VoS Uncoupling Thread

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sunmountain said:
Can someone please explain to a lay person (that would be me) why I have gained fat around my middle since peating? Other than stomach sticking out / gut problem. I'm referring to the blubber.

Is it because I'm not burning sugar, or fat? I'm eating both, and a LOT of sugar all day. I do make sure to eat the sugar with gelatin.

just trying to understand.

Thanks
Hi, sm! I've been looking into this since so many viewed the Getting Ripped thread. I think Peat's explanation is that fat is the result, of course, of consuming more calories than you expend - obviously! But let's focus on expending more calories, not consuming less.

And so, when you first start Peating you will consume more calories, but the effects of expending more calories may not start right away. It's only when you achieve a very high level of CO2 in your body, by a process called "uncoupling respiration", that you start to expend calories at a very high rate. Once you start uncoupling at this high level of CO2, you generate extra heat, and the fat literally melts off of you. It's a true "fat-burning miracle".

Now, Peat's program for achieving this "fat-burning miracle" of uncoupling is pretty simple:
1. Select a diet that minimizes intestinal inflammation and unsaturated fat,
2. Avoid meat stripped of cartilage, and
3. Use anti-inflammatory "uncouplers" to improve the redox balance of your cells.

Surprisingly, it's not just Peat who thinks so, even mainstream science is at last starting to acknowledge that Peat is right about the weight loss or fat-burning miracle that comes from uncoupling:

Journal of Biochemistry said:
Mitochondrial uncouplers with an extraordinary dynamic range

Weight gain, leading to obesity, occurs when energy intake consistently exceeds energy expenditure. In principle, obesity can be treated by reducing caloric intake, by increasing expenditure, or by both approaches simultaneously. Current pharmacological therapies using sibutramine or orlistat [1] or, more recently, rimonabant [2] act primarily to reduce energy intake, and energy expenditure has been relatively neglected as a target for obesity therapy [3]. One way to increase energy expenditure is to use uncouplers to weaken the coupling between fuel oxidation and ATP production. Uncouplers work by transporting protons across the mitochondrial inner membrane, short-circuiting the normal pathway of oxidative ATP synthesis driven by proton flow and causing the loss of calories as heat. Uncouplers are usually lipophilic weak acids that pick up a proton, diffuse across the mitochondrial inner membrane into the matrix, deprotonate and then exit as anions before repeating the catalytic cycle.

The notable success of the uncoupler DNP (2,4-dinitrophenol) as a treatment for human obesity in the 1930s provided an important proof-of-concept and showed that the beneficial effect of uncoupling on energy expenditure is not overwhelmed by compensatory increases in caloric intake. The early literature on treatment of humans and previous studies in rats suggest that DNP matches or outperforms modern drug candidates at causing weight loss [1,4–6]. However, the narrow therapeutic window of DNP and other conventional uncouplers led to the abandonment of their official use in treatment of obesity. Increases (3–10-fold) above the minimum effective dose result in too much uncoupling, leading to compromised ATP production, hyperthermia and death. Concern over this narrow therapeutic window was one of the primary reasons that DNP was withdrawn from the market in 1938 [1,5–7].

For uncouplers to work safely, they should cause uncoupling that increases very little as their concentration rises, potentially widening the difference between therapeutic and toxic doses and giving a wide therapeutic window. Knowing which features of uncouplers to manipulate to give the desired wide dynamic range (ratio of concentrations giving maximum and minimum observable uncoupling) is crucial to the rational design of uncouplers that may be safe for use in obesity treatment. In the present study we investigated uncouplers with an extraordinarily wide dynamic range of greater than 106-fold, and analyse the mechanisms by which this is achieved.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2267406/
 
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Ok, dinitrophenol=miracle, but eating butter and aspirin? I don't know :mrgreen:
 

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visionofstrength: care to share more details on how to do this?

What you found out during your journey. I know T3 and aspirin have the uncoupling action but other then that i feel like calories are the only source that really can control if i burn/loose fat
 
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Thyroid will make you eat more and burn more. That's the reason it's not available to the public.
 
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Such_Saturation said:
Ok, dinitrophenol=miracle, but eating butter and aspirin? I don't know :mrgreen:
I had seen that aspirin is a potent uncoupler at certain dosages, but butter?

And so I looked, and you're right! Butyric acid, which is about 3-4% of high-quality butter, looks like it is an uncoupler!

Bravissimo!

Also, it seems the C:12-C:16 saturated fatty acids are active uncouplers, which may mean lauric, myristic and palmitic acid -- found in coconut oil?! And a little farther up at C:18 even oleic acid (coconut and olive oil)?

Others?
 
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I had no idea :cool: but I do sport a nice padding on the abdomen recently.
 
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superhuman said:
visionofstrength: care to share more details on how to do this?

What you found out during your journey. I know T3 and aspirin have the uncoupling action but other then that i feel like calories are the only source that really can control if i burn/loose fat
I'm experimenting on myself now. I've made a number of tweaks at Peat's suggestion. It's really amazing. You can eat unbelievably enormous amounts of fructose/sugar and saturated fats (4,500 -6,000 calories so far), and the fat still stays off - even when you are sedentary! It seems the calories just get burned off by the uncoupling! Crazy!

You will know you are uncoupling, because you will feel very hot! And it may be hard to fall asleep. You may also find you have great energy, as long as you keep eating! If you stop eating for any length of time, even an hour or so, you may start to feel quite jaggedy (which is not pleasant). I keep a honey and cocoa butter snack with me, because it's such a concentrated calorie wollop whenever I need it.
 

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nwo2012 uses dinitrophenol and he is still alive and kicking. :mrgreen:
 

narouz

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2,4-Dinitrophenol

2,4-Dinitrophenol...

It's a strange niche of a world I'm barely aware of...
 

taylor108

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visionofstrength-this is very interesting to me, but could you explain it a bit more? Specifically, is it necessary to be taking T3/other supplements to cause the uncoupling, or is it possible to experience uncoupling just through dietary factors? (ie, eating an anti-inflammatory Peat-style diet and perhaps butter and apsirin as is recommended?)
 
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Charlie said:
nwo2012 uses dinitrophenol and he is still alive and kicking. :mrgreen:
narouz said:
2,4-Dinitrophenol...

It's a strange niche of a world I'm barely aware of...
Peat thinks the benefit of the "uncoupling" is actually to increase the CO2 in the body, which in turn is effective against a broad range of metabolic disorders, not only obesity.

The chemical uncoupler 2,4-dinitrophenol (DNP) was an effective and widely used weight loss drug in the early 1930s. However, DNP's physiology has not been studied in detail as toxicity from excess dosages reduced interest in the clinical use of chemical uncouplers.
 
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taylor108 said:
visionofstrength-this is very interesting to me, but could you explain it a bit more? Specifically, is it necessary to be taking T3/other supplements to cause the uncoupling, or is it possible to experience uncoupling just through dietary factors? (ie, eating an anti-inflammatory Peat-style diet and perhaps butter and apsirin as is recommended?)
As I understand Peat, he thinks the uncouplers work best taken in combination, and in small, frequent doses. He names vitamin E, aspirin, niacinamide, vitamins K and D, thyroid hormone, progesterone, pregnenolone, DHEA, coffee at 4X strength mixed with nonfat milk, fructose and coconut oil.

The other dietary choices are very individual it seems. It's whatever works for you, avoiding irritants, allergens, meat that lacks cartilage and unsaturated fat. Much easier said than done. To some extent, the uncouplers can make up for dietary choices that go wrong.

Perhaps the single most effective thing you can do is live at 9,000 feet, or if that's not practical, use carbon dioxide therapy to emulate the air you would breathe at that elevation. Peat thinks the benefit of uncoupling, after all, is to increase carbon dioxide in the body. High carbon dioxide levels increase oxygen consumption, which is needed for rapid fat-burning.
 
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I did not recommend butter and aspirin. Remember aspirin blocks beta-oxidation in the first place.
 
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Such_Saturation said:
I did not recommend butter and aspirin. Remember aspirin blocks beta-oxidation in the first place.
What's your view of dosing uncouplers? and therapeutic windows? For example, I take one gram of aspirin on waking up, and then 325 mg roughly every two hours or so, trying to keep within the optimal plasma concentration shown here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... p00344.pdf

Each of Peat's "uncouplers" or "redox balancers" may have a similar therapeutic window? And too much may not be a good thing? Users of DNP report that it, too, has a safe minimal effective dose, though I've not used it. Consider DHEA, for example. which Peat thinks should be limited to only 5mg in a dose! My milligram scale barely registers 5 mg!

But anecdotally, just a 5 mg speck of DHEA in combination with thyroid and progesterone, as Peat suggests, seems to be a potent uncoupler!

[Edit: there may be a therapeutic window for the saturated fatty acid uncouplers, like butyric acid in butter. Weston A. Price reported that teaspoon amounts of butter oil improved the health of his patients greatly. Peat advises teaspoon amounts of coconut oil.]
 
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superhuman said:
wow thats cool with taking aspirin so often. What have you noticed since doing that?
The effects of the uncouplers in combination, and in frequent, small therapeutic dosing windows, is noticeable. Towards the end of the two hour window, you begin to feel the effects wearing off, and then the successive dose refreshes you.

The carbon dioxide and redlight therapy has a similar dosing window: when I am away from it too long, I feel the effects wearing off, and each successive dose is refreshing.

I feel very hot, have the energy of a 4 year old, and I'm able to consume enormous amounts of calories without increasing bodyfat.

To Get Ripped (7% bodyfat), I could probably go nonfat, and just focus on protein and fructose, and I would expect to lose whatever scant bodyfat I have very quickly, while maintaining lean body mass. I may do that experiment next, with pics! Paying customers only! :lol:

[Edit: on second thought, I don't know that going nonfat would work. I think I spoke too soon, sorry! To lose bodyfat, I may need to exercise more, without raising lactic acid, rather than be sedentary as I am now.]

I feel like I can understand how the bodybuilders do it, now. I never could before, until I started to grok Peat.
 

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Could you give us an example of your daily routine-diet, aspirin/supplements, exercise, etc? Sorry, I'm just curious and a little confused since I don't really know much about dinitrophenol or CO2. Do you do the bag breathing at all?
 
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I think small and varied would be indeed the way to go, and many Peatish uncouplers don't affect fat burning. Ideally you want your brain to tell your brown fat to feel comfortable working at all times (and brown fat is uncoupled by design) and let the rest of the body bask in the endless carbon dioxide fountain of youth.

I used to know about an obscure brown fat activator which killed a couple of people by hyperthermia. It would take some time but I could find its name again.
 
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Such_Saturation said:
I think small and varied would be indeed the way to go, and many Peatish uncouplers don't affect fat burning. Ideally you want your brain to tell your brown fat to feel comfortable working at all times (and brown fat is uncoupled by design) and let the rest of the body bask in the endless carbon dioxide fountain of youth.

I used to know about an obscure brown fat activator which killed a couple of people by hyperthermia. It would take some time but I could find its name again.
This is interesting. One type of uncoupling is in brown fat, and it involves UCP1. The pathway is somewhat well understood. I experimented with this brown fat uncoupling before I ever learned about Peat. I found I could intentionally activate it by holding my breath, and using norepenephrine. If I did this, I didn't shiver in cold water or even snow. There's even a study of that here http://www.icemanwimhof.com/files/pnas.pdf

But Peat's general theory of uncoupling has taken me completely by surprise. He is talking about uncoupling in brown fat, and also in all the tissues in the body! This is the same kind of uncoupling that DNP achieves, across all tissues, but Peat is pointing us toward way to do this with safe, practical methods.

It's been hard for me to grasp (and I still don't grasp it all). Fortunately, I was able to start by asking you and Sukerbuick and SAFarmer and others for help with the biochemistry. Now, I think I'm finally starting to see it, and experience it. So thank you!
 
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taylor108 said:
Could you give us an example of your daily routine-diet, aspirin/supplements, exercise, etc? Sorry, I'm just curious and a little confused since I don't really know much about dinitrophenol or CO2. Do you do the bag breathing at all?
I do a kind of bag breathing, where I introduce a very fine stream of CO2 into a mask that I'm breathing in. This kind of bag breathing is much safer, because you never get too hypoxic, and you can continue it as long as you like, even while you sleep!

I also use 1/4 cup of activated charcoal every other night.

Other than that, I just do (I think) everything that Peat seems to say that he does himself.

For a diet that minimizes intestinal inflammation and unsaturated fat, I use honey, sugar and cocoa butter, (steady snacking). These work for me, but may not for you? I supplement with about 3 ounces of liver and a glass of orange juice.

For protein that does not have too much methionine and tryptophan, I use nonfat milk and nonfat cottage cheese with salt to taste (steady snacking). These just so happen to work for me, but may not for you?

For anti-inflammatory "uncouplers" I use all of these every few hours or so: vitamin E (400 mg), aspirin (325 mg), niacinamide (250mg), thiamine (50 mg), vitamins K2 and D3 (1 or 2 drops), thyroid (half grain Thyroid-S), progesterone (1 drop Progest-E), DHEA (5 mg), coffee at 4X strength mixed with nonfat milk (steady sipping), magnesium water (2 ounces, recipe here: http://www.afibbers.org/Wallerwater.pdf), and a teaspoon of coconut and MCT oil mixed 50/50.

But when waking up, I take a triple dose of aspirin (1 gram) and a double dose of thyroid (1 grain). I do this to get the plasma concentration up quickly because Peat thinks stress is greatest at night, from dark and hunger.

Hope this helps? I'm sorry if you were expecting more? Peat's ideas are so simple, they seem too good to be true. But then you try it! And wow, is life good!

[Edit: with apologies to milklove who turned me on to this, I forgot to say I use two 250W incandescent bulbs for redlight therapy, as close to my skin as is comfortable and not too hot.]
 

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