Fatigue and brain fog with T3/T4 supplementation

Attakai · Jan 8, 2015

I had been eagerly awaiting the arrival of my thyroid supplements(Cynomel and Cynoplus) since shifting my diet toward peat has really helped my health and I'm fairly certain that I am hypothyroid, I thought for sure that starting these supplements would be a huge benefit in my recovery.

However even with the very first dose(3-4mcg) of cynomel with breakfast I felt very "out of it". I had trouble concentrating, felt pretty fatigued and was very unproductive. Throughout the next 4 days I tried different doses, high and low of both the cynomel and cynoplus, all with the same result. I was bored, but felt extremely lazy and unmotivated coupled with brain fog. I spent probably the most unproductive week in a long time doing absolutely nothing.

I'm off it now, and am feeling much better, probably the reason I could even be bothered to write this.
Does anyone have any idea why I reacted this way? I ate 3000+ calories of fruit, cheese, milk, liver, OJ etc
and made sure I had all my minerals covered(magnesium and zinc in particular). My pulse and heart rate didn't change much either (96.8~ on waking 98.0~ mid day and 97.1~ during night avg)

HDD · Jan 8, 2015

Attakai!

Maybe this link to email answers from Ray Peat about supplementing thyroid will help.

http://peatarian.com/peatexchanges#thyroid_hormone

answersfound · Jan 8, 2015

I don't have experience with Cynomel or Cynoplus but Nutri-Pak Raw Bovine Thyroid has been warming me up after adressing my cortisol issues.

NDT didn't work for me until I started using pregnenolone with it, so I believe that is key.

IMO there's no reason NDT shouldn't work for you. Just keep tweaking and give it atleast 6 weeks. Maybe you have been running on stress hormones and the thyroid medication brought them down.

Attakai · Jan 9, 2015

I forgot to mention it, but I've been taking 100mg pregnenolone with my morning dose. You may be right that I'm running off of stress hormones, but I'm about to start a busy week with a new semester at school, so I can't risk going back to that horrible brain fog and fatigue.

tara · Jan 10, 2015

I don't have experience with thyroid supps, but the thought that comes to my mind is cholesterol. Do you know what your total cholesterol levels are?
Peat recommends making sure they are up (IIRC, at least 160?, pref 200, not sure of units) before beginning thyroid supplementation. Cholesterol is needed for producing steroid hormones, including pregnenolone. If it's not there, the thyroid hormones may not have the desired effects, and maybe it could cause more stress?

Attakai · Jan 10, 2015

Last time I checked was in 2013 and my cholesterol total was 183. I'm not sure what it is now, but I don't think it would have changed too drastically.
I tried taking about an 8th of a cynoplus tab last night before bed and I had no bad side-effects. Rather I feel it helped me sleep better(I usually have a very hard time falling asleep). I'll keep experimenting with taking them at night, as being able to fall asleep is as good benefit as any.

tara · Jan 10, 2015

Starting low at 1/8 and only incrementing slowly - eg after 3-4 weeks - is probably the safest way to approach the cynoplus.
The cholesterol may get used up faster as metabolism increases.

kineticz · Apr 21, 2015

Low pregnenolone transfer.

sweetpeat · Jul 31, 2015

kineticz said:
Low pregnenolone transfer.

Kineticz, would you mind elaborating on this? What is it, what causes it, can it be fixed or managed? I'm wondering if it's relevant to my situation.

kineticz · Jul 31, 2015

sweetpeat said:
kineticz said:

Low pregnenolone transfer.

Click to expand...

Kineticz, would you mind elaborating on this? What is it, what causes it, can it be fixed or managed? I'm wondering if it's relevant to my situation.

It might be due to dysfunction of the P450, 5-AR, 3BHSD enzymes, which need zinc and T3 to exert effects, and also due to the condition of the adrenal and liver mitochondria to allow intra-cellular cholesterol entry without being sabotaged by damaged outer membranes from oxidative stress, ROS, and PUFA. Low thyroid promotes adrenal atrophy unless the person is highly motivated and depends on norephiprene in the brain rather than serotonin. Serotonin 'empties' the adrenal reserves while simultaneously reducing mitochondrial respiration, but norephiprene enlarges the adrenals without suffocating them. It is difficult to have lower serotonin than norephiprene during hypothyroidism due to muscle catabolism and possible depression in the prefrontal cortex. Combined with this the vasoconstrictive, low progesterone and low ATP tendencies of the hypothyroid. ATP promotes organ efficiency to provide the nutrients and progesterone attenuates ACTH therefore promoting pregnenolone synthesis.

sweetpeat · Jul 31, 2015

kineticz said:
sweetpeat said:

kineticz said:

Low pregnenolone transfer.

Click to expand...

Kineticz, would you mind elaborating on this? What is it, what causes it, can it be fixed or managed? I'm wondering if it's relevant to my situation.

Click to expand...

It might be due to dysfunction of the P450, 5-AR, 3BHSD enzymes, which need zinc and T3 to exert effects, and also due to the condition of the adrenal and liver mitochondria to allow intra-cellular cholesterol entry without being sabotaged by damaged outer membranes from oxidative stress, ROS, and PUFA. Low thyroid promotes adrenal atrophy unless the person is highly motivated and depends on norephiprene in the brain rather than serotonin. Serotonin 'empties' the adrenal reserves while simultaneously reducing mitochondrial respiration, but norephiprene enlarges the adrenals without suffocating them. It is difficult to have lower serotonin than norephiprene during hypothyroidism due to muscle catabolism and possible depression in the prefrontal cortex. Combined with this the vasoconstrictive, low progesterone and low ATP tendencies of the hypothyroid. ATP promotes organ efficiency to provide the nutrients and progesterone attenuates ACTH therefore promoting pregnenolone synthesis.

So, in a nutshell, I think you saying it would be mainly from hypothyroidism/low metabolism? If so, then I'm not sure it would apply to my situation. If a person's metabolism is good and getting enough zinc, then would this be an issue?

kineticz · Jul 31, 2015

sweetpeat said:
kineticz said:

sweetpeat said:

kineticz said:

Low pregnenolone transfer.

Click to expand...

Kineticz, would you mind elaborating on this? What is it, what causes it, can it be fixed or managed? I'm wondering if it's relevant to my situation.

Click to expand...

It might be due to dysfunction of the P450, 5-AR, 3BHSD enzymes, which need zinc and T3 to exert effects, and also due to the condition of the adrenal and liver mitochondria to allow intra-cellular cholesterol entry without being sabotaged by damaged outer membranes from oxidative stress, ROS, and PUFA. Low thyroid promotes adrenal atrophy unless the person is highly motivated and depends on norephiprene in the brain rather than serotonin. Serotonin 'empties' the adrenal reserves while simultaneously reducing mitochondrial respiration, but norephiprene enlarges the adrenals without suffocating them. It is difficult to have lower serotonin than norephiprene during hypothyroidism due to muscle catabolism and possible depression in the prefrontal cortex. Combined with this the vasoconstrictive, low progesterone and low ATP tendencies of the hypothyroid. ATP promotes organ efficiency to provide the nutrients and progesterone attenuates ACTH therefore promoting pregnenolone synthesis.

Click to expand...

So, in a nutshell, I think you saying it would be mainly from hypothyroidism/low metabolism? If so, then I'm not sure it would apply to my situation. If a person's metabolism is good and getting enough zinc, then would this be an issue?

As pointed out by the thread starter, thyroid hormone can unmask the problem. Remember that hypothyroidism isn't just about T3, metabolism needs pregnenolone for the D1 enzyme and normal but not deficient or excessive cortisol in cells.

It is difficult to answer your question without a history of symptoms and trials.

lexis · Aug 1, 2015

Taking some magnesium and B6 may help.

sweetpeat · Aug 1, 2015

kineticz said:
sweetpeat said:

kineticz said:

sweetpeat said:

kineticz said:

Low pregnenolone transfer.

Click to expand...

Kineticz, would you mind elaborating on this? What is it, what causes it, can it be fixed or managed? I'm wondering if it's relevant to my situation.

Click to expand...

It might be due to dysfunction of the P450, 5-AR, 3BHSD enzymes, which need zinc and T3 to exert effects, and also due to the condition of the adrenal and liver mitochondria to allow intra-cellular cholesterol entry without being sabotaged by damaged outer membranes from oxidative stress, ROS, and PUFA. Low thyroid promotes adrenal atrophy unless the person is highly motivated and depends on norephiprene in the brain rather than serotonin. Serotonin 'empties' the adrenal reserves while simultaneously reducing mitochondrial respiration, but norephiprene enlarges the adrenals without suffocating them. It is difficult to have lower serotonin than norephiprene during hypothyroidism due to muscle catabolism and possible depression in the prefrontal cortex. Combined with this the vasoconstrictive, low progesterone and low ATP tendencies of the hypothyroid. ATP promotes organ efficiency to provide the nutrients and progesterone attenuates ACTH therefore promoting pregnenolone synthesis.

Click to expand...

So, in a nutshell, I think you saying it would be mainly from hypothyroidism/low metabolism? If so, then I'm not sure it would apply to my situation. If a person's metabolism is good and getting enough zinc, then would this be an issue?

Click to expand...

As pointed out by the thread starter, thyroid hormone can unmask the problem. Remember that hypothyroidism isn't just about T3, metabolism needs pregnenolone for the D1 enzyme and normal but not deficient or excessive cortisol in cells.

It is difficult to answer your question without a history of symptoms and trials.

Is there a lab profile for low pregnenolone transfer? Like, would you expect to see mostly low numbers for all hormones? Or do you go mainly by symptoms?

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Fatigue and brain fog with T3/T4 supplementation

Attakai

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HDD

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answersfound

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Attakai

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tara

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Attakai

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tara

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kineticz

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sweetpeat

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kineticz

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sweetpeat

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kineticz

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lexis

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sweetpeat

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