Altitude - Higher suicidal rate?

iLoveSugar · Jul 12, 2014

What are some possible reasons for this?

There is a significantly lower mortality rate for permanent residents at higher altitudes.[20] Similarly, there is a dose response relationship between increasing elevation and decreasing obesity prevalence in the United States.[21] This is not explained by migration alone.[22] On the other hand, people living at higher elevations also have a higher rate of suicide in the United States.[23] Similar findings were observed for both firearm-related suicides (59% of suicides) and nonfirearm-related suicides. The correlation between elevation and suicide risk was present even when the researchers control for known suicide risk factors, including age, gender, race and income. Research also indicates that oxygen levels are unlikely to be a factor, considering that there is no indication of increased mood disturbances at high altitude in those with sleep apnea or in heavy smokers at high altitude. The cause for the increased suicide risk is unknown so far.[23

narouz · Jul 12, 2014

So...you're saying there IS a higher suicide rate at high altitudes?

iLoveSugar · Jul 12, 2014

Yes. Besides the obvious, Sin City (las Vegas), Colorado Springs is by far the top per capita in the USA. A few studies show that oxygen deprivation has something to play. Basically the studies say that altitude equals a higher suicidal rate.

narouz · Jul 12, 2014

Interesting, Sugar,
but I guess I'd like to establish that such a correlation really does exist
before trying to figure out why....

iLoveSugar · Jul 12, 2014

narouz said:
Interesting, Sugar,
but I guess I'd like to establish that such a correlation really does exist
before trying to figure out why....

Look at the top 10 cities in the USA. Colorado Springs is 7,000 ft up and is atop the list (not counting Vegas). Denver isn't far behind. There's also documented studies.

tara · Jul 12, 2014

iLoveSugar said:
Yes. Besides the obvious, Sin City (las Vegas), Colorado Springs is by far the top per capita in the USA. A few studies show that oxygen deprivation has something to play. Basically the studies say that altitude equals a higher suicidal rate.

No possibility that Las Vegas has other characteristics that could be confounding contributors? :lol:

iLoveSugar · Jul 12, 2014

That's why I excluded Vegas. Throw Vegas out and Colorado Springs tops the list. Colorado Springs is known for its altitude.

haidut · Jul 14, 2014

iLoveSugar said:
That's why I excluded Vegas. Throw Vegas out and Colorado Springs tops the list. Colorado Springs is known for its altitude.

What about Santa Fe, NM or some of the California towns up in the mountains?
One quick thought - higher in the mountains could mean less sunshine exposure. Mountain weather tends to be foggy, rainy and cold-ish. Lack of sunlight has a good track record of increasing suicide rates.

Such_Saturation · Jul 14, 2014

Loneliness?

Ben · Jul 14, 2014

I was wondering the same thing. CO2 should lower serotonin which should lower learned helplessness which should lower suicide rate.

Also Haidut, shouldn't there be more sunlight exposure at high altitudes? Cities surrounded by mountains notoriously have smog and lower amounts of sunlight. Even if there was less, it's weird that CO2 wouldn't compensate.

Such_Saturation · Jul 14, 2014

I'm not sure decreased oxygen pressure automatically translates to higher CO2 for everyone.

iLoveSugar · Jul 14, 2014

haidut said:
iLoveSugar said:

That's why I excluded Vegas. Throw Vegas out and Colorado Springs tops the list. Colorado Springs is known for its altitude.

Click to expand...

What about Santa Fe, NM or some of the California towns up in the mountains?
One quick thought - higher in the mountains could mean less sunshine exposure. Mountain weather tends to be foggy, rainy and cold-ish. Lack of sunlight has a good track record of increasing suicide rates.

Colorado is known for it's abundant sunshine with over 300+ days per year. It's sunnier than 90% of
The USA.

iLoveSugar · Jul 14, 2014

Denver and Albuquerque are also in the top 10.

nograde · Jul 15, 2014

Many people have suicidal thoughts but, thank god, most do not have the will-power to execute it. As you may know suicide is a now recognized side-effect of SSRIs, especially in young people during the initial few weeks. That's interesting because SSRIs have the paradoxical effect of REDUCING serotonin during the first weeks and the current explanation for greater suicide rates in that phase is that anhedonia is reduced and increased motivational force leads to actual suicide. Maybe that could also explain why we see more incidents at higher altitudes.

iLoveSugar · Jul 15, 2014

nograde said:
Many people have suicidal thoughts but, thank god, most do not have the will-power to execute it. As you may know suicide is a now recognized side-effect of SSRIs, especially in young people during the initial few weeks. That's interesting because SSRIs have the paradoxical effect of REDUCING serotonin during the first weeks and the current explanation for greater suicide rates in that phase is that anhedonia is reduced and increased motivational force leads to actual suicide. Maybe that could also explain why we see more incidents at higher altitudes.

So your implying that low serotonin is bad?

pboy · Jul 15, 2014

you didn't know? being high reduces symptoms and makes happy?

Such_Saturation · Jul 15, 2014

nograde said:
Many people have suicidal thoughts but, thank god, most do not have the will-power to execute it. As you may know suicide is a now recognized side-effect of SSRIs, especially in young people during the initial few weeks. That's interesting because SSRIs have the paradoxical effect of REDUCING serotonin during the first weeks and the current explanation for greater suicide rates in that phase is that anhedonia is reduced and increased motivational force leads to actual suicide. Maybe that could also explain why we see more incidents at higher altitudes.

Acute exposure to SSRI downregulates microtubule activity, chronic exposure intensifies it.

nograde · Jul 15, 2014

@Ilovesugar: no. when I took SSRIs the first week I was still extremely depressed and unhappy but had a weird "energizing" feeling albeit not in a good sense. Its like you wanted to punch your fist against the wall before but you had not enough power, whereas suddenly you have the energy to do it but it's still a silly thing to do. I'm pretty sure it had something to do with reduced serotonin and dopamine shifts. Interestingly I lost ALL gravings for cigarettes in the first two weeks, mind you I smoke a pack/day for twenty years. I know that I only smoke for tobacco's MAO inhibiting effects to raise dopamine, (nicotine patches for example do almost nothing for me). However, after two weeks when serotonin kicked in I started smoking again and felt dumbed down.

Given those experiences I can easily imagine someone who has a deep desire to kill himself, actually doing it just because of an increase in "motivational force". I'm pretty sure there are many unhappy/suicidal people even at high altitude because CO2 retention is no magic bullet by itself if you do several other things wrong. However, if there is something at high altitude that generally motivates you even if you are suicidal ... things can go wrong.

Ben · Jul 15, 2014

Maybe higher radiation levels at high altitude have an impact.

Nograde: CO2 is a nerve relaxant that increases GABA, so wouldn't the melancholy peoples' emotional centers calm down?

Btw, I noticed a similar "paradox" with Scandinavia. They are the happiest countries in the world, but have the highest suicide rates as well. I thought the happiness was due to economic equality, and the suicide rate was due to darkness (of course I mean the ones up north).

nograde · Jul 15, 2014

@Ben: Interesting. Do you have any references about the CO2<=>GABA connection?

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Altitude - Higher suicidal rate?

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