pufa storage

Blossom · Mar 12, 2014

I will post what I have from RP on iodine later today. Just off the top of my head and not being in a place to access specific information I know that he feels iodine deficiency in modern times, in most place but a few remote areas, is exceedingly rare. I gleaned from reading his work that my previous use of supplemental iodine and idolized salt had probably done more harm than good. It sure felt like I experienced increased oxidative stress during that time, but in all fairness my diet was horrible and I was wasting so the iodine was probably just one more negative and not the sole problem.

Blossom · Mar 12, 2014

Obviously we should use a fluoride filter to minimise that exposure too. I think this is another area where being in a good metabolic state can help protect us as well.

Kray · Mar 12, 2014

Blossom,

If you can find such a thing as a fluoride filter, let me know. Other than RO water filters or some more expensive type, the problem with fluoride is that it is too small to be filtered through (most) home filters. Just what my searching, albeit limited, has turned up.

Checking iodine content on most websites, many "Peat" foods are on the list; however, the issue of competing halogens is still a question in my mind that may be a game-changer depending upon where you live, whether your water is fluoridated, etc. I appreciate any further info you may be able to provide on that front. :)

Blossom · Mar 12, 2014

The one I use is Berkey.

Kray · Mar 12, 2014

Blossom,

Can you provide a model # or type? Is yours a kitchen filter or whole-house? Just wondering if you have to add extra filtration to remove the fluoride. Can you give an idea of your yearly maintenance cost (filters/servicing, etc)?

himsahimsa · Mar 12, 2014

classicallady: You can't mean a gram!! I'll assume not.

I do like the iodine.

So I am trying RP's ideas. I think he's a genius but I think since I have a pretty good grip on what keeps me healthy already, I will incorporate them carefully, judiciously. Zeroing PUFA is obvious and easy especially since with the exception of an eight month experiment with flax oil back in 2003 (it did me real harm but not right away), I never ate much in the first place. But now I am being annoying about it.

There is something that I think gets missed almost always. Some things are probably going to give a much better result if they are NOT used every day. It's one thing to supply what's needed and something else entirely to have an elevated blood level all the time.

I had no problem using the iodine every day but I also know that for interventions in places like the Himalayas, they will give people very high doses as iodated oil just twice a year, because that's how often they can do it. So for now I am going to down a single 12mg dose every two weeks and see how it goes.

I know what I am exposed to, and bromine and fluorine aren't an issue. Anyway two years or so ago I started the Lugol's by taking 50mg a day for about 6 months, I worked up to 50mg over a couple weeks because I think shocking the system is usually bad. Since then I've been taking 12mg/D till I read Peat's stuff. And I use about 2.5 grams of salt a day. So I think it's likely that I'm pretty well halide stripped. I think "enough" iodine is certainly less than 12mg/D and varying it is probably best. If you've been using it a while it is stored in your fat and you're no going to run out very soon. I really think fatty acid conjugation by neutralizing oxidation and overall reactivity of the unsaturated fatty acids is a big deal. I have smelled people who smelled unmistakably rancid. That has got to be bad.

I think iodine might be useful to suppress some bacteria that contribute to the endotoxin load. It's been mentioned here and there. So if I think I need a safe, mild bioinhibiter I will use iodine daily till I think I'm cooked. In general though, once I have a good culture going I don't mess with it.

Berberine, as in Bitter Mellon and Oregon Grape root, is also useful for that as a modulator of the biom. Also Minocin (pelletized, NOT generic, and it costs an arm and a leg)

Also, I'm not going to try to eliminate cysteine and methionine. They are required for glutatione and people with low glutathione are always unwell.

himsahimsa · Mar 12, 2014

Fluoride and other ions can not really be filtered, they are dissolved and dissolved material is not filterable because it's not a particle (except with serious industrial reverse osmosis equipment). You can remove some of it it by running the water through activated charcoal but that's not too effective, it's like trying get salt out with carbon. Best to buy drinking water if you can afford it. Even then it's best to put it through the charcoal to get the BPA and similar materials out. Activated charcoal is very effective for organics. Some ion exchange devices will do it but I would not let the sales guy get away with fast talk. I'd want to see specs.

Blossom · Mar 12, 2014

This is what I found from Ray Peat just doing a quick search because my husband is wanting food!
Ray Peat quote: "Iodine deficiency used to cause pointers in the U.S., but now it is almost impossible to have an iodine deficiency in this country. Iodine supplements can suppress the formation of thyroid hormone, producing classical signs of hypothyroidism."
From Thyroid Misconceptions 1993
Here is an interesting sentence taken from sources for the article: Present data allow us to conclude that alterations due to iodine excess in thyroid gland, hepatic tissue and blood are mediated through oxidative stress.
I just know it had a negative impact on me personally. Each person should obviously do what works for best for their situation.
As for the fluoride filter I use it is a counter top model and they come in various price ranges. I found out about the fluoride filter for the Berkey I already owned from a forum member. I paid a couple hundred originally and the filter was an additional 60 dollars if memory serves me correctly.

Kray · Mar 12, 2014

himsahimsa said:
classicallady: You can't mean a gram!! I'll assume not.

I do like the iodine.

So I am trying RP's ideas. I think he's a genius but I think since I have a pretty good grip on what keeps me healthy already, I will incorporate them carefully, judiciously. Zeroing PUFA is obvious and easy especially since with the exception of an eight month experiment with flax oil back in 2003 (it did me real harm but not right away), I never ate much in the first place. But now I am being annoying about it.

There is something that I think gets missed almost always. Some things are probably going to give a much better result if they are NOT used every day. It's one thing to supply what's needed and something else entirely to have an elevated blood level all the time.

I had no problem using the iodine every day but I also know that for interventions in places like the Himalayas, they will give people very high doses as iodated oil just twice a year, because that's how often they can do it. So for now I am going to down a single 12mg dose every two weeks and see how it goes.

I know what I am exposed to, and bromine and fluorine aren't an issue. Anyway two years or so ago I started the Lugol's by taking 50mg a day for about 6 months, I worked up to 50mg over a couple weeks because I think shocking the system is usually bad. Since then I've been taking 12mg/D till I read Peat's stuff. And I use about 2.5 grams of salt a day. So I think it's likely that I'm pretty well halide stripped. I think "enough" iodine is certainly less than 12mg/D and varying it is probably best. If you've been using it a while it is stored in your fat and you're no going to run out very soon. I really think fatty acid conjugation by neutralizing oxidation and overall reactivity of the unsaturated fatty acids is a big deal. I have smelled people who smelled unmistakably rancid. That has got to be bad.

I think iodine might be useful to suppress some bacteria that contribute to the endotoxin load. It's been mentioned here and there. So if I think I need a safe, mild bioinhibiter I will use iodine daily till I think I'm cooked. In general though, once I have a good culture going I don't mess with it.

Berberine, as in Bitter Mellon and Oregon Grape root, is also useful for that as a modulator of the biom. Also Minocin (pelletized, NOT generic, and it costs an arm and a leg)

Also, I'm not going to try to eliminate cysteine and methionine. They are required for glutatione and people with low glutathione are always unwell.

Himsahimsa:

You are right, I meant mcg! Not trying to trick you, but I wasn't careful. Thanks for spotting that!

What made you decide to do the iodine, if not for halide issues? I'm not sure I understand what the iodine, herbs, and Minocin helped you with, but would any of them be indicated for chronic skin problems? I don't know what is causing a dermatitis I've had on my neck (few areas of face that have now faded) for almost a year now. I've been doing a Peat diet for at least that long. I don't have IBS or any other diagnosed condition. Have tried food elimination but no change. Wondered if thyroid supplement and/or iodine could help (even though according to Peat and my diet, there doesn't seem to be a need to supplement iodine). Anecdotally, I have read that iodine supplements have helped people with skin/dermatitis, but it's hard to find any real substantiation for it otherwise. If it might be helpful, would it be best to slowly increase to 50mg (or less if the rash clears in the interim)?

Just curious-- what foods do you regularly have that are high in cysteine & methionine?

Grateful for your help and insights,
Classicallady

himsahimsa · Mar 14, 2014

Chicken, according to RP. I just don't ration amino acids. For meat I eat foul and bos. I ate a squirrel once. That was pretty good. Maybe I'll take it up on a regular basis. It's got to be cleaner than store meat. And squirrel smells wonderful, not just tolerable but positively great. I don't mean while it's cooking, that too, but the animal itself. That's so unexpected. It's a rodent, right? Rats, mice, hamsters, all the rodents I've ever smelled have smelled downright awful but not squirrels, even if you confine them. (It's their urine, eau d'forest.)

So I don't exclude anything based on sulfur amino acid content, and, I regularly supplement with 0.6 gram caps of N-Acetyl Cysteine besides (sometimes more). Glutathione, superoxide dysmutase, those are a big deal. Not having the raw material to make them is bad. I disagree with RP on this completely. Look at acetaminophen poisoning for an example of what happens when you flat run out of SOD. Running conically low means living continually in a state of toxic stress. How is that acceptable? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetaminophen_toxicity

Say you're feeling kind of punk, and chances are, when you feel that way (baring some endocrine disaster) there is something going on that's cranking out toxins, of whatever kind, but they have to be got rid of. It's your liver that's going to do that, and it's going to do it using a glutathione-whatever. But you've been downing Tylenol, because you feel like siht, depleting SOD (a glutathione-whatever) on a more than one to one weight basis. And now your sliding on thin liver. Without a helmet.

And it's not just the liver. Gultathiones are used everywhere.

MyUsernameHere · Mar 14, 2014

Iodine increased my dream frequency and made my skin softer. Never had any negative side effects. More organs besides the thyroid need iodine so the RDA is useless. The supposed thyroid suppression also does not happen, that is a fabrication and misinterpretation. After taking 12.5 mg of iodine for a few months my TSH did not change up or down in any way, and my symptoms did not change either (the hormonal ones). I only had the improvements I mentioned in the first sentence.

[mod]This post contains alternatives to Ray Peat's views. For a full explanation click here.[/mod]

Blossom · Mar 14, 2014

MyUsernameHere said:
Iodine increased my dream frequency and made my skin softer. Never had any negative side effects. More organs besides the thyroid need iodine so the RDA is useless. The supposed thyroid suppression also does not happen, that is a fabrication and misinterpretation. After taking 12.5 mg of iodine for a few months my TSH did not change up or down in any way, and my symptoms did not change either (the hormonal ones). I only had the improvements I mentioned in the first sentence.

There is no doubt we need some iodine but I personally feel by consuming seafood that is actually from the the sea I am able to get all I need. I'm sure I get some idolized salt even though I don't use it in my own home, due to eating things occasionally prepared by others etc. I think that is probably what Ray meant by it being rare to have a deficiency in the U.S. I was simply posting my experience and what I felt was Ray's stance based upon what I had read of his work. I'm all about respecting choices and since I would never want anyone telling me what to do I in turn would not do that to others. I will of course discuss a Peat perspective since this is a forum inspired by Ray Peat's work. I'm happy to hear your success.

Kray · Mar 14, 2014

himsahimsa said:
Chicken, according to RP. I just don't ration amino acids. For meat I eat foul and bos. I ate a squirrel once. That was pretty good. Maybe I'll take it up on a regular basis. It's got to be cleaner than store meat. And squirrel smells wonderful, not just tolerable but positively great. I don't mean while it's cooking, that too, but the animal itself. That's so unexpected. It's a rodent, right? Rats, mice, hamsters, all the rodents I've ever smelled have smelled downright awful but not squirrels, even if you confine them. (It's their urine, eau d'forest.)

So I don't exclude anything based on sulfur amino acid content, and, I regularly supplement with 0.6 gram caps of N-Acetyl Cysteine besides (sometimes more). Glutathione, superoxide dysmutase, those are a big deal. Not having the raw material to make them is bad. I disagree with RP on this completely. Look at acetaminophen poisoning for an example of what happens when you flat run out of SOD. Running conically low means living continually in a state of toxic stress. How is that acceptable? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetaminophen_toxicity

Say you're feeling kind of punk, and chances are, when you feel that way (baring some endocrine disaster) there is something going on that's cranking out toxins, of whatever kind, but they have to be got rid of. It's your liver that's going to do that, and it's going to do it using a glutathione-whatever. But you've been downing Tylenol, because you feel like siht, depleting SOD (a glutathione-whatever) on a more than one to one weight basis. And now your sliding on thin liver. Without a helmet.

And it's not just the liver. Gultathiones are used everywhere.[/quote

Thanks Himsa! Very interesting. Never had opportunity to try squirrel, but you make it sound rather tasty :) I know people from the south who eat some different critters, so it's all good, I guess, except maybe some of those varmits you mentioned :)

And you can down all those PUFAS with a healthy dose of E, right? I used to take NAC, I may have to reconsider that as well. Will research more on glutathione, SOD.

Do you do any grains? Since I gave up anything wheat-related some years ago, I have wondered if some of my problems (skin) could be lack of nutrients from the grains that I'm not making up for in enough quantity with the other peaty foods I eat. In fact, I'm going to try some brewer's yeast concoction Peat has suggested to see if the extra Bs in this form may prove helpful as opposed to a B pill supplement. I'll let you know how it goes.

And I'm going to start some Iodoral today. Its use has been shown to lower histaminic reaction. That's a good thing imo. Thanks for all the interesting tidbits of information. Hope to chat again :)

Kray · Mar 14, 2014

himsahimsa said:
Chicken, according to RP. I just don't ration amino acids. For meat I eat foul and bos. I ate a squirrel once. That was pretty good. Maybe I'll take it up on a regular basis. It's got to be cleaner than store meat. And squirrel smells wonderful, not just tolerable but positively great. I don't mean while it's cooking, that too, but the animal itself. That's so unexpected. It's a rodent, right? Rats, mice, hamsters, all the rodents I've ever smelled have smelled downright awful but not squirrels, even if you confine them. (It's their urine, eau d'forest.)

So I don't exclude anything based on sulfur amino acid content, and, I regularly supplement with 0.6 gram caps of N-Acetyl Cysteine besides (sometimes more). Glutathione, superoxide dysmutase, those are a big deal. Not having the raw material to make them is bad. I disagree with RP on this completely. Look at acetaminophen poisoning for an example of what happens when you flat run out of SOD. Running conically low means living continually in a state of toxic stress. How is that acceptable? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetaminophen_toxicity

Say you're feeling kind of punk, and chances are, when you feel that way (baring some endocrine disaster) there is something going on that's cranking out toxins, of whatever kind, but they have to be got rid of. It's your liver that's going to do that, and it's going to do it using a glutathione-whatever. But you've been downing Tylenol, because you feel like siht, depleting SOD (a glutathione-whatever) on a more than one to one weight basis. And now your sliding on thin liver. Without a helmet.

And it's not just the liver. Gultathiones are used everywhere.

Thanks Himsa! Very interesting. Never had opportunity to try squirrel, but you make it sound rather tasty :) I know people from the south who eat some different critters, so it's all good, I guess, except maybe some of those varmits you mentioned :)

And you can down all those PUFAS with a healthy dose of E, right? I used to take NAC, I may have to reconsider that as well. Will research more on glutathione, SOD.

Do you do any grains? Since I gave up anything wheat-related some years ago, I have wondered if some of my problems (skin) could be lack of nutrients from the grains that I'm not making up for in enough quantity with the other peaty foods I eat. In fact, I'm going to try some brewer's yeast concoction Peat has suggested to see if the extra Bs in this form may prove helpful as opposed to a B pill supplement. I'll let you know how it goes.

And I'm going to start some Iodoral today. In reading up on iodine, its use has been shown to lower histaminic reaction. That's a good thing imo. Thanks for all the interesting tidbits of information. Hope to chat again soon :)

Kray · Mar 14, 2014

Himsa: btw- do you ever drink alcohol? Red wine, or beer? Just curious. Can't seem to justify giving up a nice glass of red with my lamb or beef.

Blossom · Mar 14, 2014

Himsa and classicallady-maybe you guys should start a thread under 'health topics not related to Ray Peat'. More people would probably see all your iodine info that way. They would probably look at this one only if interested in things related to pufa and maybe miss out on your stuff and it seems you guys have lots of info to share! :idea:

charlie · Mar 14, 2014

Just in case anyone missed it.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1774

Katty · Jun 6, 2014

classicallady said:
In fact, I'm going to try some brewer's yeast concoction Peat has suggested to see if the extra Bs in this form may prove helpful as opposed to a B pill supplement. I'll let you know how it goes.

And I'm going to start some Iodoral today. In reading up on iodine, its use has been shown to lower histaminic reaction. That's a good thing imo. Thanks for all the interesting tidbits of information. Hope to chat again soon :)

Hi Classicallady-
Wondering if you tried the brewer's yeast concoction and what your experience with it was. Any particular brand you tried? How big of a dose?
I think I read that Peat said 2 weeks would be sufficient with it. Hard to imagine 2 weeks completely resolving blood sugar issues (or other nutritional deficiencies).

Also, did you start Iodoral at the same time, and if so, are you able to differentiate the reactions from each.

Thanks!

Kray · Jun 6, 2014

Katty,

This is the one I tried:

http://www.amazon.com/Max-B-ND-Premier- ... B0062MCRZG

I don't have anything negative to say. I think it's a good source, but values may not be as high as you want. Claims are that in the "natural state" such as this, dosage needed isn't as high. I guess you would have to decide for yourself. Sorry I can't be more helpful.

I am currently not supplementing iodine. You might want to check out the moderator's comments above.

j. · Jun 6, 2014

classicallady, the B supplement you posted doesn't seem to have an insane amount of B6, maybe the first time I see that.

2 teaspoons would have 12 mg, about the 10 mg amount Peat recommends.

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