Bonobos Do Not Age Due To High Thyroid Hormone

haidut · Apr 22, 2014

Bonobos are a type of chimpanzee and are genetically very close to humans. They are know for virtually NOT aging at all, retaining characteristics of children well into their adult life, lack of aggression, highly sexual lifestyle, etc. At some point they just seem to die from infection, accident or starvation but they simply do not age.
It seems that this is all due to high levels of thyroid hormone.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 123828.htm

"...Hormone measures showed that the thyroid hormone pattern of western modern humans and chimpanzees was very similar, with high levels before puberty and a decrease of this hormone during and after puberty. Unexpectedly, samples of bonobos differed: The concentration of thyroid hormone T3 remained high well until adulthood. In other words, compared to chimpanzees, bonobos retain the elevated levels of thyroid hormone which are a characteristic trait for young individuals for a longer time and experience the decline of thyroid hormones relatively late in life."

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 8413002285

"...The prolongation of high TT3 levels in bonobos, which is characteristic of immatures of both Pan species may affect the behavior of bonobos; namely, the low intensity of aggression they display. "

What can I say - another point for Ray Peat. Also, stock up on Cynoplus before FDA finds out and bans our elixir of youth

j. · Apr 22, 2014

Oh, so we evolved from the wrong monkeys! Future humans evolved from Bonobos will be immortal.

haidut · Apr 22, 2014

j. said:
Oh, so we evolved from the wrong monkeys! Future humans evolved from Bonobos will be immortal.

In one of his articles Ray writes about the "Boskop skull", which is about 50% larger and is presumably from a humanoid creature with about 40% larger brain. In that article he says the skull belongs to a human whose relatives lived long ago on a diet completely devoid of PUFA and that human genus had an extremely long lifespan reflected in many legends and Biblical characters like Methuselah (lived over 900 years).
Long story short, if you look at a picture of that skull and a skull of a Bonobo you will be shocked by the similarity! It's almost like the Bonobo is a proportionally smaller version of the Boskop. Maybe the "correct" human lineage already developed in the past, but was wiped out by the hordes of the Neanderthal, which Peat said ate Mostly meat and seeds laden with PUFA.

For those that would like to know more, here is a really interesting article about the Boskop and its co-existence with the modern humans:
http://discovermagazine.com/2009/the-br ... er-than-us

j. · Apr 22, 2014

It's from the Alzheimer article.

They are advancing a myth about human nature, so I will advance a counter-myth. At the time people were growing their large brains they lived in the tropics. I suggest that in this time before the development of grain-based agriculture, they ate a diet that was relatively free of unsaturated fats and low in iron--based on tropical fruits. I suggest that the Boskop skull from Mt. Kilimanjaro was representative of people under those conditions, and that just by our present knowledge of the association of brain size with longevity, they--as various "Golden Age" myths claim--must have had a very long life-span.

haidut said:
In that article he says the skull belongs to a human whose relatives lived long ago on a diet completely devoid of PUFA

Or very low pufa, as fruits have them too.

j. · Apr 22, 2014

What's interesting about the Bonobos is that they keep high thyroid hormone despite a not perfect diet, while what we the Peaters are trying to do is keep thyroid hormone high through diet or supplementation.

haidut · Apr 22, 2014

j. said:
What's interesting about the Bonobos is that they keep high thyroid hormone despite a not perfect diet, while what we the Peaters are trying to do is keep thyroid hormone high through diet or supplementation.

I was under the impression that Bonobos eat mostly fruit and insects. So, that's sugar and protein - pretty Peaty, right?
Or am I misinformed?

aguilaroja · Apr 22, 2014

Very interesting. While the longevity of bonobo well being seems still an open question, the relation of T3 to neoteny is thought provoking. A Peatarian reader quoted the passage from Generative Energy I recalled:

http://peatarian.com/1088/improvements- ... 1091#a1091

.... A related quote for your enjoyment (from Generative Energy) : " In evolution, the tendency toward dominance of the head (cephalization) in animal overlaps with another tendency (known in the plants too) called juvenilization, pedomorphism, or neoteny, in which an early stage of development, the juvenile stage, is preserved for longer and longer periods in the descendants, eventually becoming the normal adult type. Baby apes resemble humans, in body proportions and behavior, much more than the adult apes do. The infant represents our evolutionary future "
answered Jun 4, 2012 by Roquefort

Suikerbuik · Apr 22, 2014

Haidut, pff man you're a machine putting all these interesting links! Think you got me addicted to this forum :) One day you will put forth a nobel prize worthy model that describes and saves mankind no doubt!

MUCH THANKS !!!!

j. · Apr 22, 2014

haidut said:
I was under the impression that Bonobos eat mostly fruit and insects. So, that's sugar and protein - pretty Peaty, right?
Or am I misinformed?

I was just guessing they had high thyroid hormone as a feature of their species, regardless of the diet, but I'm not informed and I don't know.

haidut · Apr 22, 2014

Suikerbuik said:
Haidut, pff man you're a machine putting all these interesting links! Think you got me addicted to this forum :) One day you will put forth a nobel prize worthy model that describes and saves mankind no doubt! MUCH THANKS !!!!

LOL, thanks! For now I'd settle with just keeping the forum interesting. Hopefully, good things will come out of this. If nothing else, Ray said that reading interesting stuff keeping people healthy and living longer, so even that's a good enough success for me

burtlancast · Apr 22, 2014

mind = blown

Ideonaut · Feb 13, 2016

In the book The Naked Ape from circa 1970 the author said that Japanese were more neotenized than other human groups. They certainly seem to have plenty of energy for eating so much pufa-laden fish and soy. As for the above about naked mole rats, it is astounding to me that a mammal should be living in colonies with a queen that bears the young, like ants. Perhaps Rupert Sheldrake's morphogenetic fields at play? Peat seems to give some credence to the developmental field idea, as I recall.

haidut · Feb 13, 2016

brumpfschmlog said:
In the book The Naked Ape from circa 1970 the author said that Japanese were more neotenized than other human groups. They certainly seem to have plenty of energy for eating so much pufa-laden fish and soy. As for the above about naked mole rats, it is astounding to me that a mammal should be living in colonies with a queen that bears the young, like ants. Perhaps Rupert Sheldrake's morphogenetic fields at play? Peat seems to give some credence to the developmental field idea, as I recall.

These are very interesting points. Peat's thought on the naked mole rat was the high CO2 levels, but the studies I posted on the ants suggest that it is the social organization that keeps these animals from aging. Ironically, that same social organization is what seems to tell them to die suddenly when no longer needed. In humans it has been shown that survival and recovery from heart attacks is determined primarily by feeling a sense of purpose - i.e. if there is something to live for. Women who have a high number of children and then go on to help with rearing a large number of grand children often live 20+ years longer than their peers.

milk_lover · Feb 13, 2016

Ok birds, ants, naked mole rats, and bonobos don't age because of reasons we know already, but what about turtles and whales? They seem to live a pretty long life.

Kasper · Feb 13, 2016

> In humans it has been shown that survival and recovery from heart attacks is determined primarily by feeling a sense of purpose - i.e. if there is something to live for. Women who have a high number of children and then go on to help with rearing a large number of grand children often live 20+ years longer than their peers.

I'm wondering which kind of hormones would a sense of purpose stimulate? Dopamine?

haidut · Feb 13, 2016

Kasper said:
> In humans it has been shown that survival and recovery from heart attacks is determined primarily by feeling a sense of purpose - i.e. if there is something to live for. Women who have a high number of children and then go on to help with rearing a large number of grand children often live 20+ years longer than their peers.

I'm wondering which kind of hormones would a sense of purpose stimulate? Dopamine?

Yes, dopamine. Serotonin destroys sense of purpose since it forces a mindset of mindless routine.

bodacious · Feb 26, 2016

Last week I was getting a class in learning to juggle (don't ask). I found myself grinning and giggle like an idiot for most of the time.

I did the same thing today when someone showed me a cool new language trick.

Is it dopamine that causes this sense of elation when something new is discovered?

dookie · Feb 26, 2016

haidut said:
These are very interesting points. Peat's thought on the naked mole rat was the high CO2 levels, but the studies I posted on the ants suggest that it is the social organization that keeps these animals from aging. Ironically, that same social organization is what seems to tell them to die suddenly when no longer needed. In humans it has been shown that survival and recovery from heart attacks is determined primarily by feeling a sense of purpose - i.e. if there is something to live for. Women who have a high number of children and then go on to help with rearing a large number of grand children often live 20+ years longer than their peers.

Those women could just be living longer due to higher progesterone from childbirths, etc. I tend to think more in the biochemical direction, which can be influenced :)

So for example, you know those people on their deathbeds who say their time is over, they have nothing to live for, etc. I have often wondered, what if they were given a pro-dopamine/anti-serotonin drug? Maybe the outlook would change, maybe they would "gain" a purpose?

haidut · Feb 29, 2016

dookie said:
Those women could just be living longer due to higher progesterone from childbirths, etc. I tend to think more in the biochemical direction, which can be influenced :)

So for example, you know those people on their deathbeds who say their time is over, they have nothing to live for, etc. I have often wondered, what if they were given a pro-dopamine/anti-serotonin drug? Maybe the outlook would change, maybe they would "gain" a purpose?

Peat wrote about a Russian doctor who did studies on the effects of hope on terminally ill. She had quite a bit of success with that approach. Escaping learned helplessness plays a big role in recovery from any condition.

paymanz · Oct 29, 2016

haidut said:
I was under the impression that Bonobos eat mostly fruit and insects. So, that's sugar and protein - pretty Peaty, right?

Or am I misinformed?

Insects apparently have high PUFA content.

There is not a lot of info on this but last time I checked ,it was around 15_20% PUFA!

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Bonobos Do Not Age Due To High Thyroid Hormone

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