PCOS, Amenorrhea, Progest-E Dosage

Peat's_Girl

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I haven't been menstruating for a few years now (I'm doctor-phobic so I don't know what's wrong with me; I think it's PCOS or something hormonal. I've always had this problem but after trying BC I vowed to never go back and find my own way) so I have no idea how much to take and when.
I ordered my first bottle from ElectricalBody as well as Thyrodine (I'm really oberweight and suspect thyroid problems).
I read the instructions but they're a bit confusing to me (I'm a newbie!)

All and any advice on dosage (of both) would be very appreciated! :cool:
 

aguilaroja

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Peat's_Girl said:
I haven't been menstruating for a few years now...
I ordered my first bottle from ElectricalBody as well as Thyrodine (I'm really oberweight and suspect thyroid problems)....

First, from a Peat-y viewpoint, hold off on the Thyrodine. Dr. Peat is perhaps more concerned about iodine excess than iodine deficient, unless there is severe undernourishment or you live in an endemically iodine deficient region.

Second, you might do an inventory both of estrogen excess symptoms and low thyroid symptoms. Search the forum also for guidance also about tracking daily resting pulse and temperature.

Third, if it is okay to say, how old are you? Have their been known hormone/menstrual/gynecologic problems to date? What were periods like (before/during/after) when you were having them? What other difficulties, if any, have there been aside from lack of menses?

IMNHO, there are two general approaches to using Progest-E. Some people with severe issues start at a large amount, while others titrate up gradually. The large-amount-at-the-start approach is described, for instance, here:

https://www.longnaturalhealth.com/sites ... ctions.pdf

My experience is that the choice of approach depends on part on the severity of symptoms, and in part on the individual metabolic background factors.

Also, please have a look at Dr. Peat's website and select articles (free) related to your situation, such as:

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/pr ... ries.shtml

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/th ... ones.shtml

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ho ... ging.shtml

(It is not suggested that you are menopausal, only that some physiology at that time of life is informative about progesterone and estrogen functions.)
 
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Peat's_Girl

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Hey aguilaroja, thanks a bunch for your detailed reply!

I just turned 26 (in August). When I got my period (13 I think) it was never painful, until I went on BC for a few months. I stopped because it was super painful and I preferred not to have it at all.

I don't quite remember when they stopped being regular... Maybe 19(?) It's also when I started gaining weight (my physician implied PCOS but never actually diagnosed). Before going on BC a doctor at the university clinic made me take a blood test and I remember her saying that it seems like I'm always ovulating... So... Yeah. All I have are these bits and pieces to go on and not much money ;D

I don't know if I have symptoms. What do you count as symptoms? I just want to sort of lose weight (which I can't seem to do), get my energy back, feel better. Pretty simple stuff.

Is Canada a iodine deficient region?

Sorry, I'm really new and I've only read a handful of Peat's articles so far. I'll be sure to read those. I just wanted to jump into it since the package arrived today.
 
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Peat's_Girl

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I also had a possible case of kidney stones... I felt a horrible pain in my lower backside one night during a party but ignored it because it went away after a few minutes. Lo and behold a week or so after I woke up in the most horrible pain I've ever felt. I crawled to the washroom and spent the night there puking uncontrollably. Then 8 hours in the emergency room (yay social health care...) after which they said the x-ray section of the hospital was now closed and sent me home with some pain killers that didn't work. I (stupidly) came back and waited 8 hours more in the emergency room and finally, stormed in and demanded pain killers (they injected me with stuff and prescribed laudanum). They did an ultra sound, blood, urine and found nothing... I still have no idea what the **** that was (no stones in my urine either) and that was 2-3 years ago.

Short story, I hate doctors (but love laudanum ;). I took it for a week and I could finally function rather than be curled up on the floor puking every 5 minutes (not a hyperbole). I'm only mentioning this because the first thing I got when I googled "estrogen excess symptoms and low thyroid symptoms" was somebody mentioning kidney stones...!

[....and nobody cares I'm sure ;D...]
 
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Peat's_Girl

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I just took my first 3 drop dose. I guess I feel "euphoric"...
Wait. How does euphoric feel like? Kinda light headed and like the room is spinny...! Feels kinda nice! Is that good or bad? ;D

I'm doing high does for 10 days (3x5 daily), then 3x3 daily for 2 weeks. Then maintenance dose for... indefinitely.

I'll keep posting here for updates, I guess, if anyone's curious.

Note: I don't know if I have estrogen dominance but I suspect I have it as well as low thyroid because I have the majority of the symptoms: tender breasts, premature aging (though my bf claims I'm paranoid), depression, insomnia, irritability, inability to lose weight, cold/ hot sensitivity, loss of appetite, etc.
 
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Peat's_Girl

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Second dose: nausea and a stomach ache. Then a trip to the loo, with a quickened step.

Note I thought of the brilliant idea to mix magnesium citrate into milk... AND I've have consistent diarrhea instead of bowel movements for a few weeks now (since I stopped low carbing). I'm hoping it will pass... I'll reiterate: I'm a mess.
 
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Peat's_Girl

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3d dose: I feel fine. Must've been the magnesium and milk... LEsson learned.

Gonna update less tomorrow, these are just first day impressions.
 

aguilaroja

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Peat's_Girl said:
...I thought of the brilliant idea to mix magnesium citrate into milk... AND I've have consistent diarrhea instead of bowel movements for a few weeks now (since I stopped low carbing). I'm hoping it will pass... I'll reiterate: I'm a mess.

Cease the magnesium citrate if there has been diarrhea. Magnesium citrate is a laxative, and one of the more fast acting ones. Unless you are specifically needing a laxative response, that is not a first choice for form of magnesium supplement, if you are searching for sources in addition to food sources. Many magnesium supplement forms have a laxative effect, and at large enough amounts probably all of them.

From other posts, it seems you are working on basics, so it might be better to go easy on magnesium supplements in the short term and emphasize food sources, unless special magnesium deficiency seems clear.
 
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Peat's_Girl

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It can't be the magnesium. I haven't been taken it. I only took a sip of the concoction (the milk curdled) and already needed to go. I've been getting the big D all week but haven't been taking magnesium.

I think I have a deficiency though, since magnesium is so hard to get on a Primal diet and I can't sleep well.

How do you recommend getting magnesium?
 

Zpol

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Please get help ASAP. .. If you are not menstruating, the walls of your uterus are thickening and this leads to endometriosis and possibly cancer. You most likely have PCOS. And if you do you likely have hypothyriod.
Progesterone should be taken on days 21 thru 28 of your cycle. The dose is dependent on how much you need to balance the estrogen. Also, get on thyroid meds, this ma bring on period by itself.
This is what works for me!
 

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I wonder if eating carbs again might help bring back the menstrual cycle. When I did Paleo a lot of the women complained of functional hypothalamic amenorrhea from a combination of low carb dieting and over training. Just adding carbs back into my life, after discovering Peat's work, solved most of the issues I developed during my paleo daze.
 
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Peat's_Girl

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Zpol said:
Please get help ASAP. .. If you are not menstruating, the walls of your uterus are thickening and this leads to endometriosis and possibly cancer. You most likely have PCOS. And if you do you likely have hypothyriod.
Progesterone should be taken on days 21 thru 28 of your cycle. The dose is dependent on how much you need to balance the estrogen. Also, get on thyroid meds, this ma bring on period by itself.
This is what works for me!

How do I know which days are 21 and 28...? I don't menstruate at all...
And where can I get thryoid medications? I can't afford/ don't want to go to a doctor.
 
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Peat's_Girl

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Blossom said:
I wonder if eating carbs again might help bring back the menstrual cycle. When I did Paleo a lot of the women complained of functional hypothalamic amenorrhea from a combination of low carb dieting and over training. Just adding carbs back into my life, after discovering Peat's work, solved most of the issues I developed during my paleo daze.

I did add carbs... But just gained more weight... Peating just made me break out in acne all over my shoulders and face, made me cry all day and not able to sleep and made me bloated... Plus the thought of eating like this sounds so miserable to me... Maybe I'm just meant to be fat. This doesn't work, Low carbing doesn't work... What else is there?...
 

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Oh dear Peat's girl. I'm sorry your having a rough time. I think many of us that come from a low carb background deal with weight gain initially. I understand that people are mortified about weight gain in our culture and it can be difficult to go through that transition. I'm not even sure I'm a good one to talk about the weight issue because I'm still a work in progress in that area. So are you having regular periods now? I guess if it were me I would focus on restoring metabolic and hormonal health first and let the weight do what it needs to do during that process. Hopefully others will chime in here too! I think sometimes weight gain and acne can happen when our bodies are in the process of healing. BP went through that and has returned to what she feels is an appropriate weight for her. I'm on my phone so I can link but if you search her posts you can see photos and read about how she got her body back in sugar burning mode. Her acne resolved in the process too.
 

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BP's username is actually bigpeatkowski if you'd like to search her posts to read about her experience.
 

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"thebigpeatowski"
 

tara

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Peat's_Girl said:
I did add carbs... But just gained more weight... Peating just made me break out in acne all over my shoulders and face, made me cry all day and not able to sleep and made me bloated... Plus the thought of eating like this sounds so miserable to me... Maybe I'm just meant to be fat. This doesn't work, Low carbing doesn't work... What else is there?...

Sorry you're not having much fun.

Have you spelled out somewhere what your personal version of a Peat diet is lately somewhere? You might get more ideas from people. I think if 'eating like this sounds so miserable', there's a good chance it can be improved, at least so you enjoy it more, and maybe so it works better for you.

If you are not menstruating, I think you can just get a calendar, decide arbitrarily when day one is, create a 28 day cycle, then take progest-e on days 15-28. Or take it every day if intolerable symptoms return when you are not taking the progest-e. (This is what I do - I still menstruate while taking progest-e every day. I've recently reduced from ~5x/diay to ~3 x/day, hoping eventually I can reduce it to just second half of cycle.)

Here's my non-Peaty view. I don't know much about your history, so I don't know if this could apply to you.
I think for some people gaining weight is sometimes more of a reflection of history etc than current habits. For instance, it may not be possible for most people to recover from extended low carb or low calorie dieting without gaining weight. That doesn't mean eating enough carbs and food is a bad idea, it just means the body has some processes in place to deal with the previous situation, and it takes a while to adjust to getting enough carbs/food again. Some of those people will eventually lose some of the new fat, but hopefully not the new protein, bone, myelin, etc, without having to undereat again.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if some people are meant to have a generous amount of fat. What I mean is, their body is going to recover and/or maintain itself best by eating to appetite of nourishing foods, and the body will take in all that nourishment and aim for and then maintain the weight it wants, and for all the people who do eat to appetite, those weights are going to be distributed in such a way that half the people are above the median weight, which happens to lie in a range that has been given a nonsensical (ie non-evidence-based) label as 'over-weight'. Doesn't necessarily mean there is anything actually wrong with anyone's body.
 
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Peat's_Girl

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tara said:
Peat's_Girl said:
I did add carbs... But just gained more weight... Peating just made me break out in acne all over my shoulders and face, made me cry all day and not able to sleep and made me bloated... Plus the thought of eating like this sounds so miserable to me... Maybe I'm just meant to be fat. This doesn't work, Low carbing doesn't work... What else is there?...

Sorry you're not having much fun.

Have you spelled out somewhere what your personal version of a Peat diet is lately somewhere? You might get more ideas from people. I think if 'eating like this sounds so miserable', there's a good chance it can be improved, at least so you enjoy it more, and maybe so it works better for you.

If you are not menstruating, I think you can just get a calendar, decide arbitrarily when day one is, create a 28 day cycle, then take progest-e on days 15-28. Or take it every day if intolerable symptoms return when you are not taking the progest-e. (This is what I do - I still menstruate while taking progest-e every day. I've recently reduced from ~5x/diay to ~3 x/day, hoping eventually I can reduce it to just second half of cycle.)

Here's my non-Peaty view. I don't know much about your history, so I don't know if this could apply to you.
I think for some people gaining weight is sometimes more of a reflection of history etc than current habits. For instance, it may not be possible for most people to recover from extended low carb or low calorie dieting without gaining weight. That doesn't mean eating enough carbs and food is a bad idea, it just means the body has some processes in place to deal with the previous situation, and it takes a while to adjust to getting enough carbs/food again. Some of those people will eventually lose some of the new fat, but hopefully not the new protein, bone, myelin, etc, without having to undereat again.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if some people are meant to have a generous amount of fat. What I mean is, their body is going to recover and/or maintain itself best by eating to appetite of nourishing foods, and the body will take in all that nourishment and aim for and then maintain the weight it wants, and for all the people who do eat to appetite, those weights are going to be distributed in such a way that half the people are above the median weight, which happens to lie in a range that has been given a nonsensical (ie non-evidence-based) label as 'over-weight'. Doesn't necessarily mean there is anything actually wrong with anyone's body.

Hi Tara,

Thank you so much for your reply!

I just got back on the forum and I'm willing to give Peat's another try.
It's a little difficult sometimes because when I read the forum a lot of things still puzzle me
but the posts are fairly old so it's unlikely the OP would be able to reply... Or I'm afraid my questions
would be really stupid...

Like, I still don't entirely know why people here take their temperature/ pulse and what the ideal should be or what it's supposed to tell you about your progress/ diet...

Sometimes I wish Ray Peat was less reclusive and would have a blog where he'd regularly post answers to questions (kinda like Mark Sisson) but that's not his thing, is it?... :)

I know it's all dependant on individual history and goals or disorders, but I guess the kind of mentality I'm used to can be attributed to the kind of diets I prescribed to in the past. "Eat x, don't eat y..." simple steps that are applied to everyone. Right now I feel like I'm swimming in a great big ocean from one lifesaver to the next...

So I wanna ask what supplements to take and what to eat 'exactly' but no one can answer that :)

Anyway, I don't think I can be described as normal or even slightly overweight at this point (unless the standard is an ancient African fertility symbol... ;)
I always weighed more than my peers (denser bones, more muscle mass) but at my "best weight" (not trying hard to maintain but still feeling confident about myself-- err... scratch that, I was never confident :) I was 50lbs lighter than I am now... (I also managed to become a lot thinner than that, but I'm not striving for that anymore... I just want to look and feel healthy).

**I did post some stuff about me in my logger in the journal section, if that interests you at all. I will probably update it while fumbling around and tweaking with Peats**

How much Progest-E did you take when you say 5/day?
A teaspoon? A few drops?
Did you experience any symptoms and did they improve? How long did it take?
Were you using it to produce a cycle? Are you estrogen dominant? What did you attempt to treat?

When I was taking it I felt light headed, emotional and had increased heart beat and hyperventilation which freaked me out. But when I read about it I realised it was a normal side effect of increased progesterone.
The thing that bothered me the most was breaking out (don't need more of that now...)
 

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