Vitamin D stuff (was Random Thoughts: Epistemology...)

Blossom

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Here's the quote I was thinking of: January 2014 newsletter Ray wrote:
Developing a critical attitude toward medicine might be the single most important thing people can do to protect their health.
 

HDD

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Suikerbuik said:
The treatment of MS with vitamin D kept me thinking. Even after carefully rereading his work, I can’t get how it works and even think this is short sighted. I am not no neurlogogist, certainly not, so who am I to degrade this work? And why shouldn’t it work? Although I have my doubts, see further. Although he may even admit himself too, because he uses the words disease suppression himself. Anyway like to be being open-minded on this subject, as long as the stone at the bottom isn’t revealed yet.



For those suffering MS it can be very appealing to see such studies but I hope people will think twice. My advice for people who actually suffer MS, I would to carefully read Peats work. It’s a gem on this subject although not covering the whole story, but that will be clear when reading the work he himself admits that too. Still it’s a true piece of gold!
.

I couldn't agree more.Since being diagnosed with MS almost 26 years ago, I have relied on vitamin D from the sun as part of my health protocol. However, I have had a few exacerbations during times when I was getting vitamin D from the sun. It is very clear to me now that estrogen/progesterone has been a main trigger in this illness. Peat's work is invaluable to me!
 
J

j.

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I think the sun without vitamin A can have bad effects, because it can deplete vitamin A in two ways: 1. Vitamin D increases vitamin A requirements. 2. Red light from the sun increases steroidogenesis, which uses vitamin A.

And if you want to minimize the (bad) effects of UV, for example, if your skin got pink, you can use light therapy, but that also increases steroidogenesis, which again, increases vitamin A requirements. If at the moment you're taking thyroid, that also increases vitamin A requirements.

If you supplement with vitamin E regularly, your liver stores more vitamin A, so you don't need to consume as much, but then you'll also probably have to supplement with vitamin K, as vitamin E depletes vitamin K.
 

Suikerbuik

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For those who need more data to be convinced that vitamin D is right to be questioned. Here a link to a reputable person questioning the truth behind vit.D. What else is in the link, I don't know, just encountered it an hour ago or so.

http://chriskresser.com/surprising-...g-and-how-the-internet-is-rewiring-our-brains

Somewhat dated, and possible some aspects or views are already reviewed. But that's something I don't know of, I don't really follow most of these people although I sometimes read an article about something in particular.
 
J

j.

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From the comments sections, this is very interesting about the differences between vitamin D from the sun and supplements. I wonder if the claims are true and not misleading.

Getting vitamin D from the sun is also better because when you expose your skin to sunshine (or UVB), your skin synthesizes vitamin D3 sulfate. This form of vitamin D is water soluble, unlike oral vitamin D3 supplements, which is unsulfated and fat soluble. The water soluble form can travel freely in your blood stream, whereas the unsulfated form needs LDL as a vehicle of transport. This oral non-sulfated form of vitamin D likely will not provide the same benefits as the vitamin D created in your skin from sun (UVB) exposure, because it cannot be converted to vitamin D sulfate. Furthermore, there are other byproducts produced in the skin that are also beneficial and cannot be obtained via supplementation. D3 can also be difficult to absorb through oral supplementation for some people especially as we age.
 

Suikerbuik

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Here you go.

There’s a lot of new research coming out that is pretty surprising, I think, to many of us who’ve been following this issue for a while, perhaps more surprising to people who’ve been recommending really high levels of vitamin D.
The stimulus for this vitamin D conversation, the most recent one at least, was a new prospective cohort study with over 1.2 million participants, so a pretty big sample size. And this study showed that the lowest mortality or risk of death from all different causes and the lowest rates of cardiovascular disease were observed at vitamin 25D levels between 20 ng/mL and 36 ng/mL.
The earlier justification for the reference range of 30 and above, which is the one we use in the US, was looking at what level of vitamin D led to the maximum suppression of parathyroid hormone, and this was based on looking at parathyroid hormone levels in cross-sectional analysis of large populations, and there is a point where the average parathyroid hormone level bottoms out, but the range is really enormous. There’s tons of variation in these studies. So it’s really difficult to say this level of vitamin D is optimal for suppressing parathyroid hormone in everybody because the variation was so big.
And there’s more, discussion of Vit. A and K. We know Vit. A and K protect against vit. D toxicity. Both of these are very important, but to what extent these are involved in disease? It may be that most of us have enough may not be.. We just don’t know yet and I have no opinion other than being sufficient is the way to go.

And unfortunately, we have no way of knowing whether that’s the case because in these big studies of vitamin D levels, they never measure vitamin A or vitamin K2 status. And there’s even controversy about how to accurately do that, so I don’t think that’s, unfortunately, going to happen anytime soon.
Somewhat on 1,25D as well, but nothing special. One quote:
Actually in this conversation I was having with Chris Masterjohn, one of the things that he brought up is that 25D has been long used as the main marker for vitamin D status, and it’s been assumed that it’s an accurate marker of active vitamin D status, but it turns out it’s possible to have kind of a disconnect between your 25D levels and your 1,25D levels.
one reason why sunlight might be better than supplements is that the body does have some ability to put the breaks on the conversion of ultraviolet light into vitamin D when it’s had enough. So there’s a little bit more of an inherent regulatory mechanism there, whereas when you eat vitamin D in the form of supplements of foods, although there aren’t many foods that have much vitamin D, there isn’t really a regulatory mechanism there.
There are also a lot of other studies that suggest that the incidence of autoimmune diseases is correlated with sunlight and ultraviolet light exposure. It’s been observed for some time that MS flares happen more in the winter than they do in the summer. People are more likely to have MS that are born in northern latitudes without much sun exposure and less likely to have it in equatorial regions. And of course, you could say: Oh, well, we don’t know where the chain of causality lies there. But interestingly enough, when people move from one place to another, they assume the risk of the new place, so that suggests that there is a causal relationship and it’s not just something to do with the genetics of people living at those different latitudes. That said, it is still possible to experience vitamin D toxicity from only sun exposure.
My own addition (wasn't in the previous link or being discussed) :
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/371519
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11165464

There’s definitely a lot more to this story than is typically reported in the media. There’s no doubt that vitamin D is crucial. It affects over 3000 genes. It plays a really important role in a lot of different processes.
 

Suikerbuik

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j. said:
From the comments sections, this is very interesting about the differences between vitamin D from the sun and supplements. I wonder if the claims are true and not misleading.

Getting vitamin D from the sun is also better because when you expose your skin to sunshine (or UVB), your skin synthesizes vitamin D3 sulfate. This form of vitamin D is water soluble, unlike oral vitamin D3 supplements, which is unsulfated and fat soluble. The water soluble form can travel freely in your blood stream, whereas the unsulfated form needs LDL as a vehicle of transport. This oral non-sulfated form of vitamin D likely will not provide the same benefits as the vitamin D created in your skin from sun (UVB) exposure, because it cannot be converted to vitamin D sulfate. Furthermore, there are other byproducts produced in the skin that are also beneficial and cannot be obtained via supplementation. D3 can also be difficult to absorb through oral supplementation for some people especially as we age.

Interesting, I don't know much about D-sulphate. If this is true than the sun >> any kind of suppletion in any case for sure.
 
J

j.

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Suikerbuik said:
And there’s more, discussion of Vit. A and K. We know Vit. A and K protect against vit. D toxicity. Both of these are very important, but to what extent these are involved in disease? It may be that most of us have enough may not be.. We just don’t know yet and I have no opinion other than being sufficient is the way to go.

Most are deficient in all 4 vitamins A, K2, E, and D.

K2 because the diets are low in high K2 foods, such as tongue, liver, pancreas, and whole milk and butter from grassfed ruminants.

E because of consumption of polyunsaturated fats. Polyunsaturated fats use, or in other words, deplete, vitamin E.

A because we are low in vitamin E. Vitamin E lets the body store more vitamin A in the liver and also use it more efficiently. So when you have low E, you have a low level of A in the liver and use it wastefully.

D because we don't get sun exposure, or if we do get it, the body has some mechanisms to block vitamin D production, and since vitamins A and D are used together, it's extremely likely that the body blocks vitamin D production because there's too little A. Also, if the diet is high in PUFAs, sun exposure destroys vitamin E, because fatty acids are released by sun exposure, and that further exacerbates the vitamin A deficiency.

In other words, we are deficient in K2 from not consuming it, and the consumption of polyunsaturated fats lead to a deficiency of all three E, A, and D.
 

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