Cells are not "told" how to assemble in the body

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A mathematical theory proposed by Alan Turing in 1952 can explain the formation of fingers

Score one for Raymond Peat, PhD. Is our body like a fractal? Remember:

In one of the most astounding developments in Western scientific history, the gradient-field, or epimorphic field concept, as embodied in normal ontogeny and as studied by experimental embryologists, seems to have simply vanished from the intellectual patrimony of Western biologists. (Gilbert et al. (1996), p. 360)

The idea of a developmental field was a fundamental part of embryology in the first half of the 20th century. It was an empirical idea, supported most commonly by evidence that diffusing substances and secreted materials governed the differentiation of cells and tissues, but the form-generating effects of bioelectric fields were also often demonstrated, and there was some evidence that tissue radiations played a role. The extracellular matrix secreted by cells served to transmit information between cells, but its form was regulated by cells, and its structure was a factor governing the cells' differentiation.

Electromagnetic cellular interactions

External signals and internal oscillation dynamics: biophysical aspects and modelling approaches for interactions of weak electromagnetic fields at the cellular level

The monomania involving our genetic code starts to appear as the biggest waste of time in the last one hundred years.
 

pboy

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yea man its so bad...the whole thing, 300 years from now looking back at this time from a historical perspective is gonna be hilarious and terrible at the same time...like one of the darkest ages of ignorance and disgust quite possibly ever in the history of the world...though at the same time, some of the best and least ignorant are also here...taking advantage of what the time offers, but as a whole...as the mainstream, as the world from a birds eye view, its worse or as bad...no, worse, than the witch hunt era, black plague, all that...in reality it is. Everything from public schools, forced everything, alarm clocks and schedules and time, the false knowledge going around, how disconnected people are, how ignorant of everything, the fact people get cut burned and poisoned every day by so called healers, spiritual leaders, government leaders, business people, and its in the basic nourturing ness of food, home life, family life, friends, everything...its...yea. The theories like gene theory will be as dumb and looked at as being the culprit for the killing, maming, injuring, scarring, poisioning, suicide inducing, so many more bad things, environmental and soul
polluting, more so than what believing people in witches did as a whole. Seriously, if you look at the total damage and pain caused, fear induced, todays situation is worse

indeed, you can put basic cellular material in solution and most of it self organizes. Peat states, and I believe, that the basic proteins expressed by the DNA create a web that selectively attracts and holds certain molecules, in a designed arrangement, and the DNA can always shift and change these proteins with elegance to create the situation it wants. The main thing governing this ability is ATP and co2. They give the cells the pressure energy to throw things out, cast things against a gradient, prevent themselves from being drowned and saturated in water until they burst. Ive actually heard and read a lot stating similar, even in mainstream by professors...but its just a one liner with no emphasis that gets glossed over. Basically cells are always against an onslaught of water, that's their main enemy, because the membrane can keep almost anything else out, or can be dealt with easily if they get in, but water freely moves in and out of membranes and can
dilute and disrupt function, even cause the cell to burst. Cells generate electric potential via oxidizing glucose or something else, then use this ATP, a huge portion of it, simply to cast out water that is always trying to drown the cell. Co2 helps create the pressure necessary to move things across a gradient, and for tonicity purpose so the cell holds its own structure and form properly. The main cause of water retention, edema, a diluted energy state in general, is a combo of too much water to ATP ratio...co2 generated ratio, so the cells get watered down. This makes it harder to recover also because glucose is slower getting in. It took me so long to understand this...its not just amount of sugar and fat (calories), its actually calories to water ratio, essentialy, absorpable calories to water ratio. This is why someone with edema or that has been drinking a lot of water will begin (happened to me, happens to me) craving, fiending for, ravenous for, dense foods. It doesn't matter what they are, but anything that will provide a lot of Atp and Co2 without any extra water. Another way excess water discourages metabolism is because every time a sugar or fatty acid is oxidized, more water is generated. If the cells are already watered down, they will be more likely to do lactic acid fermentation because this doesn't generate any extra water, which would furthur burden the cell, and the lactic acid is actually osmotically active and can help pull some water out of the cell

(I diverged, but...it spilled out of me)
 
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pboy said:
Ive actually heard and read a lot stating similar, even in mainstream by professors...but its just a one liner with no emphasis that gets glossed over.

Precisely. They are dismissing this kind of view because of their analytical reductionist approach, a mechanism which censors information from the ground up.

I think in many ways we shouldn't wish to exchange today's society for that of one or two thousand years ago, but truly a negative action today is worth a hundred times more than yesterday. The evil done easily surpasses that of the Middle Ages, I agree.

Following the principle that our standards and self-criticism must get higher and higher it will probably be OK to call the last century "dark age" or "phobia". The focus has to be, however, on progress and not criticism, and it will be indeed if we get to a point where we can look back at the twentieth century with some embarassment.

The "hundred times" principle goes for positive actions as well, so the solution is already in our hands. It is always a few inches away from being exposed, like those holographic cards you just turn slightly and see the new image.
 

Suikerbuik

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Looking from retrospective view things are always easy and clear cut. Challenging different hypotheses to get a better understanding is what science is all about.

WE place ourselves above nature.

It's our egos and the fact that we think we know much. If we just can accept that we have been wrong (partly) and see that we took a wrong avenue. a lot of research that has been done is extremely usefull in fact. Peat's articles haven't got all the answer too by the way.
 

pboy

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nice post such saturation, its great to look at the past and understand the problems and situation we are in now, from a more broad, true perspective. But then the thing that actually matters is...what to do about it now? I suppose the first and foremost thing would be to get the information out there, so people will gravitate towards, and move towards making things better. And there needs to be true examples of success and testament to real information, so people will believe in it and take leaps against the grain

I see a lot of this happening these days, especially since the past few years...when high speed internet, podcasts, web shows, youtube, and this sort of thing has taken off

Its pretty tough though because of how entrenched things are in the older generations...like, it might actually just take a few generations until they are gone...sad to say but I think things will automatically change within a couple generations because the way kids these days have been growing up, the technology, the information available...they wont be as crazy or dogmatic or gullible...I think, and hope

I can be a shining example with all the testament and proof, and knowledge and wisdom to show and prove things...yetolder people a lot of times don't notice, see, or more often, they attribute things to luck or randomness or genes or some other disempowering, excuse making belief. Its like they are all stuck in hyperactive cold war doctor nutritional science mode
 
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Suikerbuik said:
Looking from retrospective view things are always easy and clear cut. Challenging different hypotheses to get a better understanding is what science is all about.

WE place ourselves above nature.

It's our egos and the fact that we think we know much. If we just can accept that we have been wrong (partly) and see that we took a wrong avenue. a lot of research that has been done is extremely usefull in fact. Peat's articles haven't got all the answer too by the way.

Surely, but after amassing so many of these "unfortunate ages" I think you can extract a formative experience from them. It mustn't be about condemnation of people or ideas, rather work towards an understanding of what is progress and what is hypocrisy. It is crucial to accept that some periods are more logical and in others logic is a currency more scarcely accepted.
 
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pboy said:
nice post such saturation, its great to look at the past and understand the problems and situation we are in now, from a more broad, true perspective. But then the thing that actually matters is...what to do about it now? I suppose the first and foremost thing would be to get the information out there, so people will gravitate towards, and move towards making things better. And there needs to be true examples of success and testament to real information, so people will believe in it and take leaps against the grain

I see a lot of this happening these days, especially since the past few years...when high speed internet, podcasts, web shows, youtube, and this sort of thing has taken off

Its pretty tough though because of how entrenched things are in the older generations...like, it might actually just take a few generations until they are gone...sad to say but I think things will automatically change within a couple generations because the way kids these days have been growing up, the technology, the information available...they wont be as crazy or dogmatic or gullible...I think, and hope

I can be a shining example with all the testament and proof, and knowledge and wisdom to show and prove things...yetolder people a lot of times don't notice, see, or more often, they attribute things to luck or randomness or genes or some other disempowering, excuse making belief. Its like they are all stuck in hyperactive cold war doctor nutritional science mode

If they don't see the value they will lose importance... even if they might be cheating the loss of importance they are due for right now, their time is a very finite quantity, especially with the medicine and mindset they endorse. As you can see these things have a tendency to better themselves, but you can increase this tendency greatly by being part of it. Think of how a disease tends to be controlled naturally, and then think how much more strongly so when you go after it with an antibiotic. You are still part of that natural tendency, but on an exponential scale you represent the next step. I'm not saying "kill old people" because that is similar to what they are doing, and we also have young people with destructive behaviours. It is sufficient to work towards increasing and not decreasing communication.

I think the real benefits of this new plateau of connectivity will be best expressed by the generation that is yet to come. Old people don't want this increase in communication, and young people are blindly immersed in it and use it as naively as their grandfathers. People born at the end of the eighties are in the best position to see this phenomenon. When these young people grow up, they will slowly realize their mistakes and, coupled with their inborn acceptance of the new media, will grow their kids with such sense of responsibility and technological wisdom that they will be the makers of a very prosperous time.
 

pboy

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awesome man, amazing post...nice flowing there

I happen to be born in the late 80's, and I agree completely. Ive pondered on this a lot myself. I feel my generation was near the last that actually had perspective of
both worlds, and saw the whole transition from a neutral perspective. When I was young, there wasn't even internet yet, but Nintendo was out, color tv, pc's that were in ms dos mode, car phones...but kids all played outside, with eachother, sports, in person, exploring, swimming...camping, all that. People knew eachothers parents and familys, called their home phones, would call places of business and ask to speak to someone, ect...more a community feel. Then as I got older...it begin to get more like it is today. At the same time, when I was about 12-13, right when high speed came out and things started taking off...cell phones started getting small...around 2000 ish, a stepdaughter in the family...who was born in the late 90's... I saw the difference in her raising, how she acted and friends interacted...it was a crazy huge disparity. Basically like you said, its with naivety and no knowledge at all of the old way of life...no referancial experience to even make a comparison. Its incredibly crazy how small the window was...(most)people born pre 80's, maybe late 70's, are still entrenched entirely and without refuse in the old way...the mainstream. People born from the mid 90's and later are completely without perspective of the old ways, and lost in a technological plastic trance.
Its pretty much up to us, the generation of people who are about 19-39 right now, to set the foundation and leave a positive residue when all is said and done. And you can see it happening...think of that age range, more and more are becoming into decision making positions, having money...and about at that same rate things seem to be getting better, the old mold broken up (pun intended)
 
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I agree very much. One end of the spectrum (camping) should be enhanced by technology, and the other (something like working together on a project on Google Drive) should be enhanced by the positive knowledge that camping gives to someone. It would be like a huge loop that tends to fade the line between various ways to interact, but in a healthy way. Unfortunately old people see the internet as a joke, and young people are born into the internet are taught that the internet is a joke, so then anything else they come into contact with becomes just an extension of that joke. But we cannot blame the old guys because it makes no sense to think of one generation out of context.
 

pboy

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yea totally...I look at everyone as an individual...not their age, family, job, property, anything...just them, and I think that's the best healthiest and most progressive way to do so. In my experience, it just seems that the majority of people in the older generations are into destruction and false medicine, pollution war and poison, much moreso than the young...at least in America. Of course, there are multiple exceptions

and we might actually see a lot of the young generation aging rapidly and for all intents and purposes become old people at a young age if they don't adapt to the time...or rather, the truth. Its all about individuals and their integrity, no matter their family, group, affiliation, age, or anything
 
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Probably the first real scarcity of resources is bringing a wave of optimization that will benefit our minds greatly. Wasting is detrimental to thought and intelligence if done in a certain way, resources or no resources. Conversely, intelligence from good nutrition and metabolism make you think very efficiently and give the right importance to things. Communication resources are what we really have abundance of, and this is the key. There is not necessarily a large use of physical resource in them and we must aknowledge that things like unnatural pricing (hundreds of times the real price) for internet access or throttling of speeds are fundamental crimes against progress and happiness.
 

superhuman

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pboy said:
yea man its so bad...the whole thing, 300 years from now looking back at this time from a historical perspective is gonna be hilarious and terrible at the same time...like one of the darkest ages of ignorance and disgust quite possibly ever in the history of the world...though at the same time, some of the best and least ignorant are also here...taking advantage of what the time offers, but as a whole...as the mainstream, as the world from a birds eye view, its worse or as bad...no, worse, than the witch hunt era, black plague, all that...in reality it is. Everything from public schools, forced everything, alarm clocks and schedules and time, the false knowledge going around, how disconnected people are, how ignorant of everything, the fact people get cut burned and poisoned every day by so called healers, spiritual leaders, government leaders, business people, and its in the basic nourturing ness of food, home life, family life, friends, everything...its...yea. The theories like gene theory will be as dumb and looked at as being the culprit for the killing, maming, injuring, scarring, poisioning, suicide inducing, so many more bad things, environmental and soul
polluting, more so than what believing people in witches did as a whole. Seriously, if you look at the total damage and pain caused, fear induced, todays situation is worse

indeed, you can put basic cellular material in solution and most of it self organizes. Peat states, and I believe, that the basic proteins expressed by the DNA create a web that selectively attracts and holds certain molecules, in a designed arrangement, and the DNA can always shift and change these proteins with elegance to create the situation it wants. The main thing governing this ability is ATP and co2. They give the cells the pressure energy to throw things out, cast things against a gradient, prevent themselves from being drowned and saturated in water until they burst. Ive actually heard and read a lot stating similar, even in mainstream by professors...but its just a one liner with no emphasis that gets glossed over. Basically cells are always against an onslaught of water, that's their main enemy, because the membrane can keep almost anything else out, or can be dealt with easily if they get in, but water freely moves in and out of membranes and can
dilute and disrupt function, even cause the cell to burst. Cells generate electric potential via oxidizing glucose or something else, then use this ATP, a huge portion of it, simply to cast out water that is always trying to drown the cell. Co2 helps create the pressure necessary to move things across a gradient, and for tonicity purpose so the cell holds its own structure and form properly. The main cause of water retention, edema, a diluted energy state in general, is a combo of too much water to ATP ratio...co2 generated ratio, so the cells get watered down. This makes it harder to recover also because glucose is slower getting in. It took me so long to understand this...its not just amount of sugar and fat (calories), its actually calories to water ratio, essentialy, absorpable calories to water ratio. This is why someone with edema or that has been drinking a lot of water will begin (happened to me, happens to me) craving, fiending for, ravenous for, dense foods. It doesn't matter what they are, but anything that will provide a lot of Atp and Co2 without any extra water. Another way excess water discourages metabolism is because every time a sugar or fatty acid is oxidized, more water is generated. If the cells are already watered down, they will be more likely to do lactic acid fermentation because this doesn't generate any extra water, which would furthur burden the cell, and the lactic acid is actually osmotically active and can help pull some water out of the cell

(I diverged, but...it spilled out of me)


Really nice post

I was wondering about a few things in regards to what your saying in terms of calories and fluid/water. Strange that RP never mention this? like alot of the food he speaks highly of has a high fluid to calories ratio. Milk,OJ,coffee etc.

I know Matt Stone talks alot about this but i feel like he is more of a talker and talk about what he feels work for him and all that, not really dipping deep into it like RP and others does.

Would be great to hear more in terms of the calories,fluid and stuff and as it related to ATP, co2 hypothyroid and since i struggle with edema esp in lower body im super exited to listen to it.
 
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superhuman said:
Really nice post

I was wondering about a few things in regards to what your saying in terms of calories and fluid/water. Strange that RP never mention this? like alot of the food he speaks highly of has a high fluid to calories ratio. Milk,OJ,coffee etc.

I know Matt Stone talks alot about this but i feel like he is more of a talker and talk about what he feels work for him and all that, not really dipping deep into it like RP and others does.

Would be great to hear more in terms of the calories,fluid and stuff and as it related to ATP, co2 hypothyroid and since i struggle with edema esp in lower body im super exited to listen to it.

Ray Peat does advise against too much milk for the very hypothyroid. However he also thinks milk has enough salt and minerals to be considered "physiological" in that it is much less of burden to get rid of extra fluid from milk since it also provides the ions to do so. I think he would be fine with turning it into farmer's cheese since he also does not speak too highly of whey.
 

pboy

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naturally occurring watery foods like milk and fruit juice have enough solute in them to not water down a cell, but alone they cant help one recover very much who might already be diluted..edemic, hypo. Peat mentions a lot about edema and water retention, and inflammation and things like that, but yea...he doesn't talk about water much. I get the idea he never drinks much outside whats used in coffee or coke. If you only had milk and fruit, fruit juice, youd be pushing the limit. But if you add some fats, cheese, or other such dense foods its good

I think matt stone intuitively felt something, and tried to put it into words, and I appreciate a lot of what he says...I just don't think he has the exact science or words, expansive view to quite explain it properly or for others to benefit from

Take infants and breast milk as an example...babies cannot have any pure water or its dangerous for them. The dilution of blood and cellular fluid can actually cause brain damage or death. Milk is the limit of 'food to water' ratio that is safe...if you go more watery than that, it can start becoming metabolically damaging.
Almost all food has some water in it, and this is fine and ok. The only time we really need to, or would need to drink plain water, is if we ate a lot of salt, like a whole lot, and even then it would only be sips, a few ounces, required. Even after sweating or water loss somehow, plain water can be dangerous or harmful. Its always better to rehydrate with something that is full in solutes, because that is what you lose...not just plain water. Something like fruit juice, milk, or coconut water

Keep in mind this...take apes for example, they only eat watery fruit and vegetables, almost never drink any water, and they even get diluted, edemic by that alone. In fact, this is a problem for many herbivorous and ungulant animals...that is why you see them chewing bark, eating soil and clay and dirt, looking for salt
to lick...the idea is that they need to add some kind of dense solute as a diuretic, because the fruits and veg alone with high water content, and no dense or fatty food with it, leades to a hypo metabolic water retentive state. The exact same thing happens with humans. Drink too much water or non calorically dense things for even half a day, and youll soon become ravenous for a dense solute. The best defense against this, and what is necessary regardless, is caloric energy...in a dense enough way, milk being about the limit of wateriness. Basically this...you need atp, co2, and a solute of some type for your body to move or eliminate water. If you take in more water (including from food) than providing atp, co2, and some solutes (Na, K, Mg, Ca, Cl mostly..the electryolytes) you will start becoming spacey, muscularly weak, mentally less focused, and fiend for some kind of dense food preferably with some electryolyte solutes in it

Ive read a lot of science and compared things...but tbh, this is something that ive mostly come to the conclusion of through experience and observation, and many
many repetitions, with complete dedication

you could try this, and it makes complete sense why it would be so effective...to me at least. I was reading some older ayurvedic books...and there was a paragraph describing a yogi who would give feeble and sick, weak people a meal of white rice, cooked in milk rather than water, with dates and pistachios added. He claimed it could bring the dead back to life...figuratively speaking. It makes sense because its a dense, full of electrolytes, full of easily digestible energy..food, and pretty balanced. Think more along those lines...really dense nutrition and easy to digest. Even after a meal like that, if you do crave water, it will at most be a few sips mostly just to quench mouth and throat

...and props to Charlie for adding sugar to the milk...way to intuite it

something I developed for myself...is that I make sure everything I consume is 'rich' , you know what im saying...like if whatever it is isn't rich enough in taste, its either too diluted or lacking in electryolytes
 

superhuman

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pboy: thanx a ton. The thing is if i try to focus on only eating dense foods and stuff i get really really thirsty and i start to think about water all the time if i dont let myself have it. And i can smash down 0.5 liters no problem when im thirsty.

And also in regards to weight loss and like most people struggle with are weight gain wich will be very easy if you use that approach. Lower volume/denser foods
 

pboy

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that whole theory is based on false logic. People assume calories get stored as fat, and that's the cause...overeating. Its not like that at all. Its almost the opposite. Think about this analogy...im gonna make one up right now

you have this room, which is like your body (a cell). It is walled in and theres no roof, except one wall is open. Imagine leaves are falling from the sky into the room. If there is nothing happening, the leaves will eventually fill the room, clog it up, and it cant function. Now there is a fan at the back of the room, facing the empty wall. If you keep putting fuel into the fans fire, it keeps blowing and the leaves that fall get blown out of the room. The more energy the fan has, the faster if blows, the more leaves falling it can handle and quicker it can clear the room
The empty room is like the state of your fat cells if you will, and the fuel for the fan is mostly carbohydrate and the electryolytes to process it, but also any usuable energy source. The leaves falling are a combo of toxins, water, and all of lifes basic and other stresses. If you don't put in fuel to the fan, the room will clog up, and cease to have flow and purpose...function. We don't eat to store energy, we literally eat as a defense to throw out water and toxins that are always coming into cells and attempting to saturate, bog down, and the cell eventually cease to function and rupture. If you don't eat, this will happen faster. You must utilize a lot of carbyhydrate, to lose weight. Its the opposite of excess carbohydrate becoming weight. Its the only thing that is pure and weightless cellularly speaking that is giving your cells the energy to stay pure and toned. Ive posted in multiple posts...but ill mention it again. Less than 1% of dietary carbohydrate enter fatty acid synthesis, and most that do are for creating cholesterol and bile acids....this is a physiological fact...in texts

think about what would happen if you stopped eating and just went outside into nature and stood still...eventually lifes weathering would take its toll on you, you need to be warm to stay alive...youd literally melt into water and collapse, and natures pressures would consume you, and you wouldn't be able to move or think anymore. What is the one thing opposing this...moving you in the other direction, to stability warmth energy and focus? Its carbohydrates, mostly.
Water would not help...it might sustain you a hint longer at best, and in certain instances make it worse
 

superhuman

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pboy. Thanx a ton and i agree you in terms of your point but why has nobody managed to prove this in theory?

Like i could eat fruits all day wich is almost all sugar and i could gain weight/fat easily. Ive done so in the past wich frustrated the hell out of me.
So why does this happen do some people and why havent science or anyone figured out a way to prove that the calorie model is false in terms of that say you calculate that you need 2500 kcal roughly based on your BMR and activity etc and say you eat 3000 or 3500 kcal you will gain weight no matter what your calorie or macro ratio is.

I love this topic so much and would really like to figure it out but it seems that nobody can escape the calorie model.
I havent met anyone that have managed to raise their BMR/RMR or create a very high metabolism like you talk about. Please share if you managed it or how you would approach it say to loose fat etc. What one needs in terms of nutrients and all to create a state of super high metabolism
 

pboy

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fruit is watery, its more watery than milk. I explained it above...its why animals eventually have to start chewing bark, licking salt, and eating dirt and clay, because even fruit and veg are too watery and eventually dilute the cell, so they suck on drying diuretic substances to relieve the water.
Ive never had to lose fat, I don't think like that...I think in terms of becoming energetic to the point of being high, and use food and stuff to achieve that. If I eat 2200 or less calories a day I wake up with a stomach already burning ready for food. If I eat around 2700, im good, and going much beyond is actually a time burden, because once I hit that sweet energetic spot im compelled into action right away, and food is second fiddle. You must escape this mainstream calorie model, I cant tailor what ive said to try to fit it. What I said stands...and I guess I suggest trying it. Only through personal experience can you know, and can cast out stagnant thought patterns and perspectives that aren't true and holding you back, confusing you

get 50% or more calories from carbohydrate, and try to consume rich, non watery foods as the majority. If you are to drink juice for example, balance it with cheese or an otherwise dense non watery source, don't get to that point where the appetite is too diluted and focus starts going down by over consuming water to calorie
ratio. You actually slow your metabolism when you do this. I digest and burn a denser food a little faster than a lesser dense that is more watery...rather, it gives my body more an edge to move water at will and quickly, and all the water soluble nutrients in it. Plain water, watery water, just sort of sits...your body has to throw its on solutes (if there is any) at it to try to expell it, and it takes energy.

If you get really thirsty after a small thing, use less salt. You should be able to finish something and need no more than a sip two, maybe 3 ounces of water at most. If you need more and mouth is parched, you used too much salt. Salt can actually become heavy. Just lightly dust anything with salt if you use it. Calories to water is WAY more important than adding extra salt to anything
 

superhuman

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Thanx pboy.

But sodium is also important for metabolism and as RP has written he says hypo people need more salt but i guess if it makes you more thirsty its a catch 22.

I agree totally with you in regards to the calorie model and want to escape it and eat for energy instead its just that for me i have an insane appetite and if i start to eat calorie dense foods i can eat insane amounts. Esp when they are good amount off sugars in them and some fat. Thats why protein for regulating appetite is key tho since it makes you fuller alot faster and also is the macro nutrients of the 3 that has been proven to give the most thermic effect from food. Scientist even claim its 3.2 kcal instead of 4 but yeah anyway.

But say skim milk is even more watery then most fruits in terms of fluid/calories balance.

Also getting enough protein is super important in terms of cell structure like you talk about, edema etc. I notice when i increase protein and sodium my water retention goes down. I know eat at around 200g protein a day only from dairy sources ofc. Since im working out alot and trying to loose some fat to become really ripped.

Alot of the people that try the higher denser foods to calorie model somewhat like Matt Stone talks about? im not sure you are saying the same thing he does but they gain fat like crazy and that is not a good sign
 

pboy

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skim milk is watery yes, even 2%...even cows milk, whole, is a hint watery compared to human

salt isn't the answer man, and protein is important but not that big a deal unless you go under like 50 - 60 grams

I can tell you this, im 5 11, 130, fit, I never excersize, im on the computer most of the day, yet at any given time I can spring to my feet and start sprinting. I never fear gaining weight. I take a ***t upon wake like clockwork. So its kind of like...I don't trust the science, its up to the science at this point to figure me out, if they want. Im good

Im sure theres a lot more to it, no dobut there is, everything is involved from my perspective on life, and how I feel in my conscience. But even getting too watery for me, low energy, is a huge annoyance. A huge part of what makes me happy to live through the whole day is maintaining this balance in a good way. I don't like talking about myself, but sometimes people I feel would benefit from walking breathing truth, rather than science...which is only trying to figure out what is already true, what is already happening. The best science could ever hope for would be to understand the depth of what your intuition and feeling, nature, is already doing

it took me years and going through near hell many times, experimenting and staying with courage and composure...through many many assaults. In the end, I just honed what I already felt inside...science helped me sometimes, sometimes it just added more layers of ***t I had to eventually throw out
 

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