Serotonin Removal?

narouz · Sep 22, 2012

Peatarian said:

"Then there is always the danger that it might be converted to T3 all at once when using...'

This stuff...yeah...T3...
I can't get completely aboard intense, sudden thyroid sup use.
It seems very intricate to me.
I don't think it's as simple as raising thyroid,
like you're setting your thermostat.
I think a lot of things have to happen before more thyroid can do what it should....

peatarian · Sep 23, 2012

Yes, that's how I experience it. Instead of being the first thing I get right it's the only which still doesn't always work quite as it should.

peatarian · Oct 19, 2012

bradley said:
Peatarian, how much Naltrexone were you taking? Morning or night?

Obviously you don't get my PM. I have been using 4g in the morning before breakfast and 4g in the evening before going to bed.
I still use it sometimes when the weather troubles me or I feel sick.

Birdie · Nov 11, 2012

peatarian said:
Birdie said:

I've been using a dropper to measure my naltrexone. Not nearly as accurate. The syringe is a good idea. I started with 1.5 mg and am up to almost 3 mg. My understanding is that the dose can vary from person to person. I'm using it for Fibromyalgia. I seem to recall a 3.5 mg dose recommended for that. Perhaps because I've not worked up to 3.5 mg yet, I've noticed only a small improvement. It is so hard to judge these things. When I get to the right dose, then, I can judge better whether it is helping. But, I will assume that my serotonin is lowered at any rate.

Click to expand...

'There are people who advocate the use of tryptophan supplementation or other means to increase serotonin in the tissues as a treatment for the fibromyalgia syndrome, but the evidence increasingly suggests that excessive serotonin, interfering with muscle mitochondria, is a major factor in the development of that syndrome.'

'Muscle catabolism also releases a large amount of cysteine, and cysteine, methionine, and tryptophan suppress thyroid function.'

'Malnutrition, and specifically protein deficiency, produces an inflammatory state that involves extreme serotonin dominance. Stress or malnutrition prenatally or in infancy leads to extreme serotonin dominance in adulthood. Other functions of tryptophan are reduced, as more of it is turned into serotonin.'
(from Ray Peat http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/trypt ... ging.shtml)

'Later, in a more mature person, chronically fatigued and painful muscles that at one time would have been diagnosed as rheumatism, may be diagnosed as fibromyalgia. Most doctors are reluctant to prescribe thyroid supplements for the problem, but the association of elevated prolactin with the muscle disorder is now generally recognized.'

'Since aldosterone contributes to fibrosis of the heart and kidneys (nephrosclerosis), progesterone, the "antifibromatogenic steroid," should be helpful for those problems that have been considered irreversible.'

'Pregnenolone can sometimes very quickly allow swollen tissues to release their water. This function is probably closely related to its antifibromatogenic function, since swelling and leaking set the stage for fibrosis.'

Birdie, I'm sure you've already read the quotes above but just to make sure: you are using thyroid and pregnenolone, if you are a woman progest-e-complex and eating enough protein during the day? Lots of sugar will probably help you, too and lots of salt will help your adrenal gland recover. Progesterone would enlarge your thyroid gland and by that increase your immune system. If you have any way of getting ondansetrone I would highly recommend it. I never noticed immediate effects of nalexone on serotonin but the effects of ondansetrone where amazing and immediate. I am not aware of any severe side effects. As I said before you shouldn't stop using ondansetrone at once but decrease the dosage slowly.

What might also help you is taking baths with aspirin in the water. I usually use 10 times 500 mg in a bathtub. It was and is used to treat rheuma patients.

Somehow, this is the first time I've read this. Must have forgotten to press the "let me know if there is a reply" button. Thank you,p. I copied this out and sent it to my husband. My brain fog is big so I need his help. But, I see that I must increase protein.

I can only handle a half an egg for bkfst. That is with fruit, oj, and bacon, and Co and butter. Do have gelatin in egg.. Always had this trouble. I've had trouble using enough milk. It's been unappetizing.

Oh, the LDN. I'll have to study what you've said. My impression from reading here, is that RP says it raises estrogen... And that you only use it as needed rather than regularly. I have followed the wrong advice and have been using 3.5 mg/day. At bedtime. The LDN has probably caused my loss of desire for milk, also.

I can't thank you enough.

Answers to peatarian's other questions:
I have been using thyroid for 18 years. Switched from Armour to Cynoplus/Cynomel this year.
I use 80mg pregnenolone/day.
I use progest-E.. 4 dr bedtime, some during day. More since I read that you (I think) mentioned sometimes using an olive sized drop. I haven't used that big a drop but made my drops larger.

peatarian · Nov 11, 2012

Nonono, birdie - LDN does not raise estrogen.
It lowers endorphins. But this is not the issue right now.
Try using it in the morning. Use 4.5 mg and see if anything changes.
If it doesn't stop using it. The benefits should be clear after a week. If you don't see them, they are not there.
Please try the CO2 bag. I am sure it will help you. What about bag breathing and sugar? You do that?
The egg will lower your blood sugar. Is that why you can't eat it?
Sorry, I have to go again but I'll answer as soon as I can.
Be well!

peatarian · Nov 11, 2012

p.s. careful about the bacon! That's PUFA. You should fry it in a pan until the fat is out of it. After removing the fat, add coconut oil and fry it again. It's too much trouble for me so I don't do that a lot.

bradley · Nov 11, 2012

Peatarian, I've been taking LDN at night. What's the benefit of taking it in the morning? Like you i think it just helps me be more resilient in stressful times. I think it has also been helping my hypothalamic pituitary axis.

Also, was is the CO2 bag? Different from bag breathing?

THx!
Brad

peatarian said:
Nonono, birdie - LDN does not raise estrogen.
It lowers endorphins. But this is not the issue right now.
Try using it in the morning. Use 4.5 mg and see if anything changes.
If it doesn't stop using it. The benefits should be clear after a week. If you don't see them, they are not there.
Please try the CO2 bag. I am sure it will help you. What about bag breathing and sugar? You do that?
The egg will lower your blood sugar. Is that why you can't eat it?
Sorry, I have to go again but I'll answer as soon as I can.
Be well!

Birdie · Nov 11, 2012

peatarian said:
p.s. careful about the bacon! That's PUFA. You should fry it in a pan until the fat is out of it. After removing the fat, add coconut oil and fry it again. It's too much trouble for me so I don't do that a lot.

Yes, I do it!! I've been using bacon less often, but when I do.... I'm so good.. even dry it with paper towels. It is trouble, so I'm cutting down.

peatarian · Nov 11, 2012

bradley said:
Peatarian, I've been taking LDN at night. What's the benefit of taking it in the morning? Like you i think it just helps me be more resilient in stressful times. I think it has also been helping my hypothalamic pituitary axis.

Also, was is the CO2 bag? Different from bag breathing?

THx!
Brad

Yes, you'll find the CO2 bag in the sauna thread. I explained it there.
LDN will not lower your appetite. The only known side effect is that it causes trouble falling asleep or staying asleep. It's rare but it happens. That's why using it in the morning (with sugar) is sometimes better. Of course if there is no trouble sleeping it's more beneficial at night, lowering stress hormones.
If it's helping you, keep using it. But use the proper dosage 4.5 mg. It's shown in every study to be the best dosage.

Birdie · Nov 11, 2012

peatarian said:
Nonono, birdie - LDN does not raise estrogen.
It lowers endorphins. But this is not the issue right now.
Try using it in the morning. Use 4.5 mg and see if anything changes.
If it doesn't stop using it. The benefits should be clear after a week. If you don't see them, they are not there.
Please try the CO2 bag. I am sure it will help you. What about bag breathing and sugar? You do that?
The egg will lower your blood sugar. Is that why you can't eat it?
Sorry, I have to go again but I'll answer as soon as I can.
Be well!

Yes, the egg lowers my blood sugar. It requires a lot of oj and fruit to balance, if it does ever balance. We make eggs every morning. I used to eat 2 or 3, but now am down to 1/2. They cause rapid heart beat and breathlessness. I make a flat omelette with 3 tsp gelatin and milk. Cook in much CO + butter. Have ~2oz coffee with milk after or with it, also. Tea with milk before bkfst when I do my light exercise/stretch routine.

Thank you. Will go to Sauna Thread.

j. · Nov 11, 2012

Birdie said:
They cause rapid heart beat and breathlessness.

Do you get that reaction if you eat only the yolk, or only the white?

Birdie · Nov 11, 2012

j. said:
Birdie said:

They cause rapid heart beat and breathlessness.

Click to expand...

Do you get that reaction if you eat only the yolk, or only the white?

I wouldn't want to eat only the white. I've only tried 1/2 an egg, not either or... I imagine it is the yolk. Why do you ask that? I mean, how would it help the blood sugar if we knew which part of the egg effected it? Perhaps, if the white caused it that would help, since it's not as nutritious?

j. · Nov 11, 2012

Birdie said:
I wouldn't want to eat only the white. I've only tried 1/2 an egg, not either or... I imagine it is the yolk. Why do you ask that? I mean, how would it help the blood sugar if we knew which part of the egg effected it? Perhaps, if the white caused it that would help, since it's not as nutritious?

I thought the shortness of breath could have possibly been caused by a new allergy or something like that. I didn't know it was caused by low blood sugar.

Birdie · Nov 11, 2012

O, thanks, I see. In my case, it's been going on for a long time. RP says he needs to drink a lot of oj with each egg to balance it. I seem to be erratic and do better some days than others. :)

nwo2012 · Nov 11, 2012

Birdie said:
O, thanks, I see. In my case, it's been going on for a long time. RP says he needs to drink a lot of oj with each egg to balance it. I seem to be erratic and do better some days than others. :)

Im worse. I need a lot of OJ and a well sugared coffee before I even start my eggs. Also 1 hour after the eggs I need some syrup and milk to keep my blood sugar stable. I think the trick is to keep sipping on some form of sugar all day long in addition to plenty with each large protein intake.

Birdie · Nov 26, 2012

nwo2012 said:
Birdie said:

O, thanks, I see. In my case, it's been going on for a long time. RP says he needs to drink a lot of oj with each egg to balance it. I seem to be erratic and do better some days than others. :)

Click to expand...

Im worse. I need a lot of OJ and a well sugared coffee before I even start my eggs. Also 1 hour after the eggs I need some syrup and milk to keep my blood sugar stable. I think the trick is to keep sipping on some form of sugar all day long in addition to plenty with each large protein intake.

I think I will try the coffee as you say, along with oj before the egg. My husband fixes black tea first thing. I can't stand sugar in that only milk. Do you take your thyroid with food?
I wonder if part of the problem is that I've been taking 1/4 cynoplus with my tea/milk. Maybe I should wait to have it with breakie.
I tried that today.
Can't tell if it made a difference. Will try again tomorrow. Thanks nwo.

dannyroddy · Nov 27, 2012

Interesting read. Thanks for your replies Peatarian.

In a recent interview Peat noted that prolactin was best around 4-7 for males and higher for women.

Were the values you posted for women? Or did Peat change his mind?

I regularly see people with libido/hair/mood problems with prolactin in the 9-12 range (along with increased serotonin, 150+).

EDIT: Hah, Charlie can you remove the practitioner status from my name?

kettlebell · Nov 27, 2012

Welcome to the forum Danny!

charlie · Nov 27, 2012

dannyroddy said:
Interesting read. Thanks for your replies Peatarian.

In a recent interview Peat noted that prolactin was best around 4-7 for males and higher for women.

Were the values you posted for women? Or did Peat change his mind?

I regularly see people with libido/hair/mood problems with prolactin in the 9-12 range (along with increased serotonin, 150+).

EDIT: Hah, Charlie can you remove the practitioner status from my name?

Danny, welcome to the forum! :welcome

I will go remove that now. :ugeek:

dannyroddy · Nov 27, 2012

kettlebell said:
Welcome to the forum Danny!

Thanks Kettlebell, thanks Charlie.

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