The Only Hormone Or Anti-Oxidant You Actually Need

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I've split this thread from haidut's An Anti-Oxidant you actually need. I mean, I think this thread could also be called, "The Only Thread You Actually Need" but I didn't want to over-reach. ;)

SAFarmer said:
I have read Peat write a lot of the role of CO2 as anti-oxidant or helping to prevent free radicals forming. Not going to try and find all the quotes and references now.

Rob has done a good job of listing some references here:

http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/1 ... tioxidant/
I don't think there's any question that for Peat, and a century-old tradition of distinguished biomedical science, carbonates are the master controller of hormones and anti-oxidants, and really the only safe source that is virtually impossible to overdose on.

The larger question is how to supplement carbonates, which include CO2, bicarbonate, and even living at altitude and inhibition of carbonic anhydrase? Bag breathing is inconvenient and potentially hypoxic, and the CO2 from ingested bicarbonate tends to be released too early by stomach acid, while enemas or IV transfusions of bicarbonate are also inconvenient. Further, living at altitude may not be practical, and is limited in efficacy, while inhibitors of carbonic anhydrase are not safe in megadoses, due to potential side effects.

Really the only safe, practical solutions I've been able to find, after bio-hacking every idea I can find on the internet, is breathing CO2 from a paintball canister, and breathing sodium bicarbonate from a nebulizer or fast inhaler.

Both of these measurably increase exhaled CO2 to almost utopian levels*, as good or better than elite athletes can achieve at 3000m of altitude, and exhaled CO2 is a good measure of CO2 in the blood gases.

The only minor tweak may be, optionally, to check the pH of the urine: to reduce alkalinity, breathe more CO2; to reduce acidity, breathe more bicarbonate. But the body is hyper-efficient at buffering with carbonates, provided it has enough carbonates to buffer with, and so it's unlikely you'll ever see a urine pH that's outside of normal -- unless you just don't have enough carbonates in your body to make a proper buffer.

I guess maybe the takeaway here is, start slow, build up your buffer of carbonates, and then increase the amount of carbonates you are breathing, until your consciousness is regenerated, and you feel reborn.

*Granted you will want to eat your daily sugar, milk protein and salt, a few ounces of liver and gelatin, and saturated fat, with some coffee or cocoa, and maybe a grain or two of thyroid with your food. But you'll find that once your carbonates are high, you'll look at food like a child again, and eat what you need, when you need it.
 

SQu

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I'm thinking of trying bicarb in a nebulizer. Any indications of amount? I was thinking something like a quarter of a teaspoon in the saline I keep for nebulizing with. I have many indications of CO2 issues and thought I could try this at bedtime/a few breaths when I wake in the night. I could also get ph strips and check urine ph just in case.
 

SAFarmer

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visionofstrength said:
Really the only safe, practical solutions I've been able to find, after bio-hacking every idea I can find on the internet, is breathing CO2 from a paintball canister, and breathing sodium bicarbonate from a nebulizer or fast inhaler.

Both of these measurably increase exhaled CO2 to almost utopian levels*, as good or better than elite athletes can achieve at 3000m of altitude, and exhaled CO2 is a good measure of CO2 in the blood gases.

Great post.

I was looking at some options to build my own CO2 breather recently to try and test CO2 breathing at different concentrations for different durations during the day.

I like your idea of the paintball canisters. I guess you basically just need a lightweight CO2 cylinder like those you mention or aquarium types like the one I have posted below as an example. Then you just also need to screw a good quality regulator/controller on top and fit a little tubing into a small breathing mask like they use with nebulizers. Then you're ready to go experimenting !

CO2 cylinder:
http://aquaria.co.za/shop/index.php?mai ... ge&pID=859

Regulator:
http://www.istaproducts.com/details+CO2 ... ducts/223/

Nebulizer mask with tubing:
http://medical-consumables.com/images/N ... 20Mask.jpg
 

narouz

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This exploration is interesting.
I do wonder, though,
why Peat never explored it (apparently).
Especially considering he has bothered to buy CO2 tanks
and experimented with submerging his entire body save his head in CO2.

It would seem workable to me
to re-create a high altitude CO2 environment/levels--
in a room or enclosure.
Odd that he hasn't seemed interested in that avenue...
 

narouz

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I just wanted to hasten to add
that I may be misunderstanding the nature of CO2 enhancement
at high altitudes.
Is there more CO2 up there?
Or is it just that other factors cause the body to better hang on to CO2...?

I will try to answer my own questions by consulting Peat's writings on the subject
when I get the chance. :D
 
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narouz said:
I just wanted to hasten to add
that I may be misunderstanding the nature of CO2 enhancement
at high altitudes.
Is there more CO2 up there?
Or is it just that other factors cause the body to better hang on to CO2...?

I will try to answer my own questions by consulting Peat's writings on the subject
when I get the chance. :D
Great question, and thanks! I'm working to make explainer videos on topics that the community suggests in this thread. And I hope I can make one for this!

In the meanwhile, you may want to look at Peat's article called Altitude and Mortality, especially it's description of the Haldane effect, which suggests: Altitude -> lower partial pressure of oxygen in the air -> lower partial pressure of oxygen in the blood -> higher partial pressure of CO2 in the blood.
 
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sueq said:
I'm thinking of trying bicarb in a nebulizer. Any indications of amount? I was thinking something like a quarter of a teaspoon in the saline I keep for nebulizing with. I have many indications of CO2 issues and thought I could try this at bedtime/a few breaths when I wake in the night. I could also get ph strips and check urine ph just in case.
You can only dissolve 8 grams of sodium bicarbonate in 100 ml of water at room temperature, and the rest will precipitate to the bottom. So no worries about dissolving too much! when the nebulizer runs out, fill it up and do it again, until you feel better. You'll notice your rapid breathing will almost immediately start to slow from the increased carbonates in your blood.
 

SQu

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I gave it a bash last night. The nebulizer marks 7cc at maximum level. that seems to be approx 2 teaspoons water. So if I'd used it all I could have got .8g bicarb, but I used half. Didn't feel a difference immediately but from what you say here I didn't have enough. However during the night there was a slight improvement in that laboured loud breathing. I still woke, tossed, turned, ached, but in between got enough restful moments to make me relieved and grateful this morning. Am definitely going to do again tonight for longer! Thanks vision!
 

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visionofstrength said:
Really the only safe, practical solutions I've been able to find, after bio-hacking every idea I can find on the internet, is breathing CO2 from a paintball canister, and breathing sodium bicarbonate from a nebulizer or fast inhaler.

What would be the difference between that and a training mask? Training mask is as inconvenient as bag breathing, but safer and you can chose what elevation to simulate by modulating the intake air passage size.
 
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sueq said:
I gave it a bash last night. The nebulizer marks 7cc at maximum level. that seems to be approx 2 teaspoons water. So if I'd used it all I could have got .8g bicarb, but I used half. Didn't feel a difference immediately but from what you say here I didn't have enough. However during the night there was a slight improvement in that laboured loud breathing. I still woke, tossed, turned, ached, but in between got enough restful moments to make me relieved and grateful this morning. Am definitely going to do again tonight for longer! Thanks vision!
Good idea to be safe and start slowly! Take your time and count to see how long you naturally take between breaths. When you can easily take longer between breaths, but without straining to hold your breath, then you can tell the carbonates are working.
 
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jyb said:
visionofstrength said:
Really the only safe, practical solutions I've been able to find, after bio-hacking every idea I can find on the internet, is breathing CO2 from a paintball canister, and breathing sodium bicarbonate from a nebulizer or fast inhaler.

What would be the difference between that and a training mask? Training mask is as inconvenient as bag breathing, but safer and you can chose what elevation to simulate by modulating the intake air passage size.
Too much rebreathing in a training mask or bag leads to hypoxia, which Peat thinks is stressful or anti-thyroid.

I've tested some popular training masks with CO2 and O2 monitors and unfortunately, modulating the air passage does not simulate higher elevation as they claim, which would require reducing the partial pressure of O2 with some precision. Instead, it makes breathing very forceful and difficult, and for me, unenjoyable.

There is a proprietary device called the Spirotiger that costs several thousand dollars the last time I checked, which uses the same principles as the open source paintball canister device.
 

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This is great stuff visionofstrength! I think I might try the sodium bicarbonate nebulized tonight. Sodium bicarbonate breathing treatments are sometimes used in the 'medical' field. Nuet is one of the brand names of the sodium bicarbonate used for this purpose but it contains a preservative so making your own sounds not only easier but possibly safer! Do you sterilize the water you use?
I still think bag breathing is safe if Peat's recommendation to stop as soon as it becomes uncomfortable is followed. If what I learned in school is true then we are born with 4 times more oxygen in our systems ( 4 times greater carrying capacity) than we need. Most healthy adults should have a surplus of oxygen and be able to tolerate some reduction in the oxygen concentration of the air. Increasing the CO2 should also help enhance oxygenation. Extreme and prolonged hypoxia is no doubt dangerous but I think it's nearly impossible to become that hypoxic from bag breathing with a paper bag. Bag breathing is beautiful to me because nearly everyone regardless of financial situation can get their hands on a paper bag!
Thanks for sharing all of your insights and creations.
 
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Blossom said:
This is great stuff visionofstrength! I think I might try the sodium bicarbonate nebulized tonight. Sodium bicarbonate breathing treatments are sometimes used in the 'medical' field. Nuet is one of the brand names of the sodium bicarbonate used for this purpose but it contains a preservative so making your own sounds not only easier but possibly safer! Do you sterilize the water you use?
I still think bag breathing is safe if Peat's recommendation to stop as soon as it becomes uncomfortable is followed. If what I learned in school is true then we are born with 4 times more oxygen in our systems ( 4 times greater carrying capacity) than we need. Most healthy adults should have a surplus of oxygen and be able to tolerate some reduction in the oxygen concentration of the air. Increasing the CO2 should also help enhance oxygenation. Extreme and prolonged hypoxia is no doubt dangerous but I think it's nearly impossible to become that hypoxic from bag breathing with a paper bag. Bag breathing is beautiful to me because nearly everyone regardless of financial situation can get their hands on a paper bag!
Thanks for sharing all of your insights and creations.
Thanks, Blossom! I'm hoping to make explainer videos from the questions that the community posts here, and you've raised a few great ones. If as narouz has mentioned Peat is reluctant to pursue this kind of remedy, it may be that it involves some financial expense. I guess the idea of this video could be, how much bang for the buck? How much carbonates can you deliver with a paper bag, without reaching hypoxia?

Peat, for example, suggests 1 or 2 minutes of bag breathing, 3 or 4 times a day. In the video I'll try to guesstimate the amount of carbonates that might be delivered in that amount of time. Quickly, though, Peat acknowledges in the email repository recently that bag breathing could not yield the benefits of living at altitude.

The field of carbonates is wide open for experimentation, since there's little money to be made by pharmaceuticals from carbonates, and Peat invites us to experiment. If there is going to be a breakthrough, perhaps it could come from us!
 

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That is very generous of you to make videos! I'm very interested in this topic and CO2 has always been my favorite Peat subject. I do think Peat presents us with options that are affordable so that people are not excluded from benefiting from his work due to money constraints. I know too that you are right about him encouraging us to explore and experiment. I would be happy to try to help. I know a little bit about the typical respiratory equipment currently used in 'medicine'. If you have ideas you want to bounce off someone who has knowledge of that type feel free to pm me. Much of what I thought I knew as true about breathing I question these days but I have a bit of knowledge that might be somewhat useful. I would love to contribute to the advancement of understanding about CO2. I don't know how much I can help but I'm willing to try. There is a lot of misunderstanding on the subject in the mainstream.:D
 

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Blossom said:
That is very generous of you to make videos! I'm very interested in this topic and CO2 has always been my favorite Peat subject. I do think Peat presents us with options that are affordable so that people are not excluded from benefiting from his work due to money constraints. I know too that you are right about him encouraging us to explore and experiment. I would be happy to try to help. I know a little bit about the typical respiratory equipment currently used in 'medicine'. If you have ideas you want to bounce off someone who has knowledge of that type feel free to pm me. Much of what I thought I knew as true about breathing I question these days but I have a bit of knowledge that might be somewhat useful. I would love to contribute to the advancement of understanding about CO2. I don't know how much I can help but I'm willing to try. There is a lot of misunderstanding on the subject in the mainstream.:D

What effects do you get when you increase your CO2 through whatever means? Physical, mental effects.
 

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Peata said:
Blossom said:
That is very generous of you to make videos! I'm very interested in this topic and CO2 has always been my favorite Peat subject. I do think Peat presents us with options that are affordable so that people are not excluded from benefiting from his work due to money constraints. I know too that you are right about him encouraging us to explore and experiment. I would be happy to try to help. I know a little bit about the typical respiratory equipment currently used in 'medicine'. If you have ideas you want to bounce off someone who has knowledge of that type feel free to pm me. Much of what I thought I knew as true about breathing I question these days but I have a bit of knowledge that might be somewhat useful. I would love to contribute to the advancement of understanding about CO2. I don't know how much I can help but I'm willing to try. There is a lot of misunderstanding on the subject in the mainstream.:D

What effects do you get when you increase your CO2 through whatever means? Physical, mental effects.
I've only done the bag breathing which helps me if I'm anxious. I also notice pinker nail beds when I bag breathe regularly. I haven't yet tried breathing in CO2 from a tank though. If I did I'm sure I would choose to use only 1 liter of flow which should be about 3-4%. That's just a personal conservative choice.
For several months I used diamox and noticed my oxygen saturation reading went up a couple points. My nail beds stayed pinker as well when I was taking diamox. I stopped taking it because the pharmacy I was using started requiring a prescription. I've been contemplating taking it again.... It's is hard for me to describe the effects. I suppose just generally feeling better. I think at this point I may be able to judge better because I'm healthier. Sorry Peata that's probably not a very helpful answer. :oops:
 
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Blossom said:
Peata said:
[What effects do you get when you increase your CO2 through whatever means? Physical, mental effects.
I've only done the bag breathing which helps me if I'm anxious. .... It's is hard for me to describe the effects. I suppose just generally feeling better. I think at this point I may be able to judge better because I'm healthier.
Blossom, you may know more, but it seems carbonates are used to treat patients in life-threatening emergencies, at end of life, or in premature births - it's the remedy of last resort used when all other pharmaceuticals fail.

Peat has mentioned using carbon dioxide to regrow a severed fingertip with a perfect fingernail, and thinks that with some advances, "it might be a useful treatment for the degenerative diseases and for aging itself."
 

co2islife

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Hey Guys,

I've posted this in the past, but I have also created a breathing machine to regulate the co2 you breath in through a breathing mask. I created it for a guy with some health problems and he has had some amazing results from using it. Mine is a little more sophisticated and therefore a little more expensive than simpler methods but works great.

Mine factors in the pressure and vacuum of the lungs and also allows you to control the co2 level you want to breath with a remote control. For example if you want to breath 3% or 8% etc. The co2 level is displayed on the remote control which is wired to the machine. There are some other factors I'm adding to increase the effectiveness of the co2. For example certain temperature ranges increase the effectiveness as well as eliminates the feeling of suffocation or anxiety when you breath higher levels.

Steve
 

charlie

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Steve, do you sell this? If so, feel free to post your info. Maybe even make your own thread if people want to ask questions and such. :hattip


edit: after checking your prior post I see you were near the end of development. excited to see this product!
 
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