Just How Dangerous Is Smoking Really?

Blinkyrocket

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2015
Messages
474
Age
27
mt_dreams said:
Blinkyrocket said:
Anybody who smokes even organic tobacco notice that physical exertion is harder due to worse breathing? Or is emphysema and coughing something that's more likely caused by the stuff in cigarettes besides tobacco?

Been using full leaf tobacco for 10 years and have no respiratory problems. I don't smoke cigarettes, rather I use a pipe or in the hookah, so I'm not sure if the lower heat has made a difference. I am the only one who breathes through the nose during the entire duration of my bball pick-up games, yet I'm the only one who uses tobacco. The only time a cough is when I'm exposed to chlorine vapors. I think anyone who coughs a lot should think twice about smoking, unless they're trying to remove other crap that has accumulated from working in places like welding shops, mining, etc.


for anyone living outside of the US that is afraid of customs charges on tobacco, a lot of countries do not charge duty on whole leaf tobacco. I ordered a couple of pounds for myself & family members and I believe I was charged 80 cents per kg. The only sad part of the situation for me is that the tobacco is grown in Canada, then shipped to the US, then shipped back to me living in Canada.
Sweetness, Im sensitive with all things respiratory. Even though I don't cough a lot.
 

pboy

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2013
Messages
1,681
I just finished a pound I ordered, with shipping it was like 33 bucks, and it lasted nearly 5 months. Most people spend that much on cigarettes in 1 month, so its a huge plus in every way to buy whole leaf. Of course the best part is the experience of it, and the fact its clean and you can destem it also to make it cleaner. Yea Jib and to blinky, it depends on the type of tobacco. I'm still not an expert, the American Spirit organic tobacco, its actually pretty good (the organic one in a pouch) but recently, this last pound I was using was actually significantly different in effect, which makes me think its the balance of constituents in tobacco that make the difference and effect. The American spirit is just a basic tobacco that smells like the type used in ciggarrettes, and its not really that much a bronch dilator...very mild if anything. I bought some recently as I ran out of the last batch, and it made me realize how different it is (this is what I used to solely smoke). Id forgotten or not really realized how bronchiodilating the last batch I bought was, because when I started using this American spirit again its evident that its not dilating at all and in fact might be a bit astringing on the breath if I'm not careful how I use it. The taste, smell, mouthfeel, everything is different about it. The last batch I bought was the organic brightleaf Canadian virgina leaves, and it was basically something knew to me...most people wouldn't even recognize it as tobacco. The bag smelled like warm French fries or something, dunno, kind of a unique smell, with hints of yellow tomato smells, like citrusy in it. Nothing like the American spirit or what most tobacco people are used to smells like, which is more like hay. When the brightleaf was burned, it smelled like corn chips, or popcorn, or like a freshly toasted tortilla (it literally smelled like, when id walk into the room, like someone just made a batch of popcorn but even better...like veeery warm grounding rich smell of cooking), had occasional yellow tomato citrus hints, and effect was different. It was a big time bronchiodilator, which now that I realize the difference is a huge thing...even when I was hungry or had a bit too much fluid, both states that normally limit respiration, the brightleaf smoke would facilitate deep breathing despite this. One thing ive learned on my journey is breath really is nearly everything, respiration, its spirit...its connection to life, its feeling ok and good. Basically breath is directly correlated to respiration, I'm sure on a cellular level also, and to your feeling of bliss, or as close to that as can be. I think with cannabis a huge thing alone is the fact it is a major bronchiodilator. Ive also found bronchiodilating herbs to be the most 'cleansing' things there are in the sense of your immune system and wiring, like they get under deep seated issues, beliefs, and things like that, that pretty much nothing else can, or just under current nutritional inadequacies or imbalances. Theobromine has that effect also being a bronchodilator, PEA, not many other things, but with tobacco (apparently only certain strains) and cannabis its without a strong stimulation so its a more clear thinking thing which I prefer. I'm gonna order some more tobacco soon, ill probably get a few different types so I can see the effects of different types

Absolutely though, the wheezing and shortness of breath people get from smoke is 100% the paper, and chemicals (though note last paragraph, smoking ash can have a negative effect, but its not even close to how bad the paper and chems are). Years ago when I smoked cigs like before I was health conscious, kinda high school early college days that's what happened, and its the same with anything...a joint, or blunt with a cheap paper, or anything like that is terrible..the next day you wake up with like major head pressure and a gross feeling. Smoking pure pipe tobacco ive never had such issues, I wake up normally and actually more refreshed because I sleep better and feel like i have a cleansed palate before i sleep and in fact ive never even got a cold or anything, not once...so if anything it helps, of course diet and lifestyle and spiritual state is the key thing, mental state, your conscience, things like that, but no...tobacco itself doesn't casue any respritory problems, and certain strains actually are dilating to the lungs in a very clean healing way, you might still hock out a little bit like right after you smoke, but like mt dreams said, its actually a useful thing, especially in the toxic world we live in. Whenever I smell or breath in artificial scents or offensive smells, or even like look at something gross with my mouth open, the tobacco smoke seems to like purify the respritory tract, deodorize things and facilitates a hock out that like refreshes the lung and mouth palate. Ill know more about what the difference in strains of tobacco are and how they effect...right now id have to say basic tobacco blends, which are probably mostly burley but with some other in there, aren't necessarily good for the lungs, they can help like I said throw out toxins and probably kill bacteria and stuff like that so its a good immune protective tool, but the Virginia brightleaf is a significant bronchiodilator which is like...a very good thing. I think its nicotine is a little less and its a more wet smoke..the bowl after has moisture in it even if leaf is dry, and has a stronger flavor...I think it has a higher sugar content...and another thing I noticed with it is that when I sweat it produces a smell that lingers and like in my hair and stuff, its not bad but not great either, kinda just a mild corn tortilla smell or something but it does seem to make the sweat more clammy which I don't like that much. The basic tobacco, is more dry and warming...makes me feel like I'm wearing a warm coat even like without a shirt on, and feels like circulation is right to the tip of the skin level...which is nice and increases mobility therein, sweat has no smell and is dryer, and I love those aspects of it, but it doesn't really bronchiodilate. Maybe ill find a good intermediate. It could be also that the American spirit, despite my best attempts, I'm getting more stem residue in there too, which can be avoided with full leaf, and the stems are actually the harshest parts.

The way you smoke, so therefore the way the tobacco is broken up is huge. Ill drop some experience here. If you notice, the initial burn of the leafs is smooth with a better flavor, but if the same areas of the bowl get lit once theyre already partially ash, it gets grosser and actually hurts the breath. Like if I smoke or re light the ashed parts, it can actually be bad on my lungs, temporatily hurt breathing, where as if I leave the bowl porous with larger pieces and just let it naturally burn gently, like light one half then the other, never ripping it, and not re lighting parts ive already hit, its MUCH smoother, and never closes off the lungs. It could be something to do with inhaling soot. That was one of the biggest things I realized a while back and actually makes or breaks it. That's kind of a major problem with the pre cut tobacco's, is that its already somewhat powdered or really small particles so its pretty hard to actually control how you want the burn to be and avoid re combusting partially ashed parts...and the more of that that's inhaled, its like opposing the potential bronch dilating effect it would have. This also applies to smoking cannabis or probably anything also, you never want to re light ash or take strong rips...want it to be smooth, decisive, but smooth, and use small bowls so you can control that factor of it, make the bowls porous

what type you trying out jib? that's actually the webbie I bought from
 

jyb

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2012
Messages
2,783
Location
UK
Blinkyrocket said:
Anybody who smokes even organic tobacco notice that physical exertion is harder due to worse breathing? Or is emphysema and coughing something that's more likely caused by the stuff in cigarettes besides tobacco?

No the opposite in fact. I experimented with a small tobacco producer, hand rolled, and my biggest surprise is that is relaxes the lungs or at least breathing. I have a friend with asthma who agrees with this helpful effect. I'm still cautious about using tobacco regularly, but it is one of the most powerful mind relaxants I ever tried, even at 1-2 cigs per day, but the effect extends to the lung and breathing rhythm. I wouldn't be surprised if smoking 1 cig before a swimming competition would improve athletes performance.
 

Jib

Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
591
Lots of updates here. I'm wanting to get my pipe out now and try smoking with that after reading pboy's post. Just got some Veracruz Nocturne tubes. Big mistake. They look cool as anything but they're harsh and obviously have chemicals added to them. I've had good results so far with the 100mm Zen Full Flavor tubes and as long as I'm using tubes will probably stick to those, although I've heard good things about Beretta tubes as well.

The shredder I use is a .8mm shredder for cigarette tobacco. 1mm shredders are better for pipe tobacco. The brand is "Magic Cut" for anyone who's interested. They pop up on eBay once in a while. I think the ones Leaf Only sells are 1mm. You have to be careful with the shredders, keep the nuts tightened and clean it out and NEVER force it, but they work very well.

I want to custom fit a TarGard Permanent Filter System to the end of the stem on my pipe, and see if that works. I'm a big fan of the TarGard and never smoke without it.

Getting rid of the paper and smoking out of a pipe might be the next step for me. We'll see. But fitting the TarGard to the stem on the pipe is something I'll have to figure out myself. I like doing custom work so we'll see how that goes. I have a feeling that a pipe with a TarGard filter on the stem could be close to ideal for smoking tobacco.

Anyway, as for what I've been smoking, I've been shredding, toasting, casing and blending whole leaf tobacco. These are the ones I'm doing right now:

-Yenidje (a type of Turkish tobacco)
-Burley
-Virginia
-Canadian

I also just got some Perique tobacco. Very strong. Not sure what to make of it yet, but you only use a very small amount. Very peppery, spicy flavor.

I tried some Brightleaf and it was like smoking air. Super light.

The Turkish tobaccos are very light and mild but VERY aromatic. It's almost like incense. The aroma is wonderful. The Yenidje is my personal favorite. My friend who I'm splitting tobacco with is a huge fan of the Izmir variety. The Semi-Oriental is also very good.

Both of us like using predominantly Turkish tobaccos in our blends. Mostly Turkish, then Burley and Virginia for flavor, aroma and body to give more complexity to the smoke. The Canadian is OK but both of us like the Virginia and Burley better for the greater amount of character they have.

I toasted the burley at 305 for about 20-25 minutes, and HOLY COW!!!! It was caustic as anything. Like napalm or something. My eyes burned and I couldn't breathe I was so shocked. Whatever is burning off of that stuff is NASTY!

According to this website, it's the natural nitrogenous compounds in the tobacco:

http://fumo-bros-tobacco.com/how-to-pro ... bacco.html

Burley is air cured, compared to flue cured Canadian and Virginia varieties. But even with the Canadian and Virginia, when I toasted them (around 275 degrees), I did notice some caustic odors coming from the oven. Nowhere near as much as the burley, but still caustic. Eyes burning worse than when you're cutting onions. Felt like my whole body was being assaulted.

Toasting the tobaccos separately after shredding them has VASTLY improved the smoothness of the smoke. Combined with the TarGard, I get a rich, full flavor, and nice, thick smoke, but no harshness.

I even tried a cigarette with straight Burley, which is notorious for being harsh/strong. It was one of the best cigarettes I've ever had.

As for 'casing,' I simply got a fingertip sprayer bottle from Wal-Mart and filled it with amaretto. Between toasting, e.g. every 5 minutes or so, I'd take the tray out of the oven, and give the tobacco a good spritz.

I also use an MD816 moisture meter. Allegedly, the best moisture for tobacco to smoke is about 10-14%. With the moisture meter, which you can get for about 8 bucks on eBay, you can dial it in perfectly.

You have to be careful with toasting the tobacco, because it'll get bone dry, and if you move it while it's dry it'll crumble into dust. That's why I spritz it. The natural sugars in a liquer, for example, can also help the smoothness of the tobacco. I think it has something to do with pH and the sugar/nitrogen balance or something.

I could hardly taste any amaretto in the smoke at all in the finished product. Very, very faint, if you didn't know I used it you'd never know -- but it helped smooth it out.

I'm currently using conventional whole leaf tobacco. Haven't tried the organic leaves yet, but probably will in the near future when I run out of tobacco.
 

Jib

Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
591
I keep each shredded, toasted and cased tobacco in its own jar. e.g. Turkish, Burley, American, Canadian, etc. I just use Mason jars. Keeps everything organized and I can make blends at will without sacrificing a whole batch of shredded tobacco.

The Burley needs the most toasting because of it being air cured and being very harsh. After toasting, I can smoke a cig of pure Burley and it tastes amazing. I don't know if the Yenidje needs any toasting at all. I toasted it for around 5-6 minutes at 250F and only noticed aromatics coming out of the oven -- no acrid, caustic anything flowing out, like with the Burley and the Canadian and American.

The Yenidje on its own is very light, very aromatic, and very good. I haven't bought any brightleaf yet but I have tried cigarettes made from them and like I said before, it's like smoking air. Unbelievably light. I might incorporate it into some blends in the future.

Gonna have to re-learn how to pack a pipe and keep it lit, and work on fitting the TarGard over the stem. I have one pipe made completely out of wood and I just turned the end of the stem on a spindle sander and got the TarGard to fit right over it. I'll see how that works if I can keep the damn thing lit ;)

For the record, I tried a commercial American Spirit Perique (black pack) the other day. I almost can't finish the pack. It's awful compared to the blends I'm making -- boring, and even a little harsh. American Spirit is probably one of the best commercial cigs available, but it doesn't compare to whole leaf tobacco that you prepared yourself. Night and day difference. Could have a lot to do with the chemicals -- they say 'additie free,' but who knows what's legally defined as an additive? Probably a lot of additives in those cigs that they don't legally have to say are additives.

Whatever the case, I like the ritual of shredding tobacco too. Toasting it, casing it, blending it, packing it. It's really enjoyable.
 

sladerunner69

Member
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
3,307
Age
31
Location
Los Angeles
pboy said:
post 62394
4peatssake said:
Well, most of us on this forum greatly indulge in sugar. :lol:
I smoked a pack a day from about 14 to 31 and only quit when I started to throw up every time I took a puff on a cigarette. My body "just said no." ;)

I'm not against smoking by any means but I think people who do smoke are wise to roll their own and avoid the additives in big tobacco smoke. I have a friend who is very clean in her tobacco smoke and she is extremely healthy and balanced.

I think what's particularly harmful about smoking is the disdain society now heaps upon smokers. Same kind of shaming that is done to diabetics who dare to eat sugar! :roll:

indeed...I smoke in a very pure way...its like the south americans who are old men with perfect skin who've smoked their whole life. Honestly though im healthier than all my friends and family and pretty much everyone ive worked with also, and I smoke a lot, my skin is fine, I never get sunburned even hours in the sun, and I haven't been to any doctor or anything like that (whole concept seems like a joke to me now) since ive been smoking, approx. 8years. Many factors involved, but I don't think its a coincidence with the smoke, native americans were considered physical specimens with beautiful skin and they smoked a lot...basically the powers that be when they enslave or indenture or domesticate native populations, they either make illegal and punish and spread lies about their power plants (coca, tobacco, marijuana, ect, any entheogen or substance that increases hormones), or they defile it into such a terrible form of itself that people don't even remember what the plant used to be...aka cigarettes and most chocolate. At the same time these plants become marked up in price to such a degree its absurd...like a pound of marijuana is iike 3000 dollars...LOL, you can buy a pound of hand rolled organic green tea for like 30 dollars, very high quality, just as a reference...and marijuana is more easily, and widely growable, and yields much more product than tea....same with tobacco, its absurdly priced...a pound is like 70-80 dollars, when it should be like 10-15 in a real free market, and im sure other stuff that has become illegal is WAY overpriced also. Its basically a way to tame and control people, always has been


It only looks like they have perfect skin because its so dark. It's why it's difficult sometimes to tell the age of anyone with dark skin.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

sladerunner69

Member
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
3,307
Age
31
Location
Los Angeles
RichardWhite said:
post 62298 Hi all, I'm the author of this book and found this discussion through the referrals part of the website. This is, so far (!), probably the most civilised discussion around smoking I have seen on a forum - sadly, they invariably involve lots of accusations that anyone who is questioning or not believing the full extent of the media accusations must be working for "Big Tobacco". My disclaimer on the site and in the book that I have never received any money from a tobacco company still remains true, if that has any impact on how people view my content.

I'm new to this forum and thought I would say hi and that I'm happy to answer any questions you guys may have. Since I released the book there has been lots more information, and this report was passed my way last week - A Critique of Nicotine Addiction http://books.google.nl/books?id=xaU2bon ... &q&f=false

I'd also like to address a couple of points raised here:

Peater said:
I read it a while ago and found it mostly plausible apart from a section that mentioned smoker's cough not being harmful but a beneficial act that rids the body of toxins.

I've met enough old smokers to know that's just bunk. (That said - they were old, at least! In their 70's)

"Harmful" should be defined, I think. Is the cough itself causing harm? Probably not. Is it symptomatic of a problem? Perhaps. I'm of the opinion that we tend to view coughing as bad because it accompanies illness, but the statement I made in the book was that the mucous layer promoted by smoking adds a layer of protection against invading carcinogens that we inhale. Many smokers testify to suffering fewer colds than their non-smoking friends, or that they themselves suffered before they smoked. That doesn't mean a person can't point out that the smoking initiated the coughing, which could indicate it being an irritant - there is room for both points.

As has been mentioned by pboy and Zachs, tobacco has been revered for millennia for its various medicinal properties, including it being anti-bacterial.

BingDing said:
No, smoking cigarettes isn't dangerous at all. :roll: In fact, it's healthy. :roll: It's a hormesis thing, dealing with the low oxygen supply to the brain from the CO, the toxic NO, the many carcinogens, mutagens, excitotoxins, as well as the precusrsors to those, will make you stronger. :roll:

Dump out an ashtray and rub your thumb across the black s*** on the bottom of it. That's what is coating your lungs when you smoke cigarettes.

COPD used to be called emphysema, they call it when your lungs can't transfer enough oxygen to your blood to sustain life. My grandpa died of it when he was 72. He smoked his whole adult life, you think that is a coincidence?

So smoke a pack a day for forty years, and you will be as healthy as if you were 18 YO again. :roll:

The particulate matter in the ashtray is not the same as what is inhaled - hence the quotes in my book from surgeons performing autopsies that they cannot tell by looking at the lungs whether the deceased smoked or not. Remember, the photos we so often see of a black, smoker's lung are invariably of the outside - where smoke never reaches anyway. Past efforts to convince people of smoking turning lungs black have been debunked as coal miners' lungs or pig lungs, and cancerous lungs are also frequently used because the disease has discoloured and ravaged them.

COPD is an umbrella term for emphysema and chronic bronchitis. Whether your grandpa's unfortunate suffering of the disease is a coincidence or not cannot be conclusively answered for an individual case, but I did dedicate an entire chapter to emphysema in the book and you may be interested in the following:

1) at the time of writing the book, emphysema rates were increasing - but smoking rates have been in decline for decades
2) Many people with emphysema lack the gene that controls the liver's production of alpha-1 antitrypsin (A1AT), a protein. This protein controls or degrades the enzyme that destroys alveolar tissue - and the destruction of alveolar tissue is the problem with emphysema. There is more about A1AT, but I'm trying to keep this reply short. Suffice it to say, if you research emphysema you will find studies on A1AT deficiency, and you will find things written about smoking causing emphysema, but you're unlikely to find a study showing a causative link between smoking and the disease.


I've just noticed how long this post has become, so I will just add this link for anyone that is interested in it; it's from my blog, and is an extract from Michael McFadden's 'Dissecting Antismokers' Brains', explaining the chemical composition of secondhand smoke: http://www.smokescreens.org/220808-the- ... and-smoke/

Richard



Richard what is your view on this recently published study in regard to inhalation of smoke contributing to the development of emphysema?

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/emphysema/article_em.htm
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Dan W

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2013
Messages
1,528
Here's an interesting option for people that want nicotine without the usual extra ingredients in lozenges/gums/patches: Pixotine toothpicks. They're just USP grade nicotine extract > 99.8% purity, vegetable glycerin, and water. And presumably toothpicks :)
 

BingDing

Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
976
Location
Tennessee, USA
Dan Wich said:
post 106537 Here's an interesting option for people that want nicotine without the usual extra ingredients in lozenges/gums/patches: Pixotine toothpicks. They're just USP grade nicotine extract > 99.8% purity, vegetable glycerin, and water. And presumably toothpicks :)

Thanks, Dan. It's an interesting alternative. Their web site says "Original Nicotine and Vegetable Glycerin Flavor with no other additives (other than water)" The cynic in me questions what "Flavor" means. It's often aldehydes. But I'll be glad to hit a toothpick between trips to the airplane bathroom for an E-cig hit, LOL.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Dan W

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2013
Messages
1,528
BingDing said:
post 106543 Their web site says "Original Nicotine and Vegetable Glycerin Flavor with no other additives (other than water)"
I'm hoping that's just to distinguish it from the upcoming cinnamon and mint flavors, read like Original [...] Flavor.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

onioneyedox

Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Messages
108
I think I read from reddit about some guy using nicotine topically. Apparently there are vaping products that contain only glycerine and nicotine. Just saw it by chance, I think he was reporting positive experience on r/nootropics.
 

supbroner

Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2015
Messages
5
Last edited by a moderator:

Jib

Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
591
targard 2.jpg targard 1.jpg

That's my TarGard permanent filter. Maybe from 5-7 cigarettes or so.

I never smoke without it. Clean it and re-use it indefinitely. Once you see the stuff that piles up in there as you smoke, you can never go back. If a person smokes, I always recommend these things.
 

Luann

Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2016
Messages
1,615
Meh. What about like, the NCBI stuff about cigs and prostaglandins

or are we just discounting all that as well
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom