You Know You've Gone Peat Mad When

aquaman

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.... you're sitting under a 300w incandescant bulb on your sofa in just your boxer shorts, inhaling 8% CO2 air, while sipping potato protein and chicken neck soup, and have cascara tea currently stewing up.

If my friends could see me now...!
 

schultz

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Haha! I have to laugh at this as I am sitting under a 300w light reading about someone else sitting under a 300w light... I'm sipping a latte though.
 
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Wouldn't eight percent be stressful if not properly trained?
 

north

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It's like having 2 identities.
I tell people who come over my huge lamp at my desk is caus I want it to be bright will studying.

How do you make the co2?
Have a tank?
I wanna get one but kinda pricey here :(
 
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aquaman

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prototype said:
How do you make the co2?
Have a tank?
I wanna get one but kinda pricey here :(

Followed VisionofStrength's instructions - a paintball Co2 tank, a basic fishtank CO2 regulator, and a cheap nebulizer mask with tubing to connect to the regulator. Very simple.

It' probably not 8% as I'm taking it easy for the first week or so. Not having to breathe deeply at all.

After 2 days of use the only thing I can feel is my calves feeling less tight ( I think, will test by jogging as normally i get cramp really easily).
 
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aquaman

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bradley said:
How are you measuring the amount of CO2 you are inhaling?

I'm basing it on VoS's advice that 8% you are deep breathing needing to take in way more air. I havent' got to that poitnt yet, taking it easy.
 
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aquaman said:
bradley said:
How are you measuring the amount of CO2 you are inhaling?

I'm basing it on VoS's advice that 8% you are deep breathing needing to take in way more air. I havent' got to that poitnt yet, taking it easy.

Have your cramps subsided? I hear carbon dioxide supplementation can deplete minerals.
 

Blossom

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A percent-O2-lock venturi system Oxygen mask might be a more precise way to regulate the delivered CO2. If the regulator has a flow indicator and the flow is set at 3 liters then connected to the venturi type mask at 24% that should translate to about 4% CO2. The numbers on the venturi are reflecting percentages based on using an oxygen source but would work with CO2 GAS as well. The venturi mask set at 28% would be about 8% CO2. I haven't personally tried it but it would allow for more precise CO2 delivery and possibly less chance of accidentally over doing it. I just thought I'd mention that for anyone wanting to be more exact in the amount delivered.
 

tara

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Such_Saturation said:
I hear carbon dioxide supplementation can deplete minerals.
:?: Which minerals/how/do you have a source?

If the CO2 is increased in the physiological range, I would have expected it to improve metabolism, and therefore improve the body's ability to hold onto many minerals. If you are suggesting that 8% is unphysiologically high, it wouldn't surprise me.

Wikipedia: "Concentrations of 7% to 10% may cause suffocation, even in the presence of sufficient oxygen, manifesting as dizziness, headache, visual and hearing dysfunction, and unconsciousness within a few minutes to an hour.[85] The physiological effects of acute carbon dioxide exposure are grouped together under the term hypercapnia, a subset of asphyxiation."

If you have a mask strapped to your head, you don't want to pass out from too high a dose and not be awake enough to stop it. Bag breathing does not pose this risk, since you just drop the bag if you get too drowsy.
 
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tara said:
Wikipedia: "Concentrations of 7% to 10% may cause suffocation, even in the presence of sufficient oxygen, manifesting as dizziness, headache, visual and hearing dysfunction, and unconsciousness within a few minutes to an hour.[85] The physiological effects of acute carbon dioxide exposure are grouped together under the term hypercapnia, a subset of asphyxiation."
Here, Wiki cites only to a non-authoritative advisory that I can see, which in turn cites to this, "Dripps RD, Comroe JH. The respiratory and circulatory response of normal man to inhalation of 7.6 and 10.4 percent CO, with a comparison of the maximal ventilation produced by severe muscular exercise, inhalation of CO, and maximum voluntary hyperventilation. Am J Physiol. 1947;149:43–51"

I don't have access to this (1947?) study but I see that its results elsewhere seem to be summarized as "Aside from increased ventilation, the most common clinical symptom caused by CO2 breathing is a headache".

Here's a synopsis of recent findings about CO2 supplementation, now often called therapeutic or permissive hypercapnia:
Increasing clinical evidence supports the use of permissive
hypercapnia, particularly in acute lung injury/acute
respiratory distress syndrome, status asthmaticus, and
neonatal respiratory failure. However, there are no clinical
data examining the contribution of hypercapnia per se to
protective ventilatory strategies. Recent experimental
studies provide further support for the concept of
therapeutic hypercapnia, whereby deliberately elevated
PaCO2 may attenuate lung and systemic organ injury. CO2
administration attenuates experimental acute lung injury
because of adverse ventilatory strategies, mesenteric
ischemia reperfusion, and pulmonary endotoxin instillation.
Hypercapnic acidosis attenuates key effectors of the
inflammatory response and reduces lung neutrophil
infiltration. At the genomic level, hypercapnic acidosis
attenuates the activation of nuclear factor-kB, a key
regulator of the expression of multiple genes involved in the
inflammatory response. The physiologic effects of
hypercapnia, both beneficial and potentially deleterious, are
increasingly well understood. In addition, reports suggest
that humans can tolerate extreme levels of hypercapnia for
relatively prolonged periods without adverse effects.


Source:
Code:
www.ubccriticalcaremedicine.ca/academic/jc_article/COCC%202005%20Permissive%20Hypercapnea%20(May-20-2010).pdf
[bold added.]
 
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I think it can drag ions out of the cell and into urine especially as carbonic acid.
 
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aquaman

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tara said:
If you have a mask strapped to your head, you don't want to pass out from too high a dose and not be awake enough to stop it. Bag breathing does not pose this risk, since you just drop the bag if you get too drowsy.

Yeah, i thought about this - i was just holding the mask to my face. But also I had no feeling of light headedness at all, definitely no headache etc.
 

tara

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aquaman said:
tara said:
If you have a mask strapped to your head, you don't want to pass out from too high a dose and not be awake enough to stop it. Bag breathing does not pose this risk, since you just drop the bag if you get too drowsy.

Yeah, i thought about this - i was just holding the mask to my face. But also I had no feeling of light headedness at all, definitely no headache etc.
This seems like a safe enough way to experiment.
 

tara

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visionofstrength said:
tara said:
Wikipedia: "Concentrations of 7% to 10% may cause suffocation, even in the presence of sufficient oxygen, manifesting as dizziness, headache, visual and hearing dysfunction, and unconsciousness within a few minutes to an hour.[85] The physiological effects of acute carbon dioxide exposure are grouped together under the term hypercapnia, a subset of asphyxiation."
Here, Wiki cites only to a non-authoritative advisory that I can see, which in turn cites to this, "Dripps RD, Comroe JH. The respiratory and circulatory response of normal man to inhalation of 7.6 and 10.4 percent CO, with a comparison of the maximal ventilation produced by severe muscular exercise, inhalation of CO, and maximum voluntary hyperventilation. Am J Physiol. 1947;149:43–51"

I don't have access to this (1947?) study but I see that its results elsewhere seem to be summarized as "Aside from increased ventilation, the most common clinical symptom caused by CO2 breathing is a headache".

Here's a synopsis of recent findings about CO2 supplementation, now often called therapeutic or permissive hypercapnia:
Increasing clinical evidence supports the use of permissive
hypercapnia, particularly in acute lung injury/acute
respiratory distress syndrome, status asthmaticus, and
neonatal respiratory failure. However, there are no clinical
data examining the contribution of hypercapnia per se to
protective ventilatory strategies. Recent experimental
studies provide further support for the concept of
therapeutic hypercapnia, whereby deliberately elevated
PaCO2 may attenuate lung and systemic organ injury. CO2
administration attenuates experimental acute lung injury
because of adverse ventilatory strategies, mesenteric
ischemia reperfusion, and pulmonary endotoxin instillation.
Hypercapnic acidosis attenuates key effectors of the
inflammatory response and reduces lung neutrophil
infiltration. At the genomic level, hypercapnic acidosis
attenuates the activation of nuclear factor-kB, a key
regulator of the expression of multiple genes involved in the
inflammatory response. The physiologic effects of
hypercapnia, both beneficial and potentially deleterious, are
increasingly well understood. In addition, reports suggest
that humans can tolerate extreme levels of hypercapnia for
relatively prolonged periods without adverse effects.


Source: http://www.ubccriticalcaremedicine.ca/a ... ay-20-2010).pdf [bold added.]

Fair enough to not count wikipedia as an authority. The part of the synopsis you quoted doesn't mention levels or proportion of breathed air, and the link didn't work for me - maybe it spells this out more there. Does it say what it counts as extreme levels of hypercapnia, or how much CO2 needs to be in breathed air to approach it? It may not be harmful, and perhaps you have experimented enough to know that it works OK for you. But I would consider it potentially hazardous to risk continued high levels into and beyond unconsciousness unless there is someone around to make sure you are safe, especially when beginning to try it and not yet knowing personal limits.
I am pretty sure I have read about 3 or 4 or maybe 5% carbogen being used to good effect in hospital settings. But 8% is quite bit higher again, and with a lot less oxygen. 20 000 times higher than normal atmospheric CO2.
 

Blossom

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Maybe someone could email Dr. Peat and ask him what he thinks about breathing in CO2 directly from a tank in this manner? I know we have to think for ourselves but I'm afraid this might be a bit risky. The way I understand his work is that ideally we should in the long-term enhance CO2 through good thyroid function but in the short-term bag breathing can help. I know we all have to apply his work to our unique situation the way we see fit but I'd hate to see anyone accidentally go overboard. I love CO2 as much as the next person but I also respect the fact that it has the potential to stop breathing completely in excessive amounts applied too quickly. I mentioned the venturi mask because I think if one chooses to breathe in pure CO2 it can't hurt to be as precise as possible. I'm just curious as to what Peat himself might say on this topic.
 
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Blossom said:
Maybe someone could email Dr. Peat and ask him what he thinks about breathing in CO2 directly from a tank in this manner? I know we have to think for ourselves but I'm afraid this might be a bit risky. The way I understand his work is that ideally we should in the long-term enhance CO2 through good thyroid function but in the short-term bag breathing can help. I know we all have to apply his work to our unique situation the way we see fit but I'd hate to see anyone accidentally go overboard. I love CO2 as much as the next person but I also respect the fact that it has the potential to stop breathing completely in excessive amounts applied too quickly. I mentioned the venturi mask because I think if one chooses to breathe in pure CO2 it can't hurt to be as precise as possible. I'm just curious as to what Peat himself might say on this topic.
I didn't know there was a question. :oops: What's the question you would ask? Maybe I could try to answer it from whatever research there is available?
 
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One sure thing is that the carbon dioxide lets more minerals into the bone, you could probably gain tens of pounds over time with breathing apparatus and some kind of moderate shocks to the bone.
 

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