Ainaga

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for all the meat packers and pipe dreamers out there pumping iron and supplementing

 

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dopamineBIGa.jpg

From:Cupid's Poisoned Arrow


***“On the 7th day of abstinence, however, a clear peak of serum testosterone appeared, reaching 145.7% of the baseline ( P < 0.01). No regular fluctuation was observed following continuous abstinence after the peak.”
A research on the relationship between ejaculation and serum testosterone level in men. - PubMed - NCBI


***Even though ejaculations seemingly have no significant effects on serum testosterone levels, they can (at least according to rodent studies) alter the body’s ability to utilize testosterone. It has been seen that after multiple ejaculations a sharp decline in androgen receptors takes place inside the hypothalamus, and not only that, but a sharp increase in estrogen receptors follows as well. One rodent study also found out that 1 or 2 ejaculations in short span of time increased androgen receptor activity in the body, while 4 or more ejaculations caused a significant drop in the activity of AR, suggesting that ejaculating yourself to “sexual exhaustion” might lower your body’s ability to utilize androgens.
Ejaculation and Testosterone Levels: Masturbation Lowers T?


***Studies have shown if you masturbate more than twice in a day, there becomes a decline in androgen receptors in your brain. These are what allows your body to use testosterone by binding to it – with less of these, the less your body can use and lower your active testosterone levels will be. [7]

And to make matters worse it’s been seen to make estrogen levels increase. [8] While your androgen receptors are on the decline, estrogen receptors are on the rise, meaning they’re binding to more of the female hormone in your body and increasing your risk of lower testosterone.

[7] Romano-Torres M, Phillips-Farfan BV, Chavira R, Rodriguez-Manzo G, Fernandez-Guasti A. Relationship between sexual satiety and brain androgen receptors. Neuroendocrinology. 2007;85:16–26.
[8] Phillips-Farfan BV, Lemus AE, Fernandez-Guasti A. Increased estrogen receptor alpha immunoreactivity in the forebrain of sexually satiated rats. Horm. Behav. 2007;51:328–334.
Does Masturbating Lower Testosterone? - TestoFuel Blog


***Today, there is also a growing number of evidence that links testosterone levels with the number of times you ejaculate in a single day. This is evidenced by changes observed in your number of androgen receptors or receptors that allow you to utilize testosterone throughout your body. Hence with lower androgen receptors, you will essentially also have lower active testosterone levels.

According to a study conducted by the Universidad Veracruzana in Mexico, one to two ejaculations for a short period of time can increase androgen receptor activity. However, when ejaculations are done four or more times during a short period of time, there is a significant reduction in androgen activity. Specifically, it was observed that androgen receptors returned to its baseline level after the fourth ejaculation. (study)

This finding seems to be supported by another study done by the Centro de Investigación y Estudios Avanzados and Instituto Nacional de Ciencias Médicas y Nutrición 'Salvador Zubirán' in Mexico. Their experiment revealed that multiple ejaculations resulted in a significant decline in androgen receptors. (study)

At the same time, a study conducted by CINVESTAV in Mexico found that while androgen receptors are decreased after multiple ejaculations, there is also a significant increase in estrogen receptors. (study)
Is There a Link Between Masturbation and Testosterone?


***Dopamine is a major factor. Drugs and activities whichc change the regulation of dopamine will alter libido. Dopamine agonists (pramiprexole), dopamine reuptake inhibitors (wellbutrin, cocaine, methamphetamine) will all cause increases in reward seeking behavior including but not limited to libido. Dopamine blockers such as antipsychotics are often considered libido killers.

Dopamine is counter-regulated by prolactin which is released after male ejaculation, so increases in prolactin cause dopamine and libido to drastically fall off. The other name for dopamine is prolactin inhibiting hormone, or PIH. Males who are able to ejaculate multiple times in a row with no refractory period tend to have a reduced production of or response to prolactin.

Testosterone is a huge factor in libido for men and women. Testosterone acts as a neuromodulator and potentiates dopamineric activation of the sex drive.
ELI5: What causes libido, and why does it vary so much between people? : explainlikeimfive


***It not only helps regulate testosterone production in men, but also helps to regulate immune functions, salt and water balances, metabolic functions, endocrine system, brain and behavior, and growth and development. Prolactin is what tells your body that it’s satisfied after sex, and lets the arousal mechanisms (aka dopamine) know they can settle down for a bit.
...
Because higher levels of prolactin are found in fathers of young children and in expectant fathers, as compared to un-mated males, according to a large-scale study in the Phillipines, behavioral endocrinologists have theorized that a modest rise in prolactin helps prepare men for the task of fatherhood. It quiets the sex drive, they figure, and along with oxytocin—with its weird reputation for being both the “cuddle” hormone as well as a byproduct of stress—helps dads of young children bond to and empathize with their offspring.

Elevated levels prolactin in the blood signals the gonads to make less testosterone (hypogonadism).

Sometimes levels also go up during periods of stress, even briefly.
...
It can be helpful to look at prolactin levels next to testosterone levels, because ongoing high prolactin secretion will signal the body to lower testosterone production.
Prolactinemia | Causes of Male Infertility


this is what 'YOU' can achieve after 'X' amount of days!
renderTimingPixel.png

  • 5 minutes - heart rate returns to normal.

  • 2-3 days - guilt and shame seems to decrease.

  • 7 days - brain fog lifts.

  • 14 days - prolactin starts to drop.

  • 14 - 21 days - due to drop in prolactin, dopamine sensitivity increases, you can start to enjoy the little things in life again, no longer emotionally numb, energy levels start to increase big time, confidence also increases.

  • 30 days - cravings and flashbacks noticeably reduce.

  • 30-60 days - PIED symptoms disappear or improve. Erections become rock solid, unless you're PIED symptoms are severe. Confidence keeps rising

  • 42 days - ΔFosB (DeltaFosB) that has accumulated around the nucleus accumbens starts to remove itself. This makes it possible for the neurons in the porn-addicted pathways to now start to slowly break up over time without use.

  • 90 days - considered a full reboot for most people, however people with severe PIED will need longer. Confidence still rising

  • 120 - 150 days - symptoms of severe PIED disappear or improve.
this is what 'YOU' can achieve after 'X' amount of days! : NoFap

This image shows some of the hormonal changes in men before, during, and after orgasm.

43RWkMg.png


The above image was taken from this article: Specificity of the neuroendocrine response to orgasm during sexual arousal in men. (2003)

Source: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
 
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Ainaga

Ainaga

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your study, with testosterone and other hormone correlations with orgasm, shows interestingly the patterns of hormones after ejaculation and correlation with testosterone.
in the case of hormonal patterns induced by removal of the testes and/or penis, and testosterone is absent or underproduced, what hormone patterns do we see?
you make an interesting comparison, but in the case of eunuchs, what is the relationshop between abstinence and testosterone levels? abstinence with little to no testosterone. the opposite, you could say, of the study.
a study (impossible for lack of test subjects) comparing the longevity of married and unmarried eunuchs and their hormonal profiles would give something to reflect.
studies on eunuchs take as given that testosterone levels are way down, and so assume rightly that low testosterone leads to decreased morbidity, or is correlated with other hormonal patterns that lead to it.

with the nofap thing, you see an increase in testosterone again. it is claimed in some circles that chastity increases life force, and that ejaculation depletes the life force, so should be stored exclusively for having children. purportedly, food to semen is the longest route, where a certain amount of food is refined and reduced so that even the smallest amount of semen necesitates ample amounts of food in a process that is taxing, and reflects in the energy and mood of a person.

but again in the case of enuch abstinence, low testosterone per se is the main cause "increased life force" (at least in so far as longevity is concerned); or the expression of other hormonal patterns is the guiding principle. how those patterns relate to those of abstaiting persons with intact genitalia would say something?
 
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Ainaga

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The lifespan of Korean eunuchs​



70 is not great.
that is true. but the study isn't comparing us with eunuchs of that time, but normal people of that time with eunuchs of that time. the assumption is that you can translate that information to now because you've determined the variable. the other variables are accounting for the difference in longevity between the normal people of that time and of now. the increased longevity of eunuchs was several hundredfold, if i remember correctly, with more centenarians than normal at the time.
so we are talking more centenarians, so probably then more supercentenarians, and higher record lifespans maybe
 

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A recent mouse study on castration. Not that amazing. Keep your testicles.

Castration-Mouse-Lifespan.jpeg
span.io/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Castration-Mouse-Lifespan.jpg
 
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Ainaga

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A recent mouse study on castration. No where near 15 extra years equivalent. Keep your testicles.

View attachment 57764span.io/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Castration-Mouse-Lifespan.jpg
of mice and men, or versus

plus one is a lab, the other is real life
 

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that is true. but the study isn't comparing us with eunuchs of that time, but normal people of that time with eunuchs of that time. the assumption is that you can translate that information to now because you've determined the variable. the other variables are accounting for the difference in longevity between the normal people of that time and of now. the increased longevity of eunuchs was several hundredfold, if i remember correctly, with more centenarians than normal at the time.
so we are talking more centenarians, so probably then more supercentenarians, and higher record lifespans maybe
Sure, they explain why living to 70 is really impressive.

Are you making the case that men should contemplate castration based on that number? I would disagree.

Franko Columbu just died at 78. Stalone and Schwarzenegger seem to be doing well. It's like the mouse study...a few years this way or that.
 
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EustaceBagge

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for all the meat packers and pipe dreamers out there pumping iron and supplementing

Low testosterone = low conversion to estrogen.

Low stress male with high testosterone = more conversion to DHT and general androgenicity (good)
High stress male with high testosterone = more conversion to estrogen and general stress hormones (bad)

And did the eunuch lead a normal life, with a (nagging) wife, children and hard labour, or was the eunuch some kind of priest, government official or on a spiritual journey?

of mice and men, or versus

plus one is a lab, the other is real life
It just gives credibility to the fact that being eunuch is not just being castrated, but living a different life altogether. In animals you can see what happens to eunuchs if they live a normal life, and in the wild the outcomes would be even worse for eunuchs.

Be happy with masculinity, and try to keep stress low so you can enjoy it to the fullest. Being naturally in control of estrogen with good levels of androgen sensitivity and DHT truly feels awesome. I know modern life makes it difficult...
 
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Ainaga

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Sure, they explain why living to 70 is really impressive.

Are you making the case that men should contemplate castration based on that number? I would disagree.

Franko Columbu just died at 78. Stalone and Schwarzenegger seem to be doing well. It's like the mouse study...a few years this way or that.
they don't explain that either. again, they simply discovered that korean eunuchs lived longer than their intact counterparts, and suggest rightly that testosterone is a key player. granted, that's their hypothesis. but the records themselves are a given. sure, the records could be false, but that's a different issue.

hell no i'm not making that case. i'm simply, or rather the study is, calling into question that positive correlation some people nowadays claim, including some bodybuilders, between testosterone and longevity.
i wouldn't contemplate or otherwise recommend other people castration even if that meant living to 150!

i would't recommend increasing testosterone by pumping iron even if that led to longevity to someone who otherwise abhors that. nor would i recommend absolute refraining from a sport that uses excentric movements for the sake of living longer.
and how testosterone correlates with quality of life, that's a different story.
 

EustaceBagge

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i would't recommend increasing testosterone by pumping iron even if that led to longevity to someone who otherwise abhors that. nor would i recommend absolute refraining from a sport that uses excentric movements for the sake of living longer.
It seems like your trying to gaslight yourself. Any intense sport will increase testosterone, why the fixation on weightlifting? Do you think a martial art or football will not have the same effect, lmao. They just have lesser studies done as hormonal profiles in those sports are hard to measure and not as easy as doing a couple weightlifting exercises.
 
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Ainaga

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Low testosterone = low conversion to estrogen.

Low stress male with high testosterone = more conversion to DHT and general androgenicity (good)
High stress male with high testosterone = more conversion to estrogen and general stress hormones (bad)

And did the eunuch lead a normal life, with a (nagging) wife, children and hard labour, or was the eunuch some kind of priest, government official or on a spiritual journey?


It just gives credibility to the fact that being eunuch is not just being castrated, but living a different life altogether. In animals you can see what happens to eunuchs if they live a normal life, and in the wild the outcomes would be even worse for eunuchs.

Be happy with masculinity, and try to keep stress low so you can enjoy it to the fullest. Being naturally in control of estrogen with good levels of androgen sensitivity and DHT truly feels awesome. I know modern life makes it difficult...
if you read the article you would know that the researchers account for that. plenty of eunuchs had wives and children. they even suggest their bond was pretty strong. that's were other hormones come into play.

and yes, they were generally court people, but again, they lived longer than other court people :) the study says that at least.

so your study would be one comparing low stress high testosterone to low stress eunuchs. because we know that stress kills, but is it the conversion to dht that saves, as you suggest, or something else besides estrogen that is killing you?

so the lower the testosterone the lower the estrogen too? that's why you think -if you believe the study- that eunuchs lived longer? isn't it also claimed that stress reduces testosterone synthesis? does that mean lower stress too? or does stress also increase estrogen irrespective of testosterone? and isn't estrogen made in the testes, so that eunuchs already had lower levels?

so you say that castrated dogs live longer, but castrated dogs on the street would live less long?

i totally agree, masculinity is good, embrace it, yea! reduce stress, by all means that otherwise don't harm you, yes! unless you are ori horlefmeckler, in that case increase stress every day by fasting, and then induce more stress with a bomb of food at the end of the day. all for muscle and testosterone.

also, embrace life, not just longevity.
 
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Ainaga

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It seems like your trying to gaslight yourself. Any intense sport will increase testosterone, why the fixation on weightlifting? Do you think a martial art or football will not have the same effect, lmao. They just have lesser studies done as hormonal profiles in those sports are hard to measure and not as easy as doing a couple weightlifting exercises.
where is the gaslighting happening? i don't see it.

yes, it happens in all sports, and i say bodybuilding for the same reason that you, because of studies done.

no i'm not saying decrease testosterone. no i'm no saying increase testosterone. no, i'm not saying live longer. i'm saying that study suggests, and with good reason, that lower testosterone levels might account for higher longevity.

as a consolation though, they did not find the same results with italian castrati. and supposedly tenors live longer than altos. so it's not all lost.
 

EustaceBagge

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so the lower the testosterone the lower the estrogen too? that's why you think -if you believe the study- that eunuchs lived longer? isn't it also claimed that stress reduces testosterone synthesis? does that mean lower stress too? or does stress also increase estrogen irrespective of testosterone? and isn't estrogen made in the testes, so that eunuchs already had lower levels?
Stress reduces testosterone synthesis but doesn't zero it out, and most of the "reduced" synthesis is basically conversion into other hormones (mainly estrogen).

so you say that castrated dogs live longer, but castrated dogs on the street would live less long?
Castrated dogs are mostly pets, so if we compare castrated pets to non-castrated pets it would be an interesting study. Even better if we do this in nature, as hormones prepare you for your surroundings.

i totally agree, masculinity is good, embrace it, yea! reduce stress, by all means that otherwise don't harm you, yes! unless you are ori horlefmeckler, in that case increase stress every day by fasting, and then induce more stress with a bomb of food at the end of the day. all for muscle and testosterone.
Go off the internet for a while man. Low stimulus rest for 1 week and come back. I don't think 90% of the gymgoers does anything you stated there, except for losing weight which is always stressful, but then again how many gymgoers are absolutely shredded? You can absolutely increase your health by doing weightlifting.
 

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where is the gaslighting happening? i don't see it.

yes, it happens in all sports, and i say bodybuilding for the same reason that you, because of studies done.

no i'm not saying decrease testosterone. no i'm no saying increase testosterone. no, i'm not saying live longer. i'm saying that study suggests, and with good reason, that lower testosterone levels might account for higher longevity.

as a consolation though, they did not find the same results with italian castrati. and supposedly tenors live longer than altos. so it's not all lost.
It truly seems to me that you are trying to convince yourself (not us, not discussing it with us) that doing sports and optimizing your hormones (WHICH is synonymous with increasing health) is a bad thing, and that you should artificially keep testosterone low by neglecting your bodies needs (sports, health, stuff like eating meat and eggs which will help testosterone).

And why do I believe this? Reread your first post. It reeks of passive agressiveness.

Doing sports is healthy, optimizing hormones is healthy, having high testosterone is healthy. Testosterone is a double edged sword, if you stress out it will **** you up (increased hair loss, acne etc.) but if you can remain calm you will feel indestructable. Women, when calm, will be very caring and healthy, but when stressed, they will still have progesterone to back them up, we as men don't.

Of course do we live under ideal circumstances? No. So in that regard this low stress testosterone model doesn't mean much, but then again how will you cope with your stressful circumstances just by realizing testosterone is the agressor, instead of realizing it is an adaptive response meant to change the circumstances?
 
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Ainaga

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Stress reduces testosterone synthesis but doesn't zero it out, and most of the "reduced" synthesis is basically conversion into other hormones (mainly estrogen).


Castrated dogs are mostly pets, so if we compare castrated pets to non-castrated pets it would be an interesting study. Even better if we do this in nature, as hormones prepare you for your surroundings.


Go off the internet for a while man. Low stimulus rest for 1 week and come back. I don't think 90% of the gymgoers does anything you stated there, except for losing weight which is always stressful, but then again how many gymgoers are absolutely shredded? You can absolutely increase your health by doing weightlifting.
my point exactly, not castrated to non-castrated pets, but castrated to non-castrated street dogs.

i can see that as soon as you meet some resistance you resort to character assassination for lack of better arguments. how do you know how long i spend on the internet now?

of course you can increase your health by weightlifting. was that ever a question here? are we questioning health or are we questioning the relationship between testosterone and longevity?
 
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Ainaga

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It truly seems to me that you are trying to convince yourself (not us, not discussing it with us) that doing sports and optimizing your hormones (WHICH is synonymous with increasing health) is a bad thing, and that you should artificially keep testosterone low by neglecting your bodies needs (sports, health, stuff like eating meat and eggs which will help testosterone).

And why do I believe this? Reread your first post. It reeks of passive agressiveness.

Doing sports is healthy, optimizing hormones is healthy, having high testosterone is healthy. Testosterone is a double edged sword, if you stress out it will **** you up (increased hair loss, acne etc.) but if you can remain calm you will feel indestructable. Women, when calm, will be very caring and healthy, but when stressed, they will still have progesterone to back them up, we as men don't.

Of course do we live under ideal circumstances? No. So in that regard this low stress testosterone model doesn't mean much, but then again how will you cope with your stressful circumstances just by realizing testosterone is the agressor, instead of realizing it is an adaptive response meant to change the circumstances?
you make a lot of unwarranted assumptions about my personal life. you must think yourself clairvoyant or something. i love exercise and i eat what you say i don't eat. but what does my personal life have to do with that study? focus: not me, but the study.

i'm not fixated with bodybuilders or intent on putting them down. you get easily offended if you think that is passive aggressiveness.

testosterone is not an aggressor in so far as i understand it. whether low testosterone leads to higher longevity is irrelevant to one making life decisions. what is relevant is that if higher testosterone led to longevity or health, then the research on eunuchs would show that, and not the exact opposite; yes, the exact opposite, not an evening out. and i would not try to argue that they were hormonally "optimized" lacking their gonads. you want to attribute that to any of a number of things. i agree, it's possible. did the researchers do that? no, they assume it had to do with testosterone. should there be a program to lower testosterone like there is a program to increase estrogen in post-menopause women. of course not. should testosterone be demonized. of course not. and now one question that might make you twitch (judging from your response using the word 'manly'), is X more manly than Y because he has more testosterone? but what if Y does more manly things, like back off a senseless argument?
 

EustaceBagge

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for all the meat packers and pipe dreamers out there pumping iron and supplementing
This is the character assumption Ainaga, not what I said about taking a break.
you make a lot of unwarranted assumptions about my personal life. you must think yourself clairvoyant or something. i love exercise and i eat what you say i don't eat. but what does my personal life have to do with that study? focus: not me, but the study.
Taking a break from stimulation does not mean you are too much on the computer, it means you are too stimulated and that the computer is also a source of stimulation.
i'm not fixated with bodybuilders or intent on putting them down. you get easily offended if you think that is passive aggressiveness.
Peak autism, even though you will call it being a snowflake or being easily triggered. You don't "approach" people to debate, but start with:
meat packers and pipe dreamers out there pumping iron and supplementing
It's like going to a person to debate something, but namecalling them and expecting an honest discussion. Take a break, seriously. It's like your telling your bias from the getgo: Homo's are weird but lets talk about homosexuality.
is X more manly than Y because he has more testosterone? but what if Y does more manly things, like back off a senseless argument?
X is more manly than Y because he has his balls, yes. This is like saying, a trained female fighter can beat some women, but a trained male fighter can beat all women. X has no balls but can be more manly than some man, but a manly man that has balls is more manly than all eunuchs. Of course with hormones influencing all behaviors, it makes logical sense.
testosterone is not an aggressor in so far as i understand it. whether low testosterone leads to higher longevity is irrelevant to one making life decisions. what is relevant is that if higher testosterone led to longevity or health, then the research on eunuchs would show that, and not the exact opposite; yes, the exact opposite,
Research also shows thyroid and a good metabolism ages you faster and that seed oils are good for you. Doesn't mean ***t you know? Common sense? If testosterone is stress protective, and it can also aromitize into a stressor (estrogen), then it can be either very healthy or very unhealthy. "Research" is only "research" if it truly tests one thing, and does not have a lot of factors unaccounted for, and does not have an agenda behind it.

A modern male that has low testosterone has low testosterone for a reason. And it is not to live longer. That which stressess them out lowers their testosterone. So to be healthy, you need testosterone, to have testosterone, you need to be healthy.

If you now remove the gonads, you can be healthier if all the testosterone was becoming a stressor. Otherwise how can testosterone, an anti-cortisol, stress reducing, and metabolism boosting pro thyroid substance be anti-longevity?
 
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