuroprotective,..

DHEA Enhances Emotion Regulation Neurocircuits and Modulates Memory for Emotional Stimuli​

Does Vaginal DHEA Work as Well as Vaginal Estrogen?​

​

I think if something is to be considered essential for health in medium-high amounts, it cannot be low in childhood, I think that is a reasonable assumption. And things that are considered toxic or degenerating, cannot be considered as such if it is present in high amount during childhood, unless something else is counteracting its effect or makes the effect not be present, but then can it really be said that molecule is the problem, and not the lack of the other thing that makes this molecule not harmful.

I've read Peat's article on Growth hormone: Hormone of Stress, Aging, & Death?
Honestly, after looking at his source he cited that according to him shows "normally functioning pituitary appears to be unnecessary to grow to normal height." I was a bit disappointed he would feel at ease stating that and including that to support the statement Was probably the first of his cited sources that I read, now I will read more of his sources for his arguments. To be fair, the title of the article has a question mark at the end, suggesting he gives this as an idea or theory. But to be fair, he talks about the harm of growth hormone in his talks with more certainty, not as a question a theory or idea if I remember correctly? Correct me if I'm wrong.
So how can Growth Hormone be the hormone of aging & death, when it is high in childhood, very high in teens and late teens, and declines from that point on to a low level that is not comparable to childhood and teen level. There are no problems of water retention in children and teens. It is much more frequent among adults, that have a lower amount of growth hormone.
Do you have ideas of how Growth Hormone can still be "bad" or the hormone of aging and death, despite this simple fact? Maybe if GH was lower in a child, the child would be Even healthier, dwarf, or healthier for longer? I find it hard to believe. Maybe we are thinking about molecules and biology the wrong way

I don't think you would want unnecessarily high DHEA. People with trauma's usually have that and it's the bodies' mechanism of preventing cortisol induced damage. After a while, it becomes a problem on its own where the root cause is not fixed and cortisol doesn't cut it anymore:

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/comments/rlmk22/hormones_ptsd_and_cortisoldhea_levels/


For growth hormone, I think that most of the acute elevations are usually the body needing to release energy, like when you do intense exercise, or the body needs to prevent catabolism like when you do prolonged fasting. Even though GH can rise dramatically, it promotes no anabolism and thus can be seen as a "stress-hormone", or rather an anti-stress hormone that is elevated in times of stress.

On it's own it can have uses and I believe many Hollywood models know about GH and thyroid therapies to remain youthful. So I wouldn't say GH is bad, but it is usually associated with bad, like prolactin and estrogen.

 

[TruffleGnocchi]

I don't think you would want unnecessarily high DHEA. People with trauma's usually have that and it's the bodies' mechanism of preventing cortisol induced damage. After a while, it becomes a problem on its own where the root cause is not fixed and cortisol doesn't cut it anymore:

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/comments/rlmk22/hormones_ptsd_and_cortisoldhea_levels/


For growth hormone, I think that most of the acute elevations are usually the body needing to release energy, like when you do intense exercise, or the body needs to prevent catabolism like when you do prolonged fasting. Even though GH can rise dramatically, it promotes no anabolism and thus can be seen as a "stress-hormone", or rather an anti-stress hormone that is elevated in times of stress.

On it's own it can have uses and I believe many Hollywood models know about GH and thyroid therapies to remain youthful. So I wouldn't say GH is bad, but it is usually associated with bad, like prolactin and estrogen.

Didnt know DHEA gets elevated with mental stress. Is it comparable to teen levels?

When fasting it makes you not die and not wither into skeleton, sparing tissues so that more energy is extracted from fat instead, it seems like something you would want the body to do when glucose store is getting low so you dont lose a ton of muscle and other tissue every time you go without food for a bit longer.
GH deficiency leads to stunted growth afaik. Lionel Messi was put on GH when young because he had stunted growth. I assume there must also be differences in IGF-1 levels unrelated to GH levels. I heard scandinavian nordic people have higher IGF-1.
GH promotes lipid burning, so it could be seen that it promotes insulin resistance, but when you eat food, carbs especially, then insulin gets released and also then IGF-1 production is stimulated in presence of GH + Insulin. Maybe it counteracts the GH effect on insulin sensitivity, it binds weakly to insulin receptors.

Growth hormone has a short half-life of around 15-30min. The IGF-1 that gets created when insulin is also present and binds to proteins has half-life of many hours. Maybe natural periodic release of GH could be glucose uptake promoting overall when not fasting. Thats a very uneducated guess

When glucose is low and fat is used, fat has it's own uptake molecule that is not insulin but acts like insulin only for fat.

From what I hear it is problematic when bodybuilders use exogenous GH and in high amounts, means it is nothing like natural 15min half-life release of it, but stays elevated all the time even if they eat a ton of carbs, then they need to take insulin along-side it to keep responding to glucose. I think if dose is moderate, despite GH being elevated throughout the day, not like natural release, they are still fine from what they tell on youtube. Some report going hypo from high doses of IGF-1 alone without insuling, not like insulin injection dangerous level hypo but hypo. Based on this anecdotal reports from bodybuilders I assume the IGF-1 glucose uptake effect is not negligible.

Elevating Prolactin and Estrogen sound concerning.

 

[EustaceBagge]

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/Step2/comments/103444j/dheas_and_testosterone_one_page_in_uworld_has_a/


So here it states than in people with early adrenarche it is DHEA that causes that. Of course the question is why is there a premature adrenarche to begin with, as I believe it is caused by environment (stress, bad diet etc.). The uworld page states that this does not affect height, but DHEA is inherently estrogenic and with no androgens to offset the effects it may very well slightly stunt growth. There is proof that bone age is more advanced with people having this condition.

From what I hear it is problematic when bodybuilders use exogenous GH and in high amounts, means it is nothing like natural 15min half-life release of it, but stays elevated all the time even if they eat a ton of carbs, then they need to take insulin along-side it to keep responding to glucose. I think if dose is moderate, despite GH being elevated throughout the day, not like natural release, they are still fine from what they tell on youtube. Some report going hypo from high doses of IGF-1 alone without insuling, not like insulin injection dangerous level hypo but hypo. Based on this anecdotal reports from bodybuilders I assume the IGF-1 glucose uptake effect is not negligible.

Elevating Prolactin and Estrogen sound concerning.

What I meant was not that GH raises prolactin and estrogen, but that they usually go hand in hand. The thing about insulin resistance starts at about 4iu long term use, but most people that use it for wellness use 2iu.

For pubertal height growth, if IGF-1 is low you shouldn't immediately resort to GH, instead you should try to determine why it is low (low protein, hypometabolic) and after fixing those should you supplement it. GH without the right diet will still not make you much taller.