Using Vitamins (biotin) For Improving Glucose Control

haidut

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Given the number of threads on the forum from people experiencing reduced insulin sensitivity or weight gain on Peatarian diet I thought that I post some threads on how these conditions can be ameliorated by specific substances that Peat has written about. This thread is about vitamin B7 (biotin) and lists both human and animal studies.
The human dosages based on human and animal studies, shown to have effect on blood glucose and insulin sensitivity are in the range of 2mg-15mg daily. That seems quite high, but biotin is reportedly non-toxic even in doses 10 times higher, and so far no adverse effects have been reported in the human trials with dosages of 15mg daily. So, taking 2mg-3mg biotin daily should be fairly safe and should be enough to have an effect on blood glucose levels and insulin resistance. In addition, biotin has been shown to reduce lipogenesis and reduce fat weight of diabetic animals, while having no adverse effects on muscle.
The next threads will be on vitamin B1 (thiamine) and B6 (riboflavin) as they both have an effect on both blood glucose and insulin sensitivity.

1. Reviews of biotin
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15992682
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15992683
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14690760
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10466187
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10416947
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20869286

2. Human studies of biotin
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3679599/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8820510
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14749229
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17109595
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17496732
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17506119
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17684468

3. Animal studies of biotin
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14741710
"...When islets were stimulated with glucose plus biotin, the ATP/ADP ratio increased to approximately 160% of the ATP/ADP ratio in islets stimulated with glucose alone. The rate of glucose oxidation, assessed by CO(2) production, was also about 2-fold higher in islets treated with biotin. These increasing effects of biotin were proportional to the effects seen in insulin secretion. There are no previous reports of vitamins, such as biotin, directly affecting ATP synthesis. Our data indicate that biotin enhances ATP synthesis in islets following the increased rate of substrate oxidation in mitochondria and that, as a consequence of these events, glucose-induced insulin release is reinforced by biotin.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11833042
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9268917
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9089478
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3280936

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1171166
"...Estrogen stimulated the enzyme activity in all these organs but adrenal. The study suggests that the primary reason for an acute dose of biotin-induced loss of pregnancy is blockage of estrogen production, which probably regulates endogenous progesterone secretion. The associated metabolic derangements are probably secondary to estrogen deficiency and are discussed."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15539296
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18460817
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20655901
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22218395
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22841397
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23211098
 
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I remember any more than 3500mcg would give me the same fat-starved feeling as niacinamide, so I can confirm this.
 

khan

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I have asked the similar question in another thread but I think this thread is more relevant to my question. I am taking biotin once a week and it calms me down nicely and I feel very good. I had a bit elevated liver enzymes checked in January 2015. My questions are that Can I take biotin everyday? Can biotin elevates liver enzymes?
 
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haidut

haidut

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khan said:
I have asked the similar question in another thread but I think this thread is more relevant to my question. I am taking biotin once a week and it calms me down nicely and I feel very good. I had a bit elevated liver enzymes checked in January 2015. My questions are that Can I take biotin everyday? Can biotin elevates liver enzymes?

I have never heard of that happening or seen studies showing it. If anything, biotin should lower liver enzymes if it is blocking estrogen production like the study above shows. Also, they are giving it to diabetic and obese people who often have liver disease as well. If they can do well then I think it's safe enough. However, I'd monitor enzyme levels just in case. You never know how something will affect an individual.
 

Stac3y

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Every time I have tried to supplement with biotin, my face and scalp broke out horribly. This suggests it does have some sort of hormonal influence. I have a similar problem when using pregnenolone, l-glutamine, chasteberry, all estrogen blockers.
 

khan

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haidut said:
khan said:
I have asked the similar question in another thread but I think this thread is more relevant to my question. I am taking biotin once a week and it calms me down nicely and I feel very good. I had a bit elevated liver enzymes checked in January 2015. My questions are that Can I take biotin everyday? Can biotin elevates liver enzymes?

I have never heard of that happening or seen studies showing it. If anything, biotin should lower liver enzymes if it is blocking estrogen production like the study above shows. Also, they are giving it to diabetic and obese people who often have liver disease as well. If they can do well then I think it's safe enough. However, I'd monitor enzyme levels just in case. You never know how something will affect an individual.

Thanks.
 

SQu

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Would something that raises liver enzymes also make you feel good? Is that possible?
 
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sueq said:
Would something that raises liver enzymes also make you feel good? Is that possible?

Yes, like vodka.
 

sweetpeat

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Such_Saturation said:
sueq said:
Would something that raises liver enzymes also make you feel good? Is that possible?

Yes, like vodka.

:lol: Ok, you just made me snort my coffee

But seriously, I think aspirin can raise liver enzymes even though it does other helpful things in the body, right?
 

NathanK

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This is fascinating. This should be a must read for all those peatarians dealing with hypertriglycemia.

One thing also that stuck out to me in a few of those studies is that biotin lowers gluconeogenisis. I'm extrapolating that this may help those dieters that want to lose estrogenic fat, but not their sexy muscles along with it. Impressive and definitely worth testing out.
 

Nicholas

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do you realize how crazy it sounds to say that a dietary group needs a compensatory supplement to be normal? It's like the thinking of vegetarians taking b-vitamins to be normal. i keep thinking of that quote from the tiger documentary, "if the treatments aren't working, it means our model is not accurate". the peatarian model (or understanding of the body and diet) is not accurate.
 

NathanK

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Nicholas said:
post 102331 do you realize how crazy it sounds to say that a dietary group needs a compensatory supplement to be normal? It's like the thinking of vegetarians taking b-vitamins to be normal. i keep thinking of that quote from the tiger documentary, "if the treatments aren't working, it means our model is not accurate". the peatarian model (or understanding of the body and diet) is not accurate.

When your body has been damaged to the point of imbalance and inability to assimilate vitamins, no. And all of a sudden eating properly after dozens of years of consuming harmful substances won't fix you over night. Your premise is incorrect.

To the contrary of your quote, and your own situation, following the advice and science of Ray Peat and this board is the only thing that has nearly cured me of all my ailments after regressing for years trying everything else. So my model is pretty spot on.
 
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charlie

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Nicholas said:
post 102331 do you realize how crazy it sounds to say that a dietary group needs a compensatory supplement to be normal? It's like the thinking of vegetarians taking b-vitamins to be normal. i keep thinking of that quote from the tiger documentary, "if the treatments aren't working, it means our model is not accurate". the peatarian model (or understanding of the body and diet) is not accurate.
Ray Peat has said, and I paraphrase, that the body might need unphysiological doses of a certain vitamin/mineral/hormones to overcome the state its in.

:hattip
 
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haidut

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Charlie said:
post 102335
Nicholas said:
post 102331 do you realize how crazy it sounds to say that a dietary group needs a compensatory supplement to be normal? It's like the thinking of vegetarians taking b-vitamins to be normal. i keep thinking of that quote from the tiger documentary, "if the treatments aren't working, it means our model is not accurate". the peatarian model (or understanding of the body and diet) is not accurate.
Ray Peat has said, and I paraphrase, that the body might need unphysiological doses of a certain vitamin/mineral/hormones to overcome the state its in.

:hattip

Yes, he talked about it many times, but the one I remember most clearly is the article about riboflavin and the
retina.
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ro ... ging.shtml
"...But in reality, nutritional requirements are strongly influenced by history and present circumstances. For example, when corneal mitochondria have been damaged by riboflavin deficiency, they have been found to subsequently require more than the normal amount of the vitamin to function properly. And the presence of a certain amount of one nutrient often increases or decreases the amount of other nutrients needed."
 
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Nicholas

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NathanK said:
post 102334
Nicholas said:
post 102331 do you realize how crazy it sounds to say that a dietary group needs a compensatory supplement to be normal? It's like the thinking of vegetarians taking b-vitamins to be normal. i keep thinking of that quote from the tiger documentary, "if the treatments aren't working, it means our model is not accurate". the peatarian model (or understanding of the body and diet) is not accurate.

When your body has been damaged to the point of imbalance and inability to assimilate vitamins, no. And all of a sudden eating properly after dozens of years of consuming harmful substances won't fix you over night. Your premise is incorrect.

To the contrary of your quote, and your own situation, following the advice and science of Ray Peat and this board is the only thing that has nearly cured me of all my ailments after regressing for years trying everything else. So my model is pretty spot on.

you're putting words in my mouth. i am also not against Peat or his research. i am only highlighting that this post by Haidut addressing those who have developed problems since becoming peatarian should reconsider the peatarian model rather than start finding the best supplement/s to wage warfare. none of my healing practices were stumbled upon on this forum....but i certainly have gained much awareness from Peat. There is a great disparity between this forum and Ray Peat's research and philosophy.
 
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Nicholas

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haidut said:
post 102363
Charlie said:
post 102335
Nicholas said:
post 102331 do you realize how crazy it sounds to say that a dietary group needs a compensatory supplement to be normal? It's like the thinking of vegetarians taking b-vitamins to be normal. i keep thinking of that quote from the tiger documentary, "if the treatments aren't working, it means our model is not accurate". the peatarian model (or understanding of the body and diet) is not accurate.
Ray Peat has said, and I paraphrase, that the body might need unphysiological doses of a certain vitamin/mineral/hormones to overcome the state its in.

:hattip

Yes, he talked about it many times, but the one I remember most clearly is the article about riboflavin and the
retina.
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ro ... ging.shtml
"...But in reality, nutritional requirements are strongly influenced by history and present circumstances. For example, when corneal mitochondria have been damaged by riboflavin deficiency, they have been found to subsequently require more than the normal amount of the vitamin to function properly. And the presence of a certain amount of one nutrient often increases or decreases the amount of other nutrients needed."

oh, of course. but you introduced this post mentioning problems on the peatarian diet. So you're saying with this quote and your intro. that Ray Peat is recommending unphysiological doses of a supplement/s to counteract damage from a diet named after him? Shouldn't we be addressing the flaws in the "Peatarian way" rather than trying to use supplements to make a faulty "way" "work"??
 
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charlie

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Nicholas said:
post 102395 So you're saying with this quote and your intro. that Ray Peat is recommending unphysiological doses of a supplement/s to counteract damage from a diet named after him?
Other then you, who implied that this diet was causing damage?

...damaged by riboflavin deficiency

The damage was done and needs to be overcome and sometimes that takes extraordinary measures.

:hattip
 
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haidut

haidut

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Nicholas said:
post 102395
haidut said:
post 102363
Charlie said:
post 102335
Nicholas said:
post 102331 do you realize how crazy it sounds to say that a dietary group needs a compensatory supplement to be normal? It's like the thinking of vegetarians taking b-vitamins to be normal. i keep thinking of that quote from the tiger documentary, "if the treatments aren't working, it means our model is not accurate". the peatarian model (or understanding of the body and diet) is not accurate.
Ray Peat has said, and I paraphrase, that the body might need unphysiological doses of a certain vitamin/mineral/hormones to overcome the state its in.

:hattip

Yes, he talked about it many times, but the one I remember most clearly is the article about riboflavin and the
retina.
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ro ... ging.shtml
"...But in reality, nutritional requirements are strongly influenced by history and present circumstances. For example, when corneal mitochondria have been damaged by riboflavin deficiency, they have been found to subsequently require more than the normal amount of the vitamin to function properly. And the presence of a certain amount of one nutrient often increases or decreases the amount of other nutrients needed."

oh, of course. but you introduced this post mentioning problems on the peatarian diet. So you're saying with this quote and your intro. that Ray Peat is recommending unphysiological doses of a supplement/s to counteract damage from a diet named after him? Shouldn't we be addressing the flaws in the "Peatarian way" rather than trying to use supplements to make a faulty "way" "work"??

Yes and no. I introduced this post since some people have blood sugar issues when getting on the Peat diet. That pathological reason is not the Peat diet but the fact that through years of burning fat they have become insulin resistant, so eating glucose initially results in high blood glucose. In other words, hypothyroid people have high adrenalin and cortisol and as such lose muscle, have high lipolysis and through the Randle cycle are unable to metabolize glucose properly. Some of the B vitamins, like biotin, are very helpful in maintaining proper glucose control and can help restore insulin sensitivity while the person works on lowering the stress hormones. I, personally, also had blood sugar issues back in 2012 when I first tried the Peat diet but they went away after a few months on 1,500mg niacinamide and high dose aspirin. So, if your insulin sensitivity is fine then you will have no problems with the Peat diet.
It's really that simple really. If you have chronic stress, your sympathetic system will be in overdrive and there may even be some adaptive changes so that it stays overactive even after months on the Peat diet. So, high adrenalin and high cortisol due to high stress will keep you insulin resistant until these hormones are lowered somehow and excessive lipolysis stops. How you lower stress hormones is a whole different issue. Some people do fine just by increasing sugar intake, other may need supplementation with aspirin and the B vitamins, and then others still may need anti-stress drugs like clonidine and cyproheptadine. Remember, insulin resistance is reversible, and has been done many times. Some of the most effective drugs are inhibitors of 11beta-HSD1, which is repsonsible for synthesizing cortisol. If the person is in the group where the Peat diet is making things worse, I would consider taking some of the vitamins and supplements mentioned on the forum, and if that does not work either it's time to talk to your doctor about clonidine/cyproheptadine/bromocriptine/lisuride and so on. Bromocriptine is approved for treating type II diabetes in the USA. Why do you think this is so? Because it lowers both adrenaline and cortisol and lowers free fatty acids.
So, my gripes with the Peat diet were due to my own ignorance at the time. With enough reading and experimentation you will find out the man is right just about 100% of the time.
Here is some other food for thought. If stress is really not good for us or for any of the studied animals so far then try to think about how valid is the hypothesis of "progress through stress and survival of the fittest".
Yes, I do mean the current theory of evolution and widely accepted business practices (purportedly modeled after evolution). There is no reasonable doubt about the validity of evolution as a theory of organisms evolving. I am questioning the part that is happens through constant stress and survival strain. How can you expect an organism to continuously evolve into a higher being if constant stress is the hallmark of regress??!
 
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