Asthma

Javelina

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Aug 9, 2014
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I have chronic low-grade asthma. It used to be worse but vitamin d and magnesium brought it down from occasionally full blown asthma attacks to this chronic annoying stage I live with now. I find that coffee helps but doesn't completely do the trick. I recently started peating and although it has improved my general well being, it seems to have ha no positive effects on the chronic asthma. Recently also began adding some t3 but that hasn't helped either.

I have tried Buteyko in the past but it didn't help. A 20mg dose of hydrocortisone does help but it's not something I like to use. I'm otherwise healthy and not obese. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.
 

Wilfrid

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Hi Javelina,

Welcome to the forum.
I would suggest you to give tianeptine a try.
It's probably the more effective treatment of asthma. Are you aware of the clinical work of Dr Fuad Lechín?
To date, I think that he's the only one who used with incredible success this drug ,in clinical pratice, to treat asthma.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?ter ... ine+asthma

But the most difficult part is to find any M.D that would agree to treat you with it...
The other option is to take the drug by yourself.... but the side effects of tianeptine (usually dosage dependent...) are not to be underestimated.
Another forum member, Haidut, made also very interesting post on B6 and zinc for treating asthma. But this route is also a tricky one...as even minor content of ions of such elements as iron, copper, zinc (as supplements) produce catalytic effect on oxidative decomposition of many vitamins....pyridoxine hydrochloride ( as supplement) being one of them...I asked, once, Ray about zinc supplementation and his answer mentioned the fact that supplemental zinc could oxydise vitamins in the intestine, so one has to be careful when supplementing with it.
The most important thing about this is, I think, to not use supplemental zinc and B6 mixed in the same tablet/capsule ( as the B6 can't be counted on) but rather in the (separated) liquid form for each and to take the vitamin/mineral separetely at different time of the day.
I'm sure other members will soon chime in and will make other suggestions as well. :D
 

Mittir

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Feb 20, 2013
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Welcome to the forum
RP mentioned that serotonin is one of the major cause of asthma. He recommends lowering
serotonin over-production in gut by following a low tryptophan diet with easily digestible foods.
Avoiding allergenic foods, starch and soluble fiber are very helpful in lowering gut irritation.
You can use daily raw carrot salad or cooked bamboo shoot to lower endotoxin which increases
serotonin,estrogen and other stress hormones. Have you tested your thyroid numbers?
Calcium can be very helpful in lowering serotonin. Calcium, Vitamin D and vitamin K are needed
to suppress PTH hormone. RP recommends 1200 to 2000 mg of calcium daily either from milk, cheese
or from egg shell powder/ oyster shell powder. I find this very helpful and i have never seen anyone
else recommending calcium to treat asthma and allergy.
RP also recommends Tianeptine and other serotonin lowering drugs like Cyproheptadine.
I have used very low dose cypro half to one fourth mg per day with good results.
I get upset stomach at higher dose. Bag breathing seems easier than buteyko and quite helpful.
Bag breathing 2-3 times a day 1-2 minutes. Keeping blood sugar steady with small frequent meals
of carb, protein and fat can help a lot. Niacinamide 50-100 mg 2-3 times a day with meal
can inhibit stored PUFA release and that helps everything. Avoiding PUFA is essential to lower inflammation.
I try to keep PUFA intake below 4 grams per day. You can use cronometer to track your
nutrient intake. RP thinks most commercial supplements have allergenic excipeints.
Avoiding bad supplement can resolve asthma problem in some people.
Here is a link to RP's general dietary guideline.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20
 

Wilfrid

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@Mittir,

I think that Carey Reams and his followers, since his death, have also made the link between calcium, asthma and allergies of all kind. And he used to consider all those diseases link to a calcium deficiency. His goal was to correct the calcium deficiency as he considered it as the most essential and crucial mineral for health.

http://www.brixman.com/uploads/1/4/6/9/ ... pages1.pdf
 

pboy

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Jan 22, 2013
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just curious...how long have you had the asthma and what was the diet like before Peat?

I used to have slight asthma as a kid, even up until early 20's...then I became vegan and watching what kind of chemicals I was using, it went away entirely...I ran into other problems with that, ended up finding Peat, and it hasn't ever come back. And to mention, ive smoked throughout every phase (albeit pipe and pure) but that didn't actually effect it either way...basically I think the diet and lack of chemicals being used is what helped. I never pinpointed which part of the diet changes actually caused it to recover though
 
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Javelina

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Aug 9, 2014
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Wilfrid said:
Hi Javelina,

Welcome to the forum.
I would suggest you to give tianeptine a try.
It's probably the more effective treatment of asthma. Are you aware of the clinical work of Dr Fuad Lechín?
To date, I think that he's the only one who used with incredible success this drug ,in clinical pratice, to treat asthma.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?ter ... ine+asthma

But the most difficult part is to find any M.D that would agree to treat you with it...
The other option is to take the drug by yourself.... but the side effects of tianeptine (usually dosage dependent...) are not to be underestimated.
Another forum member, Haidut, made also very interesting post on B6 and zinc for treating asthma. But this route is also a tricky one...as even minor content of ions of such elements as iron, copper, zinc (as supplements) produce catalytic effect on oxidative decomposition of many vitamins....pyridoxine hydrochloride ( as supplement) being one of them...I asked, once, Ray about zinc supplementation and his answer mentioned the fact that supplemental zinc could oxydise vitamins in the intestine, so one has to be careful when supplementing with it.
The most important thing about this is, I think, to not use supplemental zinc and B6 mixed together in the tablet form ( as the B6 can't be counted on) but rather in the (separated) liquid form for each and to take the vitamin/mineral separetely at different time of the day.
I'm sure other members will soon chime in and will make other suggestions as well. :D

I actually tried tianeptine many years ago and I don't recall it having a beneficial effect on my asthma much to my disappointment. I can try it again as my asthma is milder than it was back then. I have also taken Life Extension Mix capsules which contain both B6 and zinc with no apparent change. FWIW, I have also noticed that opiates improve my asthma but for obvious reasons that's not a feasible solution. Finally, antihistamines seem to have zero effect. Anyone know what opiates and hydrocortisone have in common?
 
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Javelina

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pboy said:
just curious...how long have you had the asthma and what was the diet like before Peat?
I've had asthma since childhood. Over the years I've tried SAD, low fat, Atkins, paleo and recently Peat. As already noted I think that increasing vitamin d from 200iu to about 5000iu had the biggest effect. I can honestly say that none of the diets made a noticeable difference with regard to asthma oddly enough.
 

Wilfrid

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Nov 26, 2012
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@Javelina,

I think that the tianeptine effectiveness is dose dependant, though....
When you tried tianeptine, was it your doctor prescription for treating your asthma?
Did you take it because you knew that it could be a possible treatment for it? What was the dosage then?
As for the B6/ Zinc stuff, I think that using them separetely, and in liquid form ( as in Eidon liquid zinc sulphate and Epigenetics liquids B6 / P5P ( UK based supplier) ) would be more effective and safer. Putting drops on the back of the hand and licking those, as to avoid as much as possible the liver route, to minimize also any interactions and /or absorption problem in the gut.

http://www.epigenetics-international.co ... -Phosphate)_100ml/

http://www.iherb.com/eidon-mineral-supp ... 0-ml/26016
 

Peata

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Besides what's been mentioned, consider that it may be estrogen dominance. If you're female, do you notice worsening at certain times of your cycle?
 
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Javelina

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Peata said:
Besides what's been mentioned, consider that it may be estrogen dominance. If you're female, do you notice worsening at certain times of your cycle?

I'm a male. :roll:
 

Wilfrid

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Javelina said:
pboy said:
just curious...how long have you had the asthma and what was the diet like before Peat?
I've had asthma since childhood. Over the years I've tried SAD, low fat, Atkins, paleo and recently Peat. As already noted I think that increasing vitamin d from 200iu to about 5000iu had the biggest effect. I can honestly say that none of the diets made a noticeable difference with regard to asthma oddly enough.

When there is any inflammation diseases ( and asthma is one of them), high dose supplemental vitamin D ( via the increase production of 1,25-D ) often work by its "immunosuppresive" effects.I think that, in your case, vitamin D is acting by the same action as the corticosteroids...hence, the noticeable effect you get from it.
A forum member, Suikerbuik, made the most interesting posts ( in my opinion ) on that subject.


"....The symptom relief some experience with higher levels of 25-D likely happens because 25-D increases production of 1,25-D which can suppress immune system function and reduce inflammatory symptoms related to the immune system's efforts to eliminate intracellular pathogens..."


https://chronicillnessrecovery.org/inde ... cle&id=223
 
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Javelina

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Wilfrid said:
Javelina said:
pboy said:
just curious...how long have you had the asthma and what was the diet like before Peat?
I've had asthma since childhood. Over the years I've tried SAD, low fat, Atkins, paleo and recently Peat. As already noted I think that increasing vitamin d from 200iu to about 5000iu had the biggest effect. I can honestly say that none of the diets made a noticeable difference with regard to asthma oddly enough.

When there is any inflammation diseases ( and asthma is one of them), high dose supplemental vitamin D ( via the increase production of 1,25-D ) often work by its "immunosuppresive" effects.I think that, in your case, vitamin D is acting by the same action as the corticosteroids...hence, the noticeable effect you get from it.
A forum member, Suikerbuik, made the most interesting posts ( in my opinion ) on that subject.


"....The symptom relief some experience with higher levels of 25-D likely happens because 25-D increases production of 1,25-D which can suppress immune system function and reduce inflammatory symptoms related to the immune system's efforts to eliminate intracellular pathogens..."


https://chronicillnessrecovery.org/inde ... cle&id=223

It's possible but I also haven't been sick (as in getting a cold or the flu in years) so if it's suppressing my immune system it doesn't seem to be doing a fantastic job of it. :D
 

newpeatie

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Getting PUFA intake as low as you can will help asthma. The unsaturated fats are necessary to create the prostaglandins and leukotrienes. Acid reflux can sometimes cause asthma and doesn't respond to usual medications. Pregnenolone is a safer med than steroid. Magnesium is a smooth muscle relaxant and will help. Bump up magnesium intake.
 
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Javelina

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newpeatie said:
Getting PUFA intake as low as you can will help asthma. The unsaturated fats are necessary to create the prostaglandins and leukotrienes. Acid reflux can sometimes cause asthma and doesn't respond to usual medications. Pregnenolone is a safer med than steroid. Magnesium is a smooth muscle relaxant and will help. Bump up magnesium intake.

I haven't noticed much if any difference since I cut most of the PUFA out of my diet but I'll try and take it up a notch higher. FWIW, I tried an anti-leukotriene medication (Singulair) soon after it was approved for asthma many years ago and it didn't seem to help at all which is not that unusual. I also think I'm pretty much near my bowel tolerance on the magnesium already.
 
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Javelina

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Wilfrid said:
@Mittir,

I think that Carey Reams and his followers, since his death, have also made the link between calcium, asthma and allergies of all kind. And he used to consider all those diseases link to a calcium deficiency. His goal was to correct the calcium deficiency as he considered it as the most essential and crucial mineral for health.

http://www.brixman.com/uploads/1/4/6/9/ ... pages1.pdf

Wilfrid,

did a bit more looking into Carey Reams and it looks like a total rabbit hole with several tests required just to figure out which kind of calcium among many that you supposedly need. I'm willing to give calcium a shot, but I just can't see getting started with yet more testing and on ideas that sound a bit out there to begin with. If you or anyone else reading this is somewhat conversant on the Reams' approach, perhaps there's a 'neutral' form of calcium that isn't THE perfect variety for me but is usually helpful to most everyone with asthma or allergies, please post. I'll try it and report back so that others dealing with asthma may get some insight. Thanks.
 

Blossom

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Everything has pretty much been covered but I just wanted to mention that cyproheptadine works as both an antihistamine and anti-anti-serotonin agent. I have used it with great results (though not for breathing). It might be worth looking into if you haven't yet and if other antihistamines didn't seem helpful. I believe that the benefit you feel from the steroids and the opiates are probably working in different ways but seem similar in the result. The steroid is anti-inflammatory which will allow for ease of breathing by resulting in less swelling in the airways. Opiates can slow the breathing somewhat which could possibly increase your CO2. I'm not sure what other effects the opiates would have unless it might be allowing you to relax. As you mentioned both are not ideal long term solutions. I've often wondered how Peat would feel about the inhaled anticholinergic medicines. There are anticholinergic breathing medicines in use today as long-acting bronchodilators. I know Peat has written about anticholinergic medicines as beneficial in certain contexts but I've never read or listened to any of his work where he speaks about their use in inhaled form or for breathing specifically. It's another avenue to research if you so choose while you work on implementing the diet and lifestyle changes that will really give the best chance of healing your problem for good. That is just my own personal thought on what I might consider researching if I needed a pharma drug for asthma during the healing process (not a recommendation by Peat himself).
I have been using the homemade eggshell calcium that I make from eggshells. I like it because there are no additives that can be bothersome in store bought calcium supplements. Good luck!
 
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Javelina

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Blossom said:
Everything has pretty much been covered but I just wanted to mention that cyproheptadine works as both an antihistamine and anti-anti-serotonin agent. I have used it with great results (though not for breathing). It might be worth looking into if you haven't yet and if other antihistamines didn't seem helpful. I believe that the benefit you feel from the steroids and the opiates are probably working in different ways but seem similar in the result. The steroid is anti-inflammatory which will allow for ease of breathing by resulting in less swelling in the airways. Opiates can slow the breathing somewhat which could possibly increase your CO2. I'm not sure what other effects the opiates would have unless it might be allowing you to relax. As you mentioned both are not ideal long term solutions. I've often wondered how Peat would feel about the inhaled anticholinergic medicines. There are anticholinergic breathing medicines in use today as long-acting bronchodilators. I know Peat has written about anticholinergic medicines as beneficial in certain contexts but I've never read or listened to any of his work where he speaks about their use in inhaled form or for breathing specifically. It's another avenue to research if you so choose while you work on implementing the diet and lifestyle changes that will really give the best chance of healing your problem for good. That is just my own personal thought on what I might consider researching if I needed a pharma drug for asthma during the healing process (not a recommendation by Peat himself).
I have been using the homemade eggshell calcium that I make from eggshells. I like it because there are no additives that can be bothersome in store bought calcium supplements. Good luck!

Thanks. I'll see if I can get my hands on some cyproheptadine and will report back on the results at a future date.
 
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Javelina

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Javelina said:
Blossom said:
Everything has pretty much been covered but I just wanted to mention that cyproheptadine works as both an antihistamine and anti-anti-serotonin agent. I have used it with great results (though not for breathing). It might be worth looking into if you haven't yet and if other antihistamines didn't seem helpful. I believe that the benefit you feel from the steroids and the opiates are probably working in different ways but seem similar in the result. The steroid is anti-inflammatory which will allow for ease of breathing by resulting in less swelling in the airways. Opiates can slow the breathing somewhat which could possibly increase your CO2. I'm not sure what other effects the opiates would have unless it might be allowing you to relax. As you mentioned both are not ideal long term solutions. I've often wondered how Peat would feel about the inhaled anticholinergic medicines. There are anticholinergic breathing medicines in use today as long-acting bronchodilators. I know Peat has written about anticholinergic medicines as beneficial in certain contexts but I've never read or listened to any of his work where he speaks about their use in inhaled form or for breathing specifically. It's another avenue to research if you so choose while you work on implementing the diet and lifestyle changes that will really give the best chance of healing your problem for good. That is just my own personal thought on what I might consider researching if I needed a pharma drug for asthma during the healing process (not a recommendation by Peat himself).
I have been using the homemade eggshell calcium that I make from eggshells. I like it because there are no additives that can be bothersome in store bought calcium supplements. Good luck!

Thanks. I'll see if I can get my hands on some cyproheptadine and will report back on the results at a future date.

PS- What dosage of cyproheptadine does one use?
 

Wilfrid

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Javelina said:
Wilfrid said:
@Mittir,

I think that Carey Reams and his followers, since his death, have also made the link between calcium, asthma and allergies of all kind. And he used to consider all those diseases link to a calcium deficiency. His goal was to correct the calcium deficiency as he considered it as the most essential and crucial mineral for health.

http://www.brixman.com/uploads/1/4/6/9/ ... pages1.pdf

Wilfrid,

did a bit more looking into Carey Reams and it looks like a total rabbit hole with several tests required just to figure out which kind of calcium among many that you supposedly need. I'm willing to give calcium a shot, but I just can't see getting started with yet more testing and on ideas that sound a bit out there to begin with. If you or anyone else reading this is somewhat conversant on the Reams' approach, perhaps there's a 'neutral' form of calcium that isn't THE perfect variety for me but is usually helpful to most everyone with asthma or allergies, please post. I'll try it and report back so that others dealing with asthma may get some insight. Thanks.

I'm not a specialist on the RBTI protocol either. I just read the book of Carey Reams (Choose! Life or Death : Reams Biological Theory of Ionization ) and the book of Beddoe. Tara just made a post about RBTI, maybe you can try to PM her if you want further infos about it as she seems familiar with Reams work.
As far as I can remember, the neutral calcium form would be the gluconate form. But unless you can find someone very well trained with this approach, I strongly suggest you to stick with Dr Peat recommendation. If you can find (or make) eggshell powder, like Mittir or Blossom recommends, it certainly be the calcium ( in a form of carbonate) of choice. But be careful with the dosage, especially if you're still using vitamin D without added vitamin K and vitamin A ( and, also, without enough dietary zinc ). Haidut is making a product called Estroban which include all those three lipo-soluble vitamins plus the vitamin E. The use of cron.o.meter, like Mittir recommend, is a good start to check your vitamins/minerals status.

My point with the previous post above, about Reams and calcium, was to say that on the subject on the relations between calcium, asthma and allergies, Dr Peat was not the only one to made this connection.
As for the vitamin D stuff, I don't think that suppress immune system is always link to cold and flus occurence. During five years for my crohn's , I was on corticosteroids, Immuran then finally on remicade and humira shots, and guess what? I've got only one severe cold on December 2009 ( but I did suffer from several fistulas during the drugs course, though) just few months before I made my intestinal perforation...I believe, thanks to RP, that suffering from any disease which is, at least, alleviate by the use of corticosteroids is strongly linked with a immune system dysregulation ( and hormonal/ energy imbalance ).The correct word for the supplemental vitamin D activity, used in therapeuthic dosage, that I should have used is: "down regulating" the immune system instead of "immune suppressing". The research done with vitamin D on disease are inconstant and one should be prudent when supplementing with it. I know that Ray says that vitamin D is important for health ( and without any doubt it is) but I'm not really sure about the systemic supplementation with it. When Ray wrote " Nutrition for women", he was recommending the use of sardines (which is loaded with PUFA, and he already knew the deleterious effects of those at the time of book's writing) as a safe food source that should not interfere with thyroid function for colitis, regional enteritis and inflammation diseases ( bottom of the page 48), but now, I'm sure, he will never make this kind of advice. Same for the DHEA, that he used to recommend until he discovered that, in the wrong hormonal context, it could turn in harmful oestrogens. It's important to keep that in mind, as vitamin D, in the wrong hormonal context, could probably do more harm than good.
The immune suppressing and/or down-regulating effects of certains drugs ( chemo, corticosteroids...), foods ( PUFA, see Ray's aricles on it and their effects on the immune system) and supplements ( with proven activity against "auto-immune" diseases and/or diseases involving inflammation of any kind ,in dosage dependant manner, like omega 3, vitamin D ect....) are highly individual, but their (detrimental) effects are always here (as opposing one's body own homeostatis/hormonal regulation system, for ex: vitamin D being more a secosteroid hormone than a vitamin), though a "short" or , for those with robust health despite their sickness, "long" relief (it could be days, weeks or years...) of the inflammation usually occurs. But sooner or later, the body will break apart,I believe, with more serious health challenges (cancer, for ex).
The use of glucocorticoid hormones (like hydrocortisone) which are often used to treat inflammatory illnesses like asthma, or IBD, block the release of both corticotropin-releasing hormone (CRH) and ACTH. Normally, CRH instructs the pituitary gland to release ACTH. If CRH levels drop, the pituitary is not stimulated to release ACTH, and the adrenals then fail to secrete sufficient levels of cortisol. Have you made recently any blood test regarding your hormonal status? You may want to give pregnenolone a try as newpeatie suggest.

FWIW, my wife is eating whatever she wants ( with usually huge amount of immune suppressing craps like sunflowerseed oil, canola oil loaded prepared food stuff...) and ( you will have to truth me on this) she only missed one day of work during the last 10 years!! And it was due to restaurant food poisoning!!! So, I think that there is a larger picture here.....

Anyway, the most important thing is that you can finally feel better.
 

tara

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I'm interested in this too. One of my children gets occasional asthma. When you tried the Buteyko method, was it that you couldn't systematically improve your CP, or that you did but the asthma was just as bad? What was your experience with this?

Sometimes my child can interrupt it in early stages with breathing exercises - a series of short breath holds - sometimes that is enough to settle the coughing and get him to sleep through the night. I'm currently trying to motivate him to tape his mouth at night. When the tape stays on he doesn't cough at night. If those things don't help, we sometimes resort to inhalers. doesn't work we resort to inhalers.

I don't get asthma, but I think my own breathing has been easier since I started taping at night, supplementing calcium and progest-e.

Full RBTI testing is complicated. I think the most relevant of the RBTI tests for calcium supplementation is the urine pH test, best done a few times, not first thing in the morning. I supplement oyster shell and check pH occasionally. Ideally I'd like to stay slightly acid - roughly 6.4-6.8. The picture I am getting is that sometimes hyperventilation helps compensate for too acid a system, and supplementing calcium may help balance the pH so we don't have to hyperventilate so much. If the hyperventilation is provoking the asthma as a defensive mechanism, maybe that is part of why it sometimes helps.
 

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