Cautionary Note About Seriphos

BingDing

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I've had a very weird summer, just want to post this for posterity.

Tried Seriphos (phosphorylated serine) in early June. A few days later I got on three weeks of persistent diarrhea, with no other symptoms, no stomach upset or flu-like symptoms. Cyproheptadine, 4 mg ondasetron didn't help, 1 TBS activated charcoal slowed me down for 24 hours. Finally 8 mg of ondasetron stopped the runs.

Of course I read every diarrhea thread we have; and my conclusion? thebigPeatowski is my hero! Her garlic cure will forever stand as the highest standard of the "suck it up, get some spine, do what you need to" mantra of the boyos.

Anyway, I've got some blood work done lately and my serotonin level came back at 532 ng/mL. Normal range is 90-195 ng/mL. Carcinoid syndrome range is 500-3500. Crud, I said.

There isn't a whole lot of research about Seriphos published. This page says, in the comments section, that the closely related Phosphatidyl serine can increase levels of neurotransmitters (acetylcholine, dopamine, serotonin).

It also says the decrease in cortisol levels relates to exercise induced increases in cortisol, which isn't the same as night time, sleep problems with cortisol. So Seriphos might not be a solution to anything I/we care about.
 

Dayman

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I have been trying Seriphos by interplexus and have had none of the problem you describe so hopefully it stays that way.
How much did you take?
Do you think something else could have caused the problem? bad food? Flu?
The first time I tried it was when I came across The Mood Cure by Julia Ross but at the time it didn't do anything, this time around it is helping me stay asleep or get back to sleep if I wake in the middle of the night.

I'm surprised that there has not been more discussion here about phosphorylated serine.

Here is an Excerpt I found in ebay :)
Excerpts & Abstracts on the Use of Phosphorylated Serine

"Summary
The early cortisol escape phenomenon observed after administration of 1 mg of dexamethasone in 50% of the elderly subjects in the study was reversed by two months therapy with Phosphatidyl Serine (PS), 3x100 mg tablets daily. An action of the compound at the neurotransmitter level is hypothesized. A number of alterations of the **HPAA was detectable in the study in normal elderly subjects; abnormal elevation of basal morning cortisol values (3 subjects); disruption of the circadian cortisol pattern (4 subjects); early cortisol escape phenomenon observed in seven of our subjects. A true nonsuppression was visible only in two individuals. Therefore, the early cortisol escape phenomenon appears to be the most consistent abnormality found in their subjects.

The question of contribution of non-specific stress factors to cortisol hypersecretion obviously cannot be ruled out. However, in their opinion, an intrinsic neuro-endocrine disturbance, which may be part of a central dysfunction associated with aging, could be at the root of a substantial part of the hypersecretion.

According to the membrane hypothesis of aging, age-dependent changes of the membranes can negatively interfere with trophism of the neurons, with cell to cell communication and ultimately with neurotransmission and thus with most functions linked to neurotransmission, including hormonal secretion.

According to Massarotti, PS seems to stimulate some sort of morphogenetic neuronal plasticity, which acts as a compensatory adaptive mechanism to cell deterioration, and is capable of preventing or delaying the age dependent decline of neurotransmitter function. On the basis of their findings they can speculate that existence of an analogous mechanism which acts on neurotransmission similar to that observed in animals treated with PS.

However, when they consider the impairment of HPAA as a marker of a more central neurotransmitter imbalance, they can suppose that the re-adjustment of such an altered parameter, although partial, may be brought about by some action at the neurotransmitter level.

Summary
We treated 149 patients meeting criteria of age associated memory impairment (AAMI) for 12 weeks with a formulation of Phosphatidyl Serine (100-150mg PS bid) or placebo.

Patients treated with the compound improved, relative to those untreated, with learning and memory tasks of daily life.

Analysis of clinical subgroup suggested that persons within the sample who performed at a relatively low level prior to treatment were most likely to respond to PS. Within this subgroup, there was improvement on both computerized and standard neuropsychological performance tests, and also on clinical global ratings of improvement. The results suggest that the compound may be a promising candidate for treating memory loss in later life."
 

honeybee

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I used one bottle off and on for a few months to help with insomnia. It helped a lot- actually if was a godsend at the time. It was a tool I needed last year to help me and it worked. No longer need it. I also did not have any adverse symptoms or effects.
 

Stuart

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Does anyone else try to ensure intake of phosphatidyl serine from brains etc. for the neurological benefits - across the board neuro benefits purportedly but partcularly neuroprotective, memory and sleep quality/ease? Perhaps there are other benefits/ problems from brain tissue or P.S. consumption that I'm not aware of.
 
OP
BingDing

BingDing

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Tennessee, USA
In hindsight, this was just a wild assed guess and is probably wrong. I was a little stressed out at the time and Seriphos was one thing I had changed before the diarrhea. But I only took it for a few days and not in any kind of megadose.

I'll probably never know what caused such high serotonin levels. One possibility is low sodium, since salt restriction is serotonergic, a link to a study is here.

I had a couple misadventures with getting enough salt early in my Peat experience and had settled into "salt to taste" as a good guide. I was eating a lot of foods at that time that needed salt, like eggs, broth, potatoes, meat, etc. But my taste for those foods diminished over time and so my salt intake went to very low levels.

I had another bout of persistent diarrhea a few months ago, when I realized low salt might be a cause. I started using two teaspoons of salt in a cup of water every day, sipping it throughout the day, and am doing fine now.

Hard to know just what happened, as usual.
 

narouz

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Jul 22, 2012
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Stuart said:
Does anyone else try to ensure intake of phosphatidyl serine from brains etc. for the neurological benefits - across the board neuro benefits purportedly but partcularly neuroprotective, memory and sleep quality/ease? Perhaps there are other benefits/ problems from brain tissue or P.S. consumption that I'm not aware of.

I guess this is a form of PUFA?
I would think so,
because it is derived from soy lecithin,
and Peat has said that is a kind of PUFA, right?
And I guess it is also part of the supposed cell membrane,
the existence of which Peat (and Ling) dispute?


from Wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphatidylserine

Phosphatidylserine (abbreviated Ptd-L-Ser or PS) is an important phospholipid membrane component (i.e. component of the cell membrane) which plays a key role in cell cycle signaling, specifically in relationship to apoptosis.

Cell signaling
Phosphatidylserine(s) are actively held facing the cytosolic (inner) side of the cell membrane by the enzyme flippase. This is in contrast to normal behavior of phospholipids in the cell membrane which can freely flip their heads between the two faces of the membrane they comprise. However, when a cell undergoes apoptosis phosphatidylserine is no longer restricted to the cytosolic domain by flippase. When the phosphatidylserines naturally flip to the extracellular (outer) surface of the cell, they act as a signal for macrophages to engulf the cells.[1]
 

Stuart

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Messages
317
narouz said:
Stuart said:
Does anyone else try to ensure intake of phosphatidyl serine from brains etc. for the neurological benefits - across the board neuro benefits purportedly but partcularly neuroprotective, memory and sleep quality/ease? Perhaps there are other benefits/ problems from brain tissue or P.S. consumption that I'm not aware of.

I guess this is a form of PUFA?
I would think so,
because it is derived from soy lecithin,
and Peat has said that is a kind of PUFA, right?
And I guess it is also part of the supposed cell membrane,
the existence of which Peat (and Ling) dispute?


from Wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphatidylserine

Phosphatidylserine (abbreviated Ptd-L-Ser or PS) is an important phospholipid membrane component (i.e. component of the cell membrane) which plays a key role in cell cycle signaling, specifically in relationship to apoptosis.

Cell signaling
Phosphatidylserine(s) are actively held facing the cytosolic (inner) side of the cell membrane by the enzyme flippase. This is in contrast to normal behavior of phospholipids in the cell membrane which can freely flip their heads between the two faces of the membrane they comprise. However, when a cell undergoes apoptosis phosphatidylserine is no longer restricted to the cytosolic domain by flippase. When the phosphatidylserines naturally flip to the extracellular (outer) surface of the cell, they act as a signal for macrophages to engulf the cells.[1]

Thanks Narouz
Oops. Oh well. Perhaps you might also be able to clarify something else for me. All the pufas in the human body, for example in the brain - which seems to be mainly cholesterol and pufa - are generated (and regenerated constantly (like all the cells in the body) from some other dietary substrate are they? So even if you don't eat ANY pufa, your body can still provide the pufas that various body parts have high concentrations of? Is this where the 'mead acid' Peat talks about comes in?
 

narouz

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Stuart said:
Thanks Narouz
Oops. Oh well. Perhaps you might also be able to clarify something else for me. All the pufas in the human body, for example in the brain - which seems to be mainly cholesterol and pufa - are generated (and regenerated constantly (like all the cells in the body) from some other dietary substrate are they? So even if you don't eat ANY pufa, your body can still provide the pufas that various body parts have high concentrations of? Is this where the 'mead acid' Peat talks about comes in?

We were kinda talking about this a little over in the other thread.
EnoreeG, mostly.

I don't really know the answers, Stuart.
But I'd like to know more about this area.
I would like to hear what Peat says the contents of a healthy brain should be.
I've heard/read him say that the age/disease related "brown fat" or lipofuscum
turns up in the brain
just as it does in other areas of the body,
and it's not a good sign anywhere.

And I heard him say in a radio interview
that if you analyze the contents of a human brain these days
you find a lot of chicken fat and fish oil.
Certainly he didn't see that as a good thing.

And I heard him talking about a French experiment where
scientists fed infants lot of PUFA--I think fish oil--
because, I think, they found a lot of PUFA in brains
and drew from that the notion that more PUFA would make smarter, bigger brains.
But...the results were the opposite of what they expected:
smaller brains, lower IQ.

So...I don't know what to think of these claims that brains are always a certain percentage of PUFA.
Maybe healthy brains from people eating low PUFA diets would not have much brain PUFA.

edit: I just wanted to revise a bit some details of the French baby experiment
I discussed above.
I was listening to...I think it was "Cellular Repair" with The Herb Doctors, today.
I had it a little wrong, or maybe just incomplete.
The doctors--I guess knowing that human brains tend to have a lot of PUFA--
did tests on some very young babies
and found that they were "PUFA deficient."
(Peat elaborated about how the placenta protects the babies from PUFA in the womb.)
So, working from that idea of PUFA deficiency,
the doctors added PUFA to the food of the babies,
hoping to see increased brain size and function.
But...nopesters.
 

Stuart

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Jun 19, 2015
Messages
317
narouz said:
We were kinda talking about this a little over in the other thread.
EnoreeG, mostly.

I don't really know the answers, Stuart.
But I'd like to know more about this area.
I would like to hear what Peat says the contents of a healthy brain should be.
I've heard/read him say that the age/disease related "brown fat" or lipofuscum
turns up in the brain
just as it does in other areas of the body,
and it's not a good sign anywhere.

And I heard him say in a radio interview
that if you analyze the contents of a human brain these days
you find a lot of chicken fat and fish oil.
Certainly he didn't see that as a good thing.

And I heard him talking about a French experiment where
scientists fed infants lot of PUFA--I think fish oil--
because, I think, they found a lot of PUFA in brains
and drew from that the notion that more PUFA would make smarter, bigger brains.
But...the results were the opposite of what they expected:
smaller brains, lower IQ.

So...I don't know what to think of these claims that brains are always a certain percentage of PUFA.
Maybe healthy brains from people eating low PUFA diets would not have much brain PUFA.

The thing I'm intrigued by is that on even a very strict (it's O.K. Such_ 'strict' isn't necessarily a negative word :) ) you still consume a small amount of pufa. Shellfish contains reasonabe amounts. So do pasture fed eggs. Grass fed beef too, and in a much better n3/n6 ratio than grain fed as well. In In fact throughout human history we have consumed very little pufa. Just not 'none'.
Maybe the small amounts we get in a typical Peat diet are ideal? Taking the hormetic perspective I suppose.
Even radiation is healthy in the right dose.
 

mas

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Feb 12, 2014
Messages
148
Stuart, radiation is not safe at any dose so don't believe any propaganda that it is safe.

________________________________________

Bone Density: First Do No Harm
Ray Peat

X-rays do their harm at any dose; there is no threshold at which the harm begins.

X-ray damage is not limited to the area being investigated. Deflected x-rays affect adjacent areas, and toxins produced by irradiated cells travel in the bloodstream, causing systemic effects. Dental x-rays cause thyroid cancer and eye cancer. Recent experiments have shown that low doses of radiation cause delayed death of brain cells. The action of x-rays produces tissue inflammation, and diseases as different as Alzheimer’s disease and heart disease result from prolonged inflammatory processes.

________________

Dr. John Gofman, A Nuclear Researcher
Who Refuses To Lie About Radiation Dangers

]There is no safe dose.

Gofman describes the Department of Energy's wish list which is to sell to the public the following beliefs:

• Hormesis: that a little radiation is good for you.

• If hormesis can not be sold to the public, the next best outcome would be evidence supporting a threshold dose of radiation below which no harm at all occurs. (This has become exceedingly common since Chernobyl.)

• If neither of these can be sold to the public, the next best "product" is the claim that a dose of radiation is far less harmful if it is received slowly over time, than if the same dose is received all at once. (Since 1980, the false claim that radiation received over time is two to ten times less harmful than in a single dose is invoked to reduce the cancers to the atomic bomb by a factor of up to ten and is applied to predictions about the slow doses from Chernobyl.)

http://www.ratical.org/radiation/NGP/DrJohnGofman.html
 

Stuart

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Messages
317
mas said:
Stuart, radiation is not safe at any dose so don't believe any propaganda that it is safe.

________________________________________
The earth is made up of minerals, some of which are radioactive. And the surface of the earth and everything on it has always been irradiated from space. Similar to pufas. Humans have always consumed them in small amounts. You can look at it from the other perspective too. Substances which are safe at one dose are extremely toxic at another. Like water.
I'm certainly not referring to radiation doses that have existed since we so comprehensively stuffed up the development of fission/fusion. That's just humans meddling with things they don't seem quite sophisticated enough to mess with. Pity though. It'a very clean energy if we weren't so prone as a species to be driven by greed, aggression, or both.
 

tara

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Mar 29, 2014
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10,368
Stuart said:
mas said:
Stuart, radiation is not safe at any dose so don't believe any propaganda that it is safe.

________________________________________
The earth is made up of minerals, some of which are radioactive. And the surface of the earth and everything on it has always been irradiated from space. Similar to pufas. Humans have always consumed them in small amounts. You can look at it from the other perspective too. Substances which are safe at one dose are extremely toxic at another. Like water.
I'm certainly not referring to radiation doses that have existed since we so comprehensively stuffed up the development of fission/fusion. That's just humans meddling with things they don't seem quite sophisticated enough to mess with. Pity though. It'a very clean energy if we weren't so prone as a species to be driven by greed, aggression, or both.

Just because something exists in the environment naturally, and humans have been exposed to it and survived, doesn't mean it is safe, let alone beneficial. There are places on Earth that humans have learned to avoid living on long before humans learned to artificially produce extra radiation, that turned out to have higher radiation when we eventually learned to measure.
 

tara

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Stuart said:
Does anyone else try to ensure intake of phosphatidyl serine from brains etc. for the neurological benefits - across the board neuro benefits purportedly but partcularly neuroprotective, memory and sleep quality/ease? Perhaps there are other benefits/ problems from brain tissue or P.S. consumption that I'm not aware of.
I have not learned about or sought phosphatidyl serine, but I've been known to eat brains on rare occasion, just for variety. If there are problems with this I'd like to know too.
 

smith

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Supposedly, phosphatidylserine regenerates and induces neurogenesis in the hippocampus a la Longecity, and is hopefully a safer alternative to the much more experimental and obscure NSI-189, memantine, and other suspect nootropinautical drugs
 
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