Low-Fat Diet, Hypocaloric Diet, Weight Loss, Metabolism

Zachs · Mar 26, 2015

How many calories are you consuming and what's your age, height and weight?

RPDiciple · Mar 26, 2015

Zachs said:
RPDiciple said:

Zachs said:

Such_Saturation said:

RPDiciple said:

Such_Saturation: and he uses drugs as well, testosterone

Click to expand...

What is your source on that? But thanks, I found out he takes T3 LOL

Click to expand...

He's admitted to Trt replacement as well as that nercoleptic drug and thyroid meds.

RPD, Billy Craig is not the only one on earth to do that, it's pretty basic and I don't understand why you can't grasp whats happening. If fed the right sources of calories at a surplus for long enough, the body has two choices, increase fat storage or increase energy expenditure. If you have non compromised metabolism and relatively low fat stores to begin with, your body will choose to burn the energy over conserving it. I posted a link early to a Paper that basically says in humans who are healthy, dnl simply does not happen when overfeeding on carbs. In Billys case, he gave himself hyperthyroidism from such an increase of calories which lead to losing too much fat which is not unheard of either.

Personally I feel like I achieved this at a lower level of calories. I have tried losing fat on a decificit many times and it always leads to fat stall andI gain after initial along with hypo symptoms. the fat I lost doing this was effertless, almost overnight I would lose dramatic amounts and it's been over 8 months and I continue to lean out further even eating fat again and other garbage foods not Peat recommended. I feel like I permanently fixed my metabolism by eliminating fat and pufa stores the correct way, without aN energy deficit, being anibolic does wonders for the metabolism and hormonal systems.

Click to expand...

Well if Billy is not the only one, why have i never seen anyone done it in a scientific study? im not saying it cant happen and i really hope and want it to happen. Its just i have not seen any scientific proof of it where they actually did what he was doing. Not that we are not capable of doing it with certain mechanism like uncoupling etc but actually do it and prove it for science so it gets published and that people can do the same and get the same results.

Its lovely to hear. How did you do to achieve the fat loss? how much did you loose? how many calories did you eat a day? what did you think made it happen, supps etc i know you did the no fat /low fat but how much is that?

Click to expand...

I'm sure there is much research done already but if you wait for a study to prove you something before you can believe it, you'll be waiting a long time. 99% of studies are flawed in some way anyway, I'll talk collective experiences over uncredible studies any day.

I ate zero fat for over 3 months, so only whatever I got from food I ate, non fat dairy, fruit, starch. it cronometreed out to maybe 10g a day or less. I ate at least 3k calories, mostly from carbs. Some days much more, 4k+. I was consistent, didn't drink much, never had a cheat meal except eating occasional eggs and oysters. Supplemented with some fat soluble vits, a b complex, zinc, mag, selenium, boron, glycine, aspirin, tourine, a tiny bit of t3.

I went from close to 200lbs, 23% bf to 166, under 10%. Currently at last doctor visit I was 163 with clothes on.

As a side note, I went from 173 to a high of 221 when eating only 2000 calories a day or less of meat, eggs, cheese, nuts, veggies and oils. This was several years ago but illustrates nicely how CICO is bullcrap.

I'm not opposed to believing I was in an energy deficit but the way the fat would drop of seemingly overnight and the pronounced boost in metabolism and overall health tells me that there was much more going on than just fat loss through an energy deficit.

Amazing. How much protein where avr on days from the dairy ? and how much starch on average?

Where you very active? this was achieved in 3 months?

Did you use any coconut oil?

Zachs · Mar 26, 2015

Protein was low, realistically only 90g or so most days between dairy and gelatin/glycine. Plus whatever I got from other foods. No I was not active at all, I actually was working through a bad injury in my chest, I had crushed a joint in my sternum from too much handstand practice. The only stuff I did was muscle control which I talk about in another thread. I actually gained muscle while doing this as well, my bicep measurements went up and lats were substantially bigger. 3 months yes was the bulk of this experiment, I started last June and continued to the fall. Since than iv been off and on with low fat.

Starch I ate a lot of, probably 1/2 my calories from it? I found that I had no issues with digestion when I didn't mix fat and starch together. Alone, starch digests just fine for me. No coconut oil that I recall.

RPDiciple · Mar 26, 2015

Zachs said:
Protein was low, realistically only 90g or so most days between dairy and gelatin/glycine. Plus whatever I got from other foods. No I was not active at all, I actually was working through a bad injury in my chest, I had crushed a joint in my sternum from too much handstand practice. The only stuff I did was muscle control which I talk about in another thread. I actually gained muscle while doing this as well, my bicep measurements went up and lats were substantially bigger. 3 months yes was the bulk of this experiment, I started last June and continued to the fall. Since than iv been off and on with low fat.

Starch I ate a lot of, probably 1/2 my calories from it? I found that I had no issues with digestion when I didn't mix fat and starch together. Alone, starch digests just fine for me. No coconut oil that I recall.

Awesome

How was your temp, pulse etc? did it change and in terms of fat loss. Any other good benefits you noticed? What of the supps did you feel made a difference in terms of metabolic rate? and how much did you use from them?

What starches did you use? i also dont have any problem with starches but if i eat starches like fine wheat bread etc i can eat alot of it and it contains 0.9g fat /100g in wheat so that adds up and 50% of that i think is PUFA

Sea · Mar 27, 2015

RPDiciple said:
Sea: serioussly are you kidding me? please read my comments before you start writing this. It gets me so upset that i want to curse but then i get banned.

Quote from RP: "When a person wants to lose excess fat, limiting the diet to low fat milk, eggs, orange juice, and a daily carrot or two, will provide the essential nutrients without excess calories. "

RP RECOMMENDED 2-3 quarts of skimmed milk and 1 quart of OJ WHEN YOU WANT TO LOOSE FAT. THAT IS THE BASELINE YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH FOR MAXIMUM FAT LOSS. THAT DOES MEAN YOU EAT LIKE THIS FOR LIFE, PLEASE DONT SEE WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE AND READ IT IN THE RIGHT CONTEXT.

"When you caloric restrict, even just a little bit, that energy has to come from somewhere, and it doesn't all come from fat. You will just lower your body temperature and deplete a small amount of muscle mass, organs, or other tissues which ensures that when you resume a normal caloric intake you will regain more fat than before because of the lowered metabolism. Ray Peat knows better than to recommend yoyo dieting.

The only way to sustainably lose body fat is by increasing the metabolic rate which Ray Peat has explained in so many quotes in this thread. He never says to caloric restrict, he says to eat to increase your body temperature and pulse rate. You simply cannot do this unless you are eating more calories than you were before or using supplements that increase metabolism(which usually increase caloric requirements). You can never get to an optimal metabolism through caloric restriction.

When your body temperature/metabolism is still low you will always retain more water weight and more fat than you would if your metabolism was functioning optimally. This is why its incredibly foolish to approach fat loss by dieting first and worrying about the metabolism later."

Click to expand...

SERIOUSLY i dont think you understand what calorie restriction is im just sitting here baffled that you can write something like this. Do you have any idea what eating for increased metbabolic rate means? you purpose of having a great metabolic rate besides all the hormone stuff and all that is that you can eat way more calories and maintain your weight. So what does that mean? you can start off with way more food and still be in a calorie deficit. AKA ITS SO MUCH EASIER TO LOOSE FAT BECAUSE YOU CAN EAT SO MUCH MORE TO START WITH BECAUSE YOUR METABOLIC RATE IS GREAT.

Again, all you have done is taken quotes out of context and highlight your lack of understanding of Ray Peat's research.

The quote you posted does not mean to calorie restrict. All it means is to limit the diet to metabolically stimulating foods. How you can read this and come to the conclusion that Ray Peat recommends caloric restriction is truly mind boggling.

Having a high metabolic rate will require more nutrients than having a lower metabolic rate. But, this does not mean that having a low metabolic rate will lower your requirement for sugar. The opposite is usually true which Ray Peat has spoken excessively about. When your metabolism isn't functioning properly the body is under a lot of stress and does not efficiently use sugar. This means that to reverse a degenerative condition, like excess body fat, usually much more sugar will be required than will be required by that same person when their metabolism is functioning optimally.

How do you expect to diet, reach a weight, and then eat a higher quantity of food, and not regain all the weight and more is confusing. Do you think your body temperature and pulse rate will increase if you restrict calories? How will your achieve a net gain in muscle mass if you put yourself in the catabolic state of caloric restriction? Caloric restriction only causes decreases in metabolism which is why a sure fire way to gain the most body fat in the long run is to engage in the practice of dieting. This phenomenon is well known: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yo-yo_effect

If anything, we can make a better argument that Ray Peat is for overeating:

"Before using a Cytomel (T3) supplement, it might be possible to solve the problem with diet alone. A piece of fruit or glass of juice or milk between meals, and adequate animal protein (or potato protein) in the diet is sometimes enough to allow the liver to produce the hormone." (http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/0 ... e-and-tsh/)

If Ray Peat was a proponent of calorie restriction, surely he would not advocate for hypothyroid people to consume extra sugar between meals.

Another quote:

"RP: Yeah very healthy 12 – 15 year old people burn fuel very wastefully but that’s when the people are least likely to die when they are wasting fuel like crazy.

Int: When you say least likely to die?

RP: Yeah so around 12 – 15 year olds healthiest and are least likely to die.
Yeah it looks like a waste to eat thousands of calories a day when you aren’t doing anything but it is a good for you.
Yeah the wasteful energy metabolism. " (viewtopic.php?f=73&p=74420#p74420)

This is further evidence that Ray Peat seems to be a proponent of over eating sugar.

I have read your posts, you don't seem to read mine. If you had only listened to the interview I posted several pages ago in which Ray Peat is interviewed on the subject of weight loss, we would not have had to waste so much time and energy debating something that is so blatantly obvious. I suggest you listen to the following interview, before you confuse more people about Ray Peat's position on caloric restriction as he is very clearly opposed.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/221 ... k21513.mp3

Sea · Mar 27, 2015

Peata said:
I'm getting a little discouraged because I've lowered calories by 500 for over a week, and eat less than 10 g. fat most days, no or very little starch/grains for more than a month, lots of protein, and walk for exercise, plus use rebounder (no weight bearing yet), but have not lost any weight.

A little weight loss after more than a week would give me some encouragement, but no... I weigh the same as when I eat those extra 500 calories or more. So, it feels like deprivation for no result.

I don't mind the low starch and low fat part of it though, but it's so discouraging to lower calories and not lose a bit.

And from reading here, there is still division in Peatworld about how to lose weight. Carry on the discussion. I am also open to suggestions.

I think you should try increasing calories as much as possible. The more sugar you are able to eat without upsetting your digestive tract, the faster you will be able to reverse your condition. I think that you should ignore weight and only focus on body fat and water weight retention which is best judged by a mirror.

Zachs · Mar 27, 2015

RPDiciple said:
Zachs said:

Protein was low, realistically only 90g or so most days between dairy and gelatin/glycine. Plus whatever I got from other foods. No I was not active at all, I actually was working through a bad injury in my chest, I had crushed a joint in my sternum from too much handstand practice. The only stuff I did was muscle control which I talk about in another thread. I actually gained muscle while doing this as well, my bicep measurements went up and lats were substantially bigger. 3 months yes was the bulk of this experiment, I started last June and continued to the fall. Since than iv been off and on with low fat.

Starch I ate a lot of, probably 1/2 my calories from it? I found that I had no issues with digestion when I didn't mix fat and starch together. Alone, starch digests just fine for me. No coconut oil that I recall.

Click to expand...

Awesome

How was your temp, pulse etc? did it change and in terms of fat loss. Any other good benefits you noticed? What of the supps did you feel made a difference in terms of metabolic rate? and how much did you use from them?

What starches did you use? i also dont have any problem with starches but if i eat starches like fine wheat bread etc i can eat alot of it and it contains 0.9g fat /100g in wheat so that adds up and 50% of that i think is PUFA

Never took my temp, it's always been above 98 after fixed my metabolism. I go by warmth of extremities which were excellent. Libido was biggest benefit, without all that fat to slow and inflame cardiovascular flow, erections are on another level. Also I had a lighter and purer energy about me, that one's hard to explain. Purer as in more cincentrated, not like spiritual.

Besides zinc and gelatin. I can't tell if any supps do anything. Most likely they don't and I probably won't use any supplements in the future.

Starches by volume: sweet potato, white and purple. white rice both grain and noodle. Squash and pumpkin. Wheat, mainly from noodles.

cantstoppeating · Mar 27, 2015

So much rambling with both sides getting nowhere.

Sea said:
RPDiciple said:

Sea: serioussly are you kidding me? please read my comments before you start writing this. It gets me so upset that i want to curse but then i get banned.

Quote from RP: "When a person wants to lose excess fat, limiting the diet to low fat milk, eggs, orange juice, and a daily carrot or two, will provide the essential nutrients without excess calories. "

RP RECOMMENDED 2-3 quarts of skimmed milk and 1 quart of OJ WHEN YOU WANT TO LOOSE FAT. THAT IS THE BASELINE YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH FOR MAXIMUM FAT LOSS. THAT DOES MEAN YOU EAT LIKE THIS FOR LIFE, PLEASE DONT SEE WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE AND READ IT IN THE RIGHT CONTEXT.

"When you caloric restrict, even just a little bit, that energy has to come from somewhere, and it doesn't all come from fat. You will just lower your body temperature and deplete a small amount of muscle mass, organs, or other tissues which ensures that when you resume a normal caloric intake you will regain more fat than before because of the lowered metabolism. Ray Peat knows better than to recommend yoyo dieting.

The only way to sustainably lose body fat is by increasing the metabolic rate which Ray Peat has explained in so many quotes in this thread. He never says to caloric restrict, he says to eat to increase your body temperature and pulse rate. You simply cannot do this unless you are eating more calories than you were before or using supplements that increase metabolism(which usually increase caloric requirements). You can never get to an optimal metabolism through caloric restriction.

When your body temperature/metabolism is still low you will always retain more water weight and more fat than you would if your metabolism was functioning optimally. This is why its incredibly foolish to approach fat loss by dieting first and worrying about the metabolism later."

Click to expand...

SERIOUSLY i dont think you understand what calorie restriction is im just sitting here baffled that you can write something like this. Do you have any idea what eating for increased metbabolic rate means? you purpose of having a great metabolic rate besides all the hormone stuff and all that is that you can eat way more calories and maintain your weight. So what does that mean? you can start off with way more food and still be in a calorie deficit. AKA ITS SO MUCH EASIER TO LOOSE FAT BECAUSE YOU CAN EAT SO MUCH MORE TO START WITH BECAUSE YOUR METABOLIC RATE IS GREAT.

Click to expand...

Again, all you have done is taken quotes out of context and highlight your lack of understanding of Ray Peat's research.

The quote you posted does not mean to calorie restrict. All it means is to limit the diet to metabolically stimulating foods. How you can read this and come to the conclusion that Ray Peat recommends caloric restriction is truly mind boggling.

Having a high metabolic rate will require more nutrients than having a lower metabolic rate. But, this does not mean that having a low metabolic rate will lower your requirement for sugar. The opposite is usually true which Ray Peat has spoken excessively about. When your metabolism isn't functioning properly the body is under a lot of stress and does not efficiently use sugar. This means that to reverse a degenerative condition, like excess body fat, usually much more sugar will be required than will be required by that same person when their metabolism is functioning optimally.

How do you expect to diet, reach a weight, and then eat a higher quantity of food, and not regain all the weight and more is confusing. Do you think your body temperature and pulse rate will increase if you restrict calories? How will your achieve a net gain in muscle mass if you put yourself in the catabolic state of caloric restriction? Caloric restriction only causes decreases in metabolism which is why a sure fire way to gain the most body fat in the long run is to engage in the practice of dieting. This phenomenon is well known: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yo-yo_effect

If anything, we can make a better argument that Ray Peat is for overeating:

"Before using a Cytomel (T3) supplement, it might be possible to solve the problem with diet alone. A piece of fruit or glass of juice or milk between meals, and adequate animal protein (or potato protein) in the diet is sometimes enough to allow the liver to produce the hormone." (http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/0 ... e-and-tsh/)

If Ray Peat was a proponent of calorie restriction, surely he would not advocate for hypothyroid people to consume extra sugar between meals.

Another quote:

"RP: Yeah very healthy 12 – 15 year old people burn fuel very wastefully but that’s when the people are least likely to die when they are wasting fuel like crazy.

Int: When you say least likely to die?

RP: Yeah so around 12 – 15 year olds healthiest and are least likely to die.
Yeah it looks like a waste to eat thousands of calories a day when you aren’t doing anything but it is a good for you.
Yeah the wasteful energy metabolism. " (viewtopic.php?f=73&p=74420#p74420)

This is further evidence that Ray Peat seems to be a proponent of over eating sugar.

I have read your posts, you don't seem to read mine. If you had only listened to the interview I posted several pages ago in which Ray Peat is interviewed on the subject of weight loss, we would not have had to waste so much time and energy debating something that is so blatantly obvious. I suggest you listen to the following interview, before you confuse more people about Ray Peat's position on caloric restriction as he is very clearly opposed.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/221 ... k21513.mp3

You're both missing the point and both quoting Peat out of context. Peat isn't about calorie restriction but he is about avoiding excess calories. We haven't yet figured out the mechanisms by which fat (i.e. PUFA) stored from years of lowcarb/keto can be burnt while maintaining a high glucose metabolism (which largely involves inhibiting lipolysis).

Luckily we do have a few clues to navigate ourselves out of our fat PUFA laden body and into a lean glucose burning machine. Haidut has already posted studies showing PUFA depletion can happen rapidly, along with his personal experience of dropping niacinamide and aspirin (lipolysis inhibitors depending on dose) and losing 30lbs over 3 months. We also have Zach's experience of doing a fat free stint and dropping his excess fat. We've also got the experience of thebigpeatowski who did a fat free stint during a summer and lost a substantial amount of excess fat.

There's a pattern, and from what I can tell, it's this:

Eat enough sugar and protein, while avoiding fat, to reach a high metabolism and no more. In practise it means 1.5-2g protein per kg of body weight and at least double the amount of sucrose or more until temp peaks at 98.6f with pulse over 80bpm with warm extremities during mid-morning to afternoon. That's it. That's the prescription.

RPDiciple · Mar 27, 2015

Zachs said:
RPDiciple said:

Zachs said:

Protein was low, realistically only 90g or so most days between dairy and gelatin/glycine. Plus whatever I got from other foods. No I was not active at all, I actually was working through a bad injury in my chest, I had crushed a joint in my sternum from too much handstand practice. The only stuff I did was muscle control which I talk about in another thread. I actually gained muscle while doing this as well, my bicep measurements went up and lats were substantially bigger. 3 months yes was the bulk of this experiment, I started last June and continued to the fall. Since than iv been off and on with low fat.

Starch I ate a lot of, probably 1/2 my calories from it? I found that I had no issues with digestion when I didn't mix fat and starch together. Alone, starch digests just fine for me. No coconut oil that I recall.

Click to expand...

Awesome

How was your temp, pulse etc? did it change and in terms of fat loss. Any other good benefits you noticed? What of the supps did you feel made a difference in terms of metabolic rate? and how much did you use from them?

What starches did you use? i also dont have any problem with starches but if i eat starches like fine wheat bread etc i can eat alot of it and it contains 0.9g fat /100g in wheat so that adds up and 50% of that i think is PUFA

Click to expand...

Never took my temp, it's always been above 98 after fixed my metabolism. I go by warmth of extremities which were excellent. Libido was biggest benefit, without all that fat to slow and inflame cardiovascular flow, erections are on another level. Also I had a lighter and purer energy about me, that one's hard to explain. Purer as in more cincentrated, not like spiritual.

Besides zinc and gelatin. I can't tell if any supps do anything. Most likely they don't and I probably won't use any supplements in the future.

Starches by volume: sweet potato, white and purple. white rice both grain and noodle. Squash and pumpkin. Wheat, mainly from noodles.

Amazing.

Did you pay attention to meal frequency etc?

How much zinc where u taking a day?

RPDiciple · Mar 29, 2015

Zahc: did you use any coconut oil during the no fat experiement? what is your opinion of using it while doing low fat?

Im doing no fat atm. But i know RP talks about adding a little CO would actually make it even better.

Gonna do the no fat experiement for some months now and see. Im gonna cycle calories as well but i can at least add my experiement to the list of no fat experience and in terms of calories and all that when it comes to fat loss. Have been doing it for 1 week now

uuy8778yyi · Mar 29, 2015

since when did peat reccomend no fat ?

coconut oil/butter - will that slow down the release of pufa ?

Waremu · Mar 29, 2015

Zachs said:
RPDiciple said:

Zachs said:

Such_Saturation said:

RPDiciple said:

Such_Saturation: and he uses drugs as well, testosterone

Click to expand...

What is your source on that? But thanks, I found out he takes T3 LOL

Click to expand...

He's admitted to Trt replacement as well as that nercoleptic drug and thyroid meds.

RPD, Billy Craig is not the only one on earth to do that, it's pretty basic and I don't understand why you can't grasp whats happening. If fed the right sources of calories at a surplus for long enough, the body has two choices, increase fat storage or increase energy expenditure. If you have non compromised metabolism and relatively low fat stores to begin with, your body will choose to burn the energy over conserving it. I posted a link early to a Paper that basically says in humans who are healthy, dnl simply does not happen when overfeeding on carbs. In Billys case, he gave himself hyperthyroidism from such an increase of calories which lead to losing too much fat which is not unheard of either.

Personally I feel like I achieved this at a lower level of calories. I have tried losing fat on a decificit many times and it always leads to fat stall andI gain after initial along with hypo symptoms. the fat I lost doing this was effertless, almost overnight I would lose dramatic amounts and it's been over 8 months and I continue to lean out further even eating fat again and other garbage foods not Peat recommended. I feel like I permanently fixed my metabolism by eliminating fat and pufa stores the correct way, without aN energy deficit, being anibolic does wonders for the metabolism and hormonal systems.

Click to expand...

Well if Billy is not the only one, why have i never seen anyone done it in a scientific study? im not saying it cant happen and i really hope and want it to happen. Its just i have not seen any scientific proof of it where they actually did what he was doing. Not that we are not capable of doing it with certain mechanism like uncoupling etc but actually do it and prove it for science so it gets published and that people can do the same and get the same results.

Its lovely to hear. How did you do to achieve the fat loss? how much did you loose? how many calories did you eat a day? what did you think made it happen, supps etc i know you did the no fat /low fat but how much is that?

Click to expand...

I'm sure there is much research done already but if you wait for a study to prove you something before you can believe it, you'll be waiting a long time. 99% of studies are flawed in some way anyway, I'll talk collective experiences over uncredible studies any day.

I ate zero fat for over 3 months, so only whatever I got from food I ate, non fat dairy, fruit, starch. it cronometreed out to maybe 10g a day or less. I ate at least 3k calories, mostly from carbs. Some days much more, 4k+. I was consistent, didn't drink much, never had a cheat meal except eating occasional eggs and oysters. Supplemented with some fat soluble vits, a b complex, zinc, mag, selenium, boron, glycine, aspirin, tourine, a tiny bit of t3.

I went from close to 200lbs, 23% bf to 166, under 10%. Currently at last doctor visit I was 163 with clothes on.

As a side note, I went from 173 to a high of 221 when eating only 2000 calories a day or less of meat, eggs, cheese, nuts, veggies and oils. This was several years ago but illustrates nicely how CICO is bullcrap.

I'm not opposed to believing I was in an energy deficit but the way the fat would drop of seemingly overnight and the pronounced boost in metabolism and overall health tells me that there was much more going on than just fat loss through an energy deficit.

This is very similar to what I had experienced when I would go very very low fat/fat free. In fact, even while going fat free, I also noticed that when I would restrict the three main inflammatory amino acids that Ray talks about in his articles (cystein, methionine, tryptophan) as best as I can, I noticed a more pronounced fat loss. In fact, I replaced half my milk intake with gelatin and kept the other half at dairy (I also added some egg shell calcium just to make sure my calcium intake stays up) and some shell fish a few times per week and also took BCAA's, with my three main meals per day, which also help reduce methionine by about 50% (and tryptophan to serotonin conversion). I ate mostly a high fruit diet with some starches at dinner (sushi rice, potatoes, well cooked polenta, rice cakes, etc.) and always felt satiated and the weight came off very easily.

I think this may be why so many long-term 80/10/10 people are so lean: very low fat and very low in the thee inflammatory amino acids Ray talks about.

I have been weight lifting a very long time now and it seems plausible that one of the mechanisms by which fat is lost is through the muscles burning off the fat. Ray Peat has mentioned a number of times that the muscles prefer to burn fat as an energy source at rest. So I am thinking that if one maintains muscle as best as they can and perhaps do some resistance exercises to maximize LBM, then maybe the greater their fat loss will be even while doing HCLF, as that would perhaps mean that more muscle will burn more fat at rest for energy.

Peata · Mar 30, 2015

Sea said:
I think you should try increasing calories as much as possible. The more sugar you are able to eat without upsetting your digestive tract, the faster you will be able to reverse your condition. I think that you should ignore weight and only focus on body fat and water weight retention which is best judged by a mirror.

Are you saying to increase calories with sugar while keeping fat low?

Waremu · Mar 30, 2015

uuy8778yyi said:
since when did peat reccomend no fat ?

coconut oil/butter - will that slow down the release of pufa ?

Ray doesn't "recommend" either. He simply says that he thinks having some fat in the diet is probably best long-term, but that one could do a very very low fat diet and still be healthy as fat is not an essential macronurrient. And most of us here who are advocating a low/no fat diet are doing so for weight loss, not longterm. I am sure once everyone's health improves and they lose the weight they wanna lose they will add some saturated fat back in. I probably will, but will probably stay low fat mostly as I believe that is superior. Ray also says it is best to limit fat for weight loss.

Zachs · Mar 30, 2015

I have been drinking a half gallon of whole milk daily now for a week, also a few tsp of cc and random Ice cream and cheese. 0 fat gain, I feel leaner actually but hard to tell at my bf. This experiment was a huge success for me.

RPDiciple · Mar 30, 2015

Zachs said:
I have been drinking a half gallon of whole milk daily now for a week, also a few tsp of cc and random Ice cream and cheese. 0 fat gain, I feel leaner actually but hard to tell at my bf. This experiment was a huge success for me.

Zachs: you track calories now as well after you have implemented higher fat foods? feel metabolism is much better after the no fat experiment?

Nstocks · Mar 31, 2015

I'm going to try this from next week to see if it helps with my bloating, sebaceous fat, problematic skin and hypothyroid issues.

Is skimmed milk recommended for this experiment to keep fat as low as possible? I've personally never had skimmed milk, only semi skimmed (2% fat). However, with 1L 2% fat, that's around 18g fat already. With yogurts, is it easy to make them at home using skimmed milk? I find most store-bought fat free yogurts have strange starches/fillers to thicken the yogurt. How did you incorporate solid foods (of any?) - that's one part of a mostly liquid diet that I struggle with - that and always having sweet foods at each meal.

Such_Saturation · Mar 31, 2015

Nstocks said:
I'm going to try this from next week to see if it helps with my bloating, sebaceous fat, problematic skin and hypothyroid issues.

Is skimmed milk recommended for this experiment to keep fat as low as possible? I've personally never had skimmed milk, only semi skimmed (2% fat). However, with 1L 2% fat, that's around 18g fat already. With yogurts, is it easy to make them at home using skimmed milk? I find most store-bought fat free yogurts have strange starches/fillers to thicken the yogurt. How did you incorporate solid foods (of any?) - that's one part of a mostly liquid diet that I struggle with - that and always having sweet foods at each meal.

You don't need solid food apart from a carrot a day and some liver and chocolate weekly.

Nstocks · Mar 31, 2015

Such_Saturation said:
Nstocks said:

I'm going to try this from next week to see if it helps with my bloating, sebaceous fat, problematic skin and hypothyroid issues.

Is skimmed milk recommended for this experiment to keep fat as low as possible? I've personally never had skimmed milk, only semi skimmed (2% fat). However, with 1L 2% fat, that's around 18g fat already. With yogurts, is it easy to make them at home using skimmed milk? I find most store-bought fat free yogurts have strange starches/fillers to thicken the yogurt. How did you incorporate solid foods (of any?) - that's one part of a mostly liquid diet that I struggle with - that and always having sweet foods at each meal.

Click to expand...

You don't need solid food apart from a carrot a day and some liver and chocolate weekly.

That's probably true biologically, but mentally I do have the desire to eat something rather than drink it. Won't the chocolate have too much fat for this experiment?

Such_Saturation · Mar 31, 2015

Nstocks said:
Such_Saturation said:

Nstocks said:

I'm going to try this from next week to see if it helps with my bloating, sebaceous fat, problematic skin and hypothyroid issues.

Is skimmed milk recommended for this experiment to keep fat as low as possible? I've personally never had skimmed milk, only semi skimmed (2% fat). However, with 1L 2% fat, that's around 18g fat already. With yogurts, is it easy to make them at home using skimmed milk? I find most store-bought fat free yogurts have strange starches/fillers to thicken the yogurt. How did you incorporate solid foods (of any?) - that's one part of a mostly liquid diet that I struggle with - that and always having sweet foods at each meal.

Click to expand...

You don't need solid food apart from a carrot a day and some liver and chocolate weekly.

Click to expand...

That's probably true biologically, but mentally I do have the desire to eat something rather than drink it. Won't the chocolate have too much fat for this experiment?

That's true, perhaps oysters are better for this.

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