Avoiding The Naps: Good Or Bad

Velve921 · Aug 27, 2014

For years now I've had to nap every afternoon...come 1 I can barely keep my eyes open. I am the point now where my temps are starting to get pretty warm...at night low 97s, use to be 95s, during the day 98s when they use to be 97s. Am I at point where I should begin pushing through the naps and see if my sleep and temps improve at night? The excessive urination I've had for 3 years are the reasons I've woken up at night. I'm now down to waking up only twice a night to urinate. All thoughts are much appreciated.

charlie · Aug 27, 2014

Have you tried Mittir's instant coffee mix right before bed? On most nights it can take me from a one pee night to a zero pee night.

I still nap on occasion. I really feel its an important part of healing.

jyb · Aug 27, 2014

I think it's the other way round. Your sleep is light and not optimal, hence need to pee wakes you up. As opposed to deeply asleep, where even a full bladder can't wake you up. And on quality night sleep when I do happen to wake up for pee, the sleep carries momentum so once I return to bed I fall back asleep quickly.

Velve921 · Aug 28, 2014

JYB,

So should I continue to nap or no? Sorry didn't quite understand your answer.

Mittir · Aug 28, 2014

I have heard people saying that they do not have good night sleep if they take
nap in the day. But, if day time nap does not disrupt your night time sleep
then there is no reason to worry about it. I can see nap as a form of rest,
laying on bed or taking a nap. I used to restrict my fluid intake after sundown
to avoid waking up from sleep to urinate. Now i can easily drink 1-1.5 quart
of fluid after sunset and i don't need to wake up from sleep. I believe it is the
improved thyroid function that increased loss of water through skin and lungs.
I also think drinking Apple juice, which has low glycemic and insulin index,
helps me to have a steady blood through out the night. I think one needs
to increase fluid intake based on his/her metabolic rate. When i started
peating i barely could drink 2-3 cups of fluid a day now its around 3 quarts everyday.
I find it really amazing how things changes quickly. I use niacinamide regularly
that helped me a lot with quality of sleep. I take 100 mg 2-3 times a day with food.
It is better to start with 50 mg and then slowly increase it.

SQu · Aug 28, 2014

I too was a regular napper for years. Didnt really restore me, was more a case of collapsing. I slept weekends away, most afternoons too. For the past couple of years I nap only occasionally and sometimes it interferes with nighttime sleep, sometimes it helps it, and sometimes it affects the following night's sleep. Generally I avoid it because on the whole it doesn't help my nights. But the important thing is my energy has improved and mostly I dont feel the need for napping. That feeling you describe is rare now. Which is longwinded way of saying, raising daytime energy levels may naturally, gently help you feel less need to nap.
Great improvement with night urination! To what do you ascribe it?
Mittir what's your instant coffee mix Charlie mentioned?

jyb · Aug 28, 2014

Ewlevy1 said:
So should I continue to nap or no? Sorry didn't quite understand your answer.

I don't have an opinion on naps. My guess is that whether it helps or disrupts night sleep depends on health status.

Spokey · Aug 28, 2014

I think naps are good.
If you're fatigued and a nap is restorative, that has to be better than allowing the fatigued state to continue.
I'm slightly biased by a proneness to enjoy a good nap.

Occasionally (quite a lot) I fall asleep during meditation, there's a saying among meditators that it gives you what you need at the time. Sometimes, I guess that's sleep.

jyb · Aug 29, 2014

Spokey said:
I think naps are good.
If you're fatigued and a nap is restorative, that has to be better than allowing the fatigued state to continue.
I'm slightly biased by a proneness to enjoy a good nap.

I agree that intuitively, it feels strange that it's better for you to force yourself awake. However, it is also a common advice not to nap for long otherwise it will delay sleep onset. In my experience, that's sometimes true.

managing · Aug 29, 2014

Check your blood sugar after your midday meal.

Spokey · Aug 30, 2014

I believe humans have a bimodal sleep pattern naturally. Even the victorians where quite fond of sleeping this way. The whole sleeping in one big block at night is I think quite a modern invention. Where this leaves naps I'm not sure.

charlie · Aug 30, 2014

Spokey said:
I believe humans have a bimodal sleep pattern naturally.

I have heard this before, interesting.

4peatssake · Aug 30, 2014

Spokey said:
I believe humans have a bimodal sleep pattern naturally. Even the victorians where quite fond of sleeping this way. The whole sleeping in one big block at night is I think quite a modern invention. Where this leaves naps I'm not sure.

Yes, very interesting.

It is hypothesised that this segmentation is the origin of the ‘graveyard’ hours most humans experience – a sudden and strong wave of tiredness that hits around 3-4.30 AM. It is proposed that this wave of tiredness is caused by a surge of progesterone which causes sleepiness. This is a sign of healthy sleep, and supports the segmented sleep theory, as a segmented sleeper would need a physiological cue to take their second segment of sleep after being awake for a few hours.

Source

4peatssake · Aug 30, 2014

Ray Peat said:
Some people want to have a nap in the afternoon when their thyroid is good.

Dan W · Sep 5, 2014

sueq said:
Mittir what's your instant coffee mix Charlie mentioned?

Here's one post I found about it:
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=2083&p=24586#p24549

Matt Stone has an interesting theory that ties into sleep and naps in his hypoglycemia book. I'll probably butcher the explanation, but it contains the idea that glucocorticoids rapidly rise when you wake up, getting you into a negative physiological state (and possibly influencing subsequent days and nights). He thinks it's good to interrupt that process by quickly getting carbs and salt. I've wondered if that might explain the negative results some people get with naps.

Mittir · Sep 6, 2014

@Dan Wich

I have changed my coffee concoction a little bit. I add now about 4-5 grams of coffee
which is little less than 1 TBS now and drink more cups of milk-coffee to get close
to 1 oz of instant coffee daily. I was using 2 tbs of coffee then to activate my liver.
My recent liver enzymes number has gone down to normal range.

I think that Matt Stone theory on sleep is same as RP's theory on sleep.
RP recommends sugary breakfast like OJ and salty snacks to bring down cortisol
and adrenaline after a long night of fasting. RP talks about "dawn phenomenon"
where high cortisol increases blood sugar giving a diabetic like condition. Salt helps with lowering adrenaline and keep blood sugar steady. Morning cortisol can give high body temperature in the morning fasting state and high adrenaline can give high pulse rate.
A good breakfast should lower cortisol and adrenaline ( usually cortisol is high in the morning
and in some people both adrenaline and cortisol are high )and give a steady blood sugar
and normal body temperature. RP warns about eating egg in the breakfast
without enough carb/sugar, which can lower blood sugar causing stress hormones to rise.
I usually drink a cup of Apple juice just after waking up, extra fluid helps with
normalizing blood density and little later a cup of milk coffee. If adrenaline is high
that shows in high pulse i add some salt. I also drink apple juice and milk coffee before
bed to replete glycogen level. Milk protein is digested slowly to supply some proteins
through out the night.

Depending on one's ability to store glycogen one should be able to take a short nap without running out of sugar. A healthy liver should be able to supply sugar during 8 hour sleep.

Amazoniac · Dec 23, 2014

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siesta
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasympat ... ous_system

Such_Saturation · Dec 23, 2014

Starch for lunch = collapse on the couch

Starch at any point in time= collapse on the couch

YourUniverse · Jan 31, 2019

I need naps by around 4pm every day now.

It doesn't jive well with my current situation, I need to stay alert until at least 6.

I do get up at 5:30am, so by 4pm I've had quite a day. Still, I don't remember needing to nap like this really ever before.

Besides that, I feel amazing. My temperature and pulse are virtually perfect every day - some days I'm even too warm.

I feel like my desire for naps is juxtaposed with my overall health, and I'm kind of confused. I would think good metabolism would mean high, steady energy all day.

(I don't eat starches right now - I doubt its blood sugar crashes. I simply feel spent by ~4pm. Weird.)

baccheion · Jan 31, 2019

Take a multivitamin like AOR Ortho-Core in the AM. How high is your testosterone in the morning?

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Avoiding The Naps: Good Or Bad

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