Phlebotomy reduces cancer risk by 37% in patients with peripheral arterial disease

[Jamsey]

Decreased Cancer Risk After Iron Reduction in Patients With Peripheral Arterial Disease: Results From a Randomized Trial

AbstractBackground. Excess iron has been implicated in cancer risk through increased iron-catalyzed free radical–mediated oxidative stress.Methods. A multicente

academic.oup.com

“Analysis showed a 37% reduction in overall cancer incidence with iron reduction and reduced cancer-specific and all-cause mortality among patients who developed cancer in the iron reduction arm compared with those in the control arm.”

“Findings from this study support the hypothesis that ambient levels of body iron stores represented by the serum ferritin level are associated with cancer risk and that lowering iron levels reduces cancer risk.”

“In this study, iron reduction appeared to begin reducing cancer risk relatively soon (within 6 months) after randomization. This timing presumably reflects an effect on incipient malignant disease and is consistent with the observation that increased risk of malignancy following blood transfusion is evident within 6 months ( 16 )”

“A 6-month phlebotomy schedule appears adequate for maintaining low-risk ferritin levels.”

“Thus, iron deficiency may exist when ferritin levels decline to less than about 12 ng/mL, whereas ferrotoxic disease may occur with levels greater than about 50 ng/mL ( 1 , 23 ). However, threshold levels of body iron capable of contributing to disease risk may vary according to the disease in question, the antioxidant status of the individual, and other factors.”

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Ray Peat agrees with this…

“I reviewed the many things in our environment that are known to suppress immunity, and which have become increasingly prevalent in our environment--unsaturated vegetable oils, ferrous iron and carrageenan in our foods, lead in air, food, and water, exposure to medical, military, and industrial ionizing radiation, vaccinations, pesticides, chlorinated hydrocarbons, nitric oxide (smog and medications) and oral contraceptives and environmental estrogens, in particular.” -Ray Peat

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

“Iron is a potentially toxic heavy metal. In excess, it can cause cancer, heart disease, and other illnesses.” -Ray Peat

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

“In the 1960s the World Health Organization found that when iron supplements were given to anemic people in Africa, there was a great increase in the death rate from infectious diseases, especially malaria. Around the same time, research began to show that the regulation of iron is a central function of the immune system, and that this seems to have evolved because iron is a basic requirement for the survival and growth of cells of all types, including bacteria, parasites, and cancer.” -Ray Peat

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

“For about 50 years, it has been known that blood transfusions damage immunity, and excess iron has been suspected to be one of the causes for this. People who regularly donate blood, on the other hand, have often been found to be healthier than non-donors, and healthier than they were before they began donating.” -Ray Peat

 

[Clyde]

Thank you for posting this. Human, blinded and from a quality journal.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Thank you for posting this. Human, blinded and from a quality journal.

Happy to be of service!

 

[Clyde]

This paper was an attempt to salvage a meaning benefit from their very expensive study imo.

Decreased Cancer Risk After Iron Reduction in Patients With Peripheral Arterial Disease: Results From a Randomized Trial

"Although this clinical trial was designed as a cardiovascular disease study, it provided a setting for controlled, prospective collection of data on risk of new malignancy."

The original study:

Reduction of iron stores and cardiovascular outcomes in patients with peripheral arterial disease: a randomized controlled trial​

Results: There were no significant differences between treatment groups for the primary or secondary study end points. All-cause deaths occurred in 148 patients (23%) in the control group and in 125 (20%) in the iron-reduction group (hazard ratio (HR), 0.85; 95% confidence interval (CI), 0.67-1.08; P = .17).

I believe the results for treating peripheral artery disease were unsuccessful and there is actually a higher all cause mortality. But they were able to find this interesting outcome within the data of fewer cancers and that subgroup had a lower all-cause cancer mortality.

But if you don't have cancer, you want to know if phlebotomy extended or shortened the life of the broader group and especially if you have peripheral artery disease and it didn't. Just like statins lower certain cardiovascular outcomes but almost never help people live longer.

There may be side effects to maintaining artificially low ferritin levels (like drugs have side effects) while it's hard to make solid case it will increase health or lifespan unless you want to rely on associational data with a healthy user bias. And that data isn't for people intentionally maintaining low ferritin levels. People doing that are guessing it will help them as far as I can tell.

 

[LadyRae]

This paper was an attempt to salvage a meaning benefit from their very expensive study imo.




The original study:

I believe the results for treating peripheral artery disease were unsuccessful and there is actually a higher all cause mortality. But they were able to find this interesting outcome within the data of fewer cancers and that subgroup had a lower all-cause cancer mortality.

But if you don't have cancer, you want to know if phlebotomy extended or shortened the life of the broader group and especially if you have peripheral artery disease and it didn't. Just like statins lower certain cardiovascular outcomes but almost never help people live longer.

There may be side effects to maintaining artificially low ferritin levels (like drugs have side effects) while it's hard to make solid case it will increase health or lifespan unless you want to rely on associational data with a healthy user bias. And that data isn't for people intentionally maintaining low ferritin levels. People doing that are guessing it will help them as far as I can tell.

Thank you for posting this. Human, blinded and from a quality journal.

It seems you revisited this paper after your first comment on the 8th? I guess I need to take a class- "sorting out medical publications"

 

[Clyde]

It seems you revisited this paper after your first comment on the 8th? I guess I need to take a class- "sorting out medical publications"

Hi Rae,


It's a very good human study as far as I can tell (about 1200 people) but you would die sooner based on the data from the original paper. It's useful data but when I first saw it I wanted to rush out and give blood and now I've lost my enthusiasm.

It's still interesting that it may have prevented and reduced death from cancer but then people died of other things so I'm not sure it mattered.

A post for the Original paper could be "Phlebotomy shortens lifespan." (but only by a few percent and only if you have peripheral vascular disease)

Unfortunately people like us get manipulated in all directions at all times. It's an information war.

 

[LadyRae]

Hi Rae,

It's a very good human study as far as I can tell but you would die sooner based on the data from the original paper.

It's still interesting that it may have prevented and reduced death from cancer but then people died of other things so I'm not sure it mattered. It's mostly over my head. I don't want to suggest I have a really good understanding of all this stuff.

A post for the Original paper could be "Phlebotomy shortens lifespan." (but only by a few percent and only if you have peripheral vascular disease)

Interesting, thanks. I have been considering beginning to give blood, even though at 45 I have regular cycles....some people (Josh Rubin) don't think menstruating is enough ...

I suppose the next time one of my kids' school's blood drives calls me, I could give it a go and see how I feel after...

 

[cremes]

I'm definitely going to start giving blood again. I had to check my local blood donation place to confirm they'll take my blood even with my prescription meds (beta blocker and anti-thrombotic from my heart attack). They will!

Since every bit of commercial flour in the US is iron fortified, we have much more than we need. I want to get rid of it. Regular blood letting sounds like a good idea.

 

[Jamsey]

This paper was an attempt to salvage a meaning benefit from their very expensive study imo.




The original study:

I believe the results for treating peripheral artery disease were unsuccessful and there is actually a higher all cause mortality. But they were able to find this interesting outcome within the data of fewer cancers and that subgroup had a lower all-cause cancer mortality.

But if you don't have cancer, you want to know if phlebotomy extended or shortened the life of the broader group and especially if you have peripheral artery disease and it didn't. Just like statins lower certain cardiovascular outcomes but almost never help people live longer.

There may be side effects to maintaining artificially low ferritin levels (like drugs have side effects) while it's hard to make solid case it will increase health or lifespan unless you want to rely on associational data with a healthy user bias. And that data isn't for people intentionally maintaining low ferritin levels. People doing that are guessing it will help them as far as I can tell.

I read what you claimed and I’m confused. When I read the original paper you linked
Reduction of Iron Stores and Cardiovascular Outcomes in Patients With Peripheral Arterial Disease,
I did not find a higher all cause mortality. If you look at table 2, in the iron reduction group there is 19.7% all cause mortality vs 23.1% in the control group. Also, for the secondary endpoint(Death + Non Fatal MI and Stroke), there is 28.3% rate in iron reduction group vs 32% in the control group. While I agree that the study I posted is probably an attempt to salvage a non significant finding in the peripheral arterial disease study, I did not find that your claim of increased all cause mortality is shown in this study. If I am wrong, please point to where in that study it shows that.

 

[Clyde]

I read what you claimed and I’m confused.

You should be confused because I have it backwards. Back to scheduling a phlebotomy :). This stuff makes my head spin. A shame I can't delete posts.

Results: There were no significant differences between treatment groups for the primary or secondary study end points. All-cause deaths occurred in 148 patients (23%) in the control group and in 125 (20%) in the iron-reduction group (hazard ratio (HR), 0.85; 95% confidence interval (CI), 0.67-1.08; P = .17). Death plus nonfatal myocardial infarction and stroke occurred in 205 patients (32%) in the control group and in 180 (28%) in the iron-reduction group (HR, 0.88; 95% CI, 0.72-1.07; P = .20).

Thanks again Jamsey.

 

[Jamsey]

You should be confused because I have it backwards. Back to scheduling a phlebotomy :). This stuff makes my head spin. A shame I can't delete posts.

Results: There were no significant differences between treatment groups for the primary or secondary study end points. All-cause deaths occurred in 148 patients (23%) in the control group and in 125 (20%) in the iron-reduction group (hazard ratio (HR), 0.85; 95% confidence interval (CI), 0.67-1.08; P = .17). Death plus nonfatal myocardial infarction and stroke occurred in 205 patients (32%) in the control group and in 180 (28%) in the iron-reduction group (HR, 0.88; 95% CI, 0.72-1.07; P = .20).

Thanks again Jamsey.

No worries! Skepticism and questioning is always welcome

 

[LadyRae]

You should be confused because I have it backwards. Back to scheduling a phlebotomy :). This stuff makes my head spin. A shame I can't delete posts.

Results: There were no significant differences between treatment groups for the primary or secondary study end points. All-cause deaths occurred in 148 patients (23%) in the control group and in 125 (20%) in the iron-reduction group (hazard ratio (HR), 0.85; 95% confidence interval (CI), 0.67-1.08; P = .17). Death plus nonfatal myocardial infarction and stroke occurred in 205 patients (32%) in the control group and in 180 (28%) in the iron-reduction group (HR, 0.88; 95% CI, 0.72-1.07; P = .20).

Thanks again Jamsey.

Oh gosh! Me too then !

Thank guys