General Observations About Taking Thyroid - Thoughts Appreciated

[Philomath]

Have you used any of these brands? Do they always come with thyroid intact in these brands?

I've found one butcher with an unreliable source of organic chicken necks, which I prefer and buy when they have them. If I don't get enough of those I just buy regular non-organic ones from cheap bulk butcher or supermarket.
I boil up lots at once for a couple of hours, pour off stock, mash the necks and add more water for a second shorter boiling to get more out of them. I remove as much of the fat as possible from the stock, and freeze it in ice cube trays so I can take a little at a time twice a day for 2-4 weeks.
Don't know what you can get where you are.

Thanks for this tip!! There is an organic local butcher I will have to check with then - I don't recall if they carry chickens, but if they do, I'm sure they will have the necks!! I actually love chicken broth the most, so if I can get necks, this is a great alternative to thyroid supplementation. I wonder if roasting the chicken necks lightly first will help them the thyroid to dissipate more? It definitely helps with gelatin release.....

Chicken neck sources:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/3214326003 ... =82&chn=ps

http://www.amazon.com/Fresh-Is-Best-Fre ... B007TKTPAU

http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/ ... 65009.aspx

http://Www.grasslandbeef.com

I have not used any of these products. Just thought I'd list some options to investigate.

 

[ilovethesea]

Maybe you need more T3 than the standard 4:1 ratio. Have you ever tried 3:1 or 2:1? I take 2:1 right now and like it much better than the 4:1. I try to take most of my T4 at night and split up my T3 throughout the day.

I definitely felt the plateau you describe when I first started experimenting (when I first discovered Ray). This was the 1st winter where I didn't have that problem - could be the higher T3, higher dose overall or that I fixed my diet to be able to handle the thyroid finally (i.e. more calories, more sugar, liver, etc).

Also your thyroid needs increase 4x in the winter so it's to be expected that you'll have issues with your dose during this time.

Have you ever had RT3 tested?

 

[Sheila]

Lindsay
Interesting observations about the fluid retention you experienced, I have found the Bs help here, especially B1, smidge of B6. Given the B1 involvement, I suggest liver function is getting taxed, maybe oestrogen flushed out or at least, that is my conclusion to date.
Best
Sheila

 

[answersfound]

Maybe you need more T3 than the standard 4:1 ratio. Have you ever tried 3:1 or 2:1? I take 2:1 right now and like it much better than the 4:1. I try to take most of my T4 at night and split up my T3 throughout the day.

I definitely felt the plateau you describe when I first started experimenting (when I first discovered Ray). This was the 1st winter where I didn't have that problem - could be the higher T3, higher dose overall or that I fixed my diet to be able to handle the thyroid finally (i.e. more calories, more sugar, liver, etc).

Also your thyroid needs increase 4x in the winter so it's to be expected that you'll have issues with your dose during this time.

Have you ever had RT3 tested?

:1

 

[lindsay]

Maybe you need more T3 than the standard 4:1 ratio. Have you ever tried 3:1 or 2:1? I take 2:1 right now and like it much better than the 4:1. I try to take most of my T4 at night and split up my T3 throughout the day.

I definitely felt the plateau you describe when I first started experimenting (when I first discovered Ray). This was the 1st winter where I didn't have that problem - could be the higher T3, higher dose overall or that I fixed my diet to be able to handle the thyroid finally (i.e. more calories, more sugar, liver, etc).

Also your thyroid needs increase 4x in the winter so it's to be expected that you'll have issues with your dose during this time.

Have you ever had RT3 tested?

Yes - I have changed my dosage and instead of taking 2 grains of Cynoplus, I take 1 grain and cytomel throughout the day as needed. It's helped a lot, so I'm glad I'm finally able to handle it without adrenaline rushes. Fluid retention comes and goes, but has gotten better.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[lindsay]

Lindsay
Interesting observations about the fluid retention you experienced, I have found the Bs help here, especially B1, smidge of B6. Given the B1 involvement, I suggest liver function is getting taxed, maybe oestrogen flushed out or at least, that is my conclusion to date.
Best
Sheila

Thanks for the B1 tip!! I have a whole bottle at home that I rarely touch. Will dig into it! In general, things have gotten much better as I upped my protein intake - I have found that I do well with shellfish, some tuna and lots of cheese. Also, I started taking Ox Bile, which seems to help a lot. But I don't take B1 all the time - will definitely try it!! Thank you!

 

[Sheila]

Dear Lindsay
Glad to be of assistance.
Would be interested in your feedback on B1 at 100mg 1-2 x a day, I have found this one more helpful with female stuff than I ever anticipated. Also great against procrastination, which I guess is also ultimately a liver thing. Improvements with Ox bile would make sense if your liver is taxed. It used to be more popular until the cheaper Aspergillus-derived 'vegetable' enzymes came on the market. Aspergillus is the same genus that produces aflatoxin, always worth remembering.....do hope they've excluded all possibility of toxins in production...
Sheila

 

[lindsay]

Dear Lindsay
Glad to be of assistance.
Would be interested in your feedback on B1 at 100mg 1-2 x a day, I have found this one more helpful with female stuff than I ever anticipated. Also great against procrastination, which I guess is also ultimately a liver thing. Improvements with Ox bile would make sense if your liver is taxed. It used to be more popular until the cheaper Aspergillus-derived 'vegetable' enzymes came on the market. Aspergillus is the same genus that produces aflatoxin, always worth remembering.....do hope they've excluded all possibility of toxins in production...
Sheila

I will add the B1 then to my regimen. I've cut my vitamin intake down to K2 and vitamin E. Now I am taking more of them so that my knee will heel faster - or that's the hope. The Ox Bile is good for me because I had my gallbladder removed about 9 years ago and have found protein is really difficult for me to digest. Especially beef and lamb when they are well cooked. I do better with more rare/raw meats. Ox Bile has allowed me to have easier digestion for sure. What brand of B1 do you use? I have Swanson on hand currently - 100 mg. capsules.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Hi lindsay...I'm one that MUST take B-1 daily else I just don't feel optimal. I have the Swanson 100 mg. and take three a day without fail, love love love B-1. I also have pure bulk powder form, which doesn't taste so good.

This winter has been the first ever, where I experienced getting too much thyroid medication. I have been on thyroid meds for 15 years: first tried Synthroid briefly, then on to Levoxyl for years. I finally got on Armour and liked that better, but have always been unknowingly under medicated. I switched to Cynoplus a year ago and liked it much better. I gradually raised the dose until I finally felt normal (and labs were more in range with Peat's suggestions).

However, some time around the Christmas I noticed some strange symptoms: my hair was shedding more than usual, my muscles felt weak and would tremor slightly. Like I would go to lift a stack of dinner plates to put in the cupboard and my arms had NO strength, or I would do a deep knee bend to get into the clothes dryer and my thighs would quiver and feel weak. I was also insanely hungry, but busier than usual so I didn't really notice that too much. I had a couple of looser BM's too, but brushed that off as holiday over indulgence and eating unfamiliar foods or something...

At first I thought I needed MORE thyroid meds since it was the dead of winter, but after researching further, I came to the conclusion that I might be getting too much medication. Having never been HYPERthyroid in 15 years of medication I just didn't know what to expect.

I never had the typical heart palps or sweating that I had read about, but I also didn't have time to go get labs done, so I started tapering my meds down over the course of January and quit them altogether the first week in February. The hair shedding stopped, muscle weakness and tremor completely disappeared and I felt surprisingly better, even tho I didn't feel poorly before.

It's been a month now and I'm pretty sure all the medication has cleared my system. I haven't done a lot of studying on the subject yet, but just wondering about that whole Reverse T3 thing and the possibility of building a resistance to thyroid medication. I think I"m one that needs less T4 for sure, maybe my liver got better at converting it? I just don't know.

One interesting thing that I noticed is that my body seems to be far more reactive to the carbs I eat for producing heat. I mean, before when I was on a high dose (one a whole Cynoplus per day) my temps were good and I achieved 98.6 everyday, but I rarely ever got warmer than that. I only recall one time last spring hitting 99.1, I was so excited because it felt so nice. Never happened again or if it did it was rare and fleeting.

The weird thing is now I regularly EXCEED that...it's as if the rate limiting factor has been lifted. It's only been a month off meds, but it's not unusual for me to 99.2 or 99.3 and stay there until nearly BEDTIME especially if I eat lots of sugar. Sometimes I get really busy and can't stop to eat and my hands/feet will suddenly get cold, then I realize I must be hungry. As soon as I eat (or just drink something sweet) they warm up again. Not since I was very young have I had this kind of instant reactive feedback, I had forgotten all about it. When I was less than 10 years old or so, I remember being just too busy playing to stop and eat and it wasn't until I would get quite cold that I would stop to eat. I ate tons of sugar and fruit as a kid.

This is sort of uncharted territory for me as an adult and I don't know if it's "normal" to be so reactive at my age, anyone know? I don't feel bad when it occurs, I just get cold hands and feet (and sometimes a mild headache that disappears immediately upon drinking something sweet). Would it be healthier to try to always stay perfectly even? Problem is I tend to get involved/focused with a project and end up going for hours and hours without thinking about it. I am making a conscious effort to have juice/coke/sugar coffee with me at all times. I prefer liquids since they're fast, easy and convenient, plus I seem to be hotter than hell lately.

I'll continue to monitor my temps and pulse and eventually will go in for labwork (maybe), it's been close to a year since I had that done ....kinda really HATE needles tho. Sorry for the long post...

 

[lindsay]

Hi lindsay...I'm one that MUST take B-1 daily else I just don't feel optimal. I have the Swanson 100 mg. and take three a day without fail, love love love B-1. I also have pure bulk powder form, which doesn't taste so good.

This winter has been the first ever, where I experienced getting too much thyroid medication. I have been on thyroid meds for 15 years: first tried Synthroid briefly, then on to Levoxyl for years. I finally got on Armour and liked that better, but have always been unknowingly under medicated. I switched to Cynoplus a year ago and liked it much better. I gradually raised the dose until I finally felt normal (and labs were more in range with Peat's suggestions).

However, some time around the Christmas I noticed some strange symptoms: my hair was shedding more than usual, my muscles felt weak and would tremor slightly. Like I would go to lift a stack of dinner plates to put in the cupboard and my arms had NO strength, or I would do a deep knee bend to get into the clothes dryer and my thighs would quiver and feel weak. I was also insanely hungry, but busier than usual so I didn't really notice that too much. I had a couple of looser BM's too, but brushed that off as holiday over indulgence and eating unfamiliar foods or something...

At first I thought I needed MORE thyroid meds since it was the dead of winter, but after researching further, I came to the conclusion that I might be getting too much medication. Having never been HYPERthyroid in 15 years of medication I just didn't know what to expect.

I never had the typical heart palps or sweating that I had read about, but I also didn't have time to go get labs done, so I started tapering my meds down over the course of January and quit them altogether the first week in February. The hair shedding stopped, muscle weakness and tremor completely disappeared and I felt surprisingly better, even tho I didn't feel poorly before.

It's been a month now and I'm pretty sure all the medication has cleared my system. I haven't done a lot of studying on the subject yet, but just wondering about that whole Reverse T3 thing and the possibility of building a resistance to thyroid medication. I think I"m one that needs less T4 for sure, maybe my liver got better at converting it? I just don't know.

One interesting thing that I noticed is that my body seems to be far more reactive to the carbs I eat for producing heat. I mean, before when I was on a high dose (one a whole Cynoplus per day) my temps were good and I achieved 98.6 everyday, but I rarely ever got warmer than that. I only recall one time last spring hitting 99.1, I was so excited because it felt so nice. Never happened again or if it did it was rare and fleeting.

The weird thing is now I regularly EXCEED that...it's as if the rate limiting factor has been lifted. It's only been a month off meds, but it's not unusual for me to 99.2 or 99.3 and stay there until nearly BEDTIME especially if I eat lots of sugar. Sometimes I get really busy and can't stop to eat and my hands/feet will suddenly get cold, then I realize I must be hungry. As soon as I eat (or just drink something sweet) they warm up again. Not since I was very young have I had this kind of instant reactive feedback, I had forgotten all about it. When I was less than 10 years old or so, I remember being just too busy playing to stop and eat and it wasn't until I would get quite cold that I would stop to eat. I ate tons of sugar and fruit as a kid.

This is sort of uncharted territory for me as an adult and I don't know if it's "normal" to be so reactive at my age, anyone know? I don't feel bad when it occurs, I just get cold hands and feet (and sometimes a mild headache that disappears immediately upon drinking something sweet). Would it be healthier to try to always stay perfectly even? Problem is I tend to get involved/focused with a project and end up going for hours and hours without thinking about it. I am making a conscious effort to have juice/coke/sugar coffee with me at all times. I prefer liquids since they're fast, easy and convenient, plus I seem to be hotter than hell lately.

I'll continue to monitor my temps and pulse and eventually will go in for labwork (maybe), it's been close to a year since I had that done ....kinda really HATE needles tho. Sorry for the long post...

Thank you for your experience BigPeatowski!! It always helps to hear from others what they've noticed. When my Cynoplus arrived, I started going back up to my normal dose and then realized, why am I doing that? I've been feeling fine without it and using mostly Cytomel, but a little does help. That first 1/4 tablet in the morning makes a world of difference for me. Especially with my hurt knee, it really helps the morning swelling to go down and fluid balance to stay in check. Beyond that, I nibble on some T3 throughout the day and sometimes go half the day without taking anything and feeling fine. And then I take another 1/4 Cynoplus at night. I think when spring is finally here, I will be able to see how I do off the meds. I've just had so many life stresses the past few years, it's difficult on my own. And most importantly, I still haven't started menstruating again. That was my main reason for starting thyroid.

However, the cold hands thing is something I've noticed immediately when my meds wear off. I haven't tried eating sugar so much as eating, in general. Usually by the point that my hands get cold, I'm ready for some food in my belly :) And truth be told, I've never been a fan of the higher body temps. Yes, there are certain things that feel better about it, but for me higher temps have been kind of like living in a hot humid climate all the time that just makes you feel icky and gross. Does that make sense? With warmer temps on more Cynoplus, I would usually deal more with bloating and fluid retention, issues with bowel movements, etc. Not to mention, swollen red fingers, which I hate. Since I've lowered my dosing and switched to a T4 more T3 combo, I've had less of that and more cold hands and feet, but it's not uncomfortable. Also, that huge wart on my finger has finally started to diminish and I have high hopes that in another month it will be gone - which I hope is a good sign as to how my liver is functioning.

I've also been eating a lot more fish protein. For some reason I've been craving sushi for the past couple of months and eating it regularly, along with some shellfish. Fish and cheese have become my primary protein sources and I'm feeling much better as a result because I can digest both pretty well - they have much less fat than most meats, so I decided to not care about the PUFA.

So I must ask you, how do you feel all around off the meds? (temps and pulse aside)? I never take my temperature - for me, I gauge how I am via my digestion, which has gotten better taking more T3 and less T4. Occasionally I'll pick up the thermometer and I am usually above 98 F, but I should probably get into the habit of doing that more often. Just need to keep it on me :)

Anyhow, I'd be curious to see how you feel all around!! Honestly, the thing that has helped my health the most in the past two years is doing my photo project. I've stopped thinking and worrying about what's going on in my body and started tuning in with my creative side and I feel better actually. I think engaging my brain in something artistic has really helped me get through my days - I don't feel so depressed and while I sometimes don't want to take a photo (or create a photo) every single day, it's very rewarding. I feel excited to try new things and don't feel stuck in a rut like I have the past couple of years. I haven't been on the forums much lately, as a result. So, I think that come spring - and when my knee is completely healed - I will try to stop taking thyroid and just try living and doing the things I enjoy. Like when I was a kid and healthy :) The only bad thing I've noticed is that I definitely have the OCD artist mentality in my brain and I have to keep that in check so it doesn't stress me out!

Thanks again for your thoughts and now I apologize for writing such a long answer!

 

[tara]

Hi tbp,
I wonder if you are now reaping the benefits of limiting PUFAs for long enough that they are not suppressing your metabolism, and that is why you now need less Thyroid supps? Just a speculaton that came to mind reading your report. That would be a nice explanation if it were true.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

So I must ask you, how do you feel all around off the meds? (temps and pulse aside)? I never take my temperature - for me, I gauge how I am via my digestion, which has gotten better taking more T3 and less T4. Occasionally I'll pick up the thermometer and I am usually above 98 F, but I should probably get into the habit of doing that more often. Just need to keep it on me :)

So far so good...I experienced some days of whacked out digestion, but that was due to taking antibiotics (gave me extreme diarrhea for over a week until I took an anti-fungal)....closely monitoring my digestion for sure tho and I do keep a a thermometer in my purse, cuz I'm a freak that way. I have had more energy this winter than I have in many many years, so YES!!! The creative juices are flowing...you're so right about that! I accepted the OCD artistic mentality as an integral part of my personality years ago....It's just who I am, so I've learned to embrace it, but I do have to actively manage the crazy-making

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Hi tbp,
I wonder if you are now reaping the benefits of limiting PUFAs for long enough that they are not suppressing your metabolism, and that is why you now need less Thyroid supps? Just a speculaton that came to mind reading your report. That would be a nice explanation if it were true.

Hi tara...that would be an AWESOME explanation. I guess only time will tell...

I have only been able to come off thyroid meds one other time in my life and that was after losing close to 80 pounds through a very low calorie/zero fat diet with my doctor. She had reduced my medication based on labwork, and I eventually went off all meds on my own since I was on such a tiny dose. Unfortunately, in order to maintain the weight loss she had me transition to the low-carb paleo diet. After a year of eating no sugar/very little fruit and TONS of PUFA, I had to go back on Armour. I continued to restrict and even got into intermittent fasting yet continued to slowly gain weight while becoming colder and more depressed than I'd ever been. Took me a long time to admit that the high fat low-carb way of eating was not working.

My theory was that the weight loss had significantly reduced my estrogen dominance and that had taken an enormous burden off of my thyroid gland and liver. My second attempt at fat loss, which I did on my own with NO doctor (last summer) seems to have triggered the same response in my body, only this time I did it in a severely PUFA restricted manner....which seems to made all the difference, especially temperature-wise.

 

[Sheila]

Dear Lindsay, regarding B1 type.
I've used Blue Bonnet 100mg. Intending to use Swanson next.
I have a vague idea that when NDT seems to hit a brick wall wrt response B vits and mag are of issue.
I second The Big P's love of thiamine, it makes my world brighter in many ways.
Sheila

 

[Birdie]

Lindsay thank you for the reminder to check my Cynoplus order.
I see that it arrived in LA this morning.
On it's way to the Pac NW, then.
I ordered March 20 and sent the check soon after that.
Hope you got yours.