Another Sex Drive Thread - Please Help

Hi people.

I have been trying the RayPeat diet for a few months now. I'm a male, 6ft, 78kg (very skinny looking, but my figure also looks very anabolic - despite the fact i don't work out).

One thing I have noticed, since starting this diet, is how my sex drive has completely hit the shitter. I am starting to believe that perhaps high carb, low fat is not an optimal way for me to live.

Carbs - roughly between 500g - 1000g per day. Mostly dates, oranges, watermelon. I don't eat starch at all. Endotoxins upset hormonal balance, so Ray says.

Protein - between 70-120g per day. I don't tolerate meat, or milk (all the sugar and gelatin in the world doesn't help me with these foods). I get between 40-60g of protein from all the fruits I am eating, and the extra 60g from gelatin. In theory, my protein approach is going to be low tryptophan - another good thing for health/hormones/sex drive/testosterone, apparantly.

Fat - 20g per day (at most). This includes two raw egg yolks, so I know this isn't an issue of lack of cholesterol (to build sex hormones).

Why is my fat low? Because I have bought into the RP hypothesis that restricting fat is going to be better for you (metabolically) in the long run. I mean, I feel fine in myself. I notice that I have more energy on HC, than on HF. But libido is a joke.

What else do I do

I eat my carrot salad EVERY DAY. Without fail. Garnished with salt, coconut oil and apple cider vinegar.

I take zinc at night (20mg). I supplement cacium in the morning, now I have given up dairy (1000mg).

My calories on a day usually hit at least 4,000g. So this isn't an issue with lack of calories.

My sleep architecture is pretty good. I dream; I wake up feeling rested.

Out of desperation, I have even tried stuff like Minocycline as I thought that perhaps this might be some sort of virus that is screwing my immune system over. Minocycline, taken over a period of days, had a moderate mood lifting effect, but did nothing else.



Honestly, I feel like I have the sex drive of a Grandpa. When I was high fat, low/moderate protein, low/moderate carb my libido was a lot better (although, still garbage).

I have read countless studies on the internet about how sugar completely batters your testosterone (you hear it all the time from Mercola, and co), and yet, I have persisted with this diet in the hope that Ray Peat is correct (protein and sugar gets your metabolim going, burns PUFAs, etc).

So, where am I going wrong?

I would look into adding more saturated fat since the ratio of saturated fat to PUFA may be more important than just low PUFAing.

Also make sure you are getting enough copper with that zinc supplementation since they duke it out.

Other people here are more knowledgeable than me, so hopefully they can provide some input.

Others here know so much more than I do and I'm the physical opposite of you as well as female but here's something to consider: I've also been lowering fat and its not going down well. Cravings have mercifully become things of the past for me - the distant past - until now when with a reappearance of pms I've had cravings for thick cream and dried apricots. Which I interpret to be meaningful info if I could decode correctly. I'm thinking they're pointing either to more concentrated less liquid food, and / or saturated fat as the cream is the dominant part of the craving and I have plenty of fresh ripe fruit for the sugar as it is. Reading RP articles I'm wondering if need more cholesterol to protect against stress and the release of stored pufa. Also to lower prolactin - signs are that it's high again. Certainly when I had some cream I felt great again, satisfied again, and better mood. Might be Worth thinking about some of those issues.

Thanks for the replies so far.

I have a theory that the amount of carbs i am eating is just too many. I guess I have obsessed about trying to tick all of the boxes, nutrionally (cronometer). Why do I do this? Because, Peat says himself, that if you are going to raise metabolism (especially, via sugars) - you better have the nutrional backbone to withstand it (that's why he recommends super nutrional foods like meat, milk and OJ). So, by doing that, I am basically ingesting huge amounts of sugar/fructose (at least 1400g of dates per day). Perhaps there is a problem with how my body is trying to utilize all of this sugar? Or, more specifically - fructose? On Danny Roddy's site, he says that your body might struggle to metabolize sugar in the face of excess PUFA, serotonin and estrogen.

If I am in that position though, what do I do about it? It all just seems like too much hard work to be honest. I am seriously considering going back to low carb (where I could at least get erections - even if I did have to get myself going, so to speak).

At the moment, I view the Peat diet as a 'poison to your penis' diet' - if your body is already in a heavily comprimised state to begin with.

My latest update is that I have completely gotten rid of fructose from my diet (those dates would have been laced with that stuff). I'd imagine my triglycerides are probabaly sky high at the moment. So, right now, I am ignoring the endotoxin talk and I am living off rice - morning, lunch and dinner. I will do this for a few days. I want to see if anything improves by replacing fructose (which I don't trust at all) with glucose (via starch). Glucose raises insulin, and in the right circumstances, raises sex hormones, too. It's not processed in the liver like fructose. I mean, if I can't even handle simple fruits like dates, watermelons and oranges - god knows what state my liver must be in. And another reason to stay the hell away from OJ - which would pound the liver all in one go. But great if your liver can handle it. This doesn't mean I would give up completely on fructose. If I can manage glucose intake, and keep my fat low, it means that after a period of time, I could start introducing fructose back in and slowly work my way up.

This is all just theory though, at the moment. I am trying to work out what is wrong here. It may be that carbs are just bad for me, full stop.

actually said:

I would look into adding more saturated fat since the ratio of saturated fat to PUFA may be more important than just low PUFAing.

Also make sure you are getting enough copper with that zinc supplementation since they duke it out.

Other people here are more knowledgeable than me, so hopefully they can provide some input.

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Hmmm. I thought I read somewhere that copper and zinc antagonize eachother? I hear what you are saying though. With all the diets i have plugged into the cronometer over the past few months, I have never come across a diet that is low on copper. Zinc, is always much more of an issue (especially if you don't consume animal products, and you avoid PUFA - so pumkin and watermelon seeds are a big NO). Dates, in sufficient quantities, are surpisingly good in zinc.

sueq said:

Others here know so much more than I do and I'm the physical opposite of you as well as female but here's something to consider: I've also been lowering fat and its not going down well. Cravings have mercifully become things of the past for me - the distant past - until now when with a reappearance of pms I've had cravings for thick cream and dried apricots. Which I interpret to be meaningful info if I could decode correctly. I'm thinking they're pointing either to more concentrated less liquid food, and / or saturated fat as the cream is the dominant part of the craving and I have plenty of fresh ripe fruit for the sugar as it is. Reading RP articles I'm wondering if need more cholesterol to protect against stress and the release of stored pufa. Also to lower prolactin - signs are that it's high again. Certainly when I had some cream I felt great again, satisfied again, and better mood. Might be Worth thinking about some of those issues.

Click to expand...

You could be right. I keep dreaming about blocks of cheese. Boy, am I sick of milk - but cheese, I would go back to cheese in a heartbeat! I guess, this might be about just letting go and to stop obsessing over it. So what if I am not doing 100% high carb, low fat. If I feel better on moderate carb/moderate fat, then that is what i should go with.

Hey dukez,

Can you clarify some things? You say your calories often equal 4,000 grams? That would mean you're eating 16,000 calories? (1g carbs = 4 calories) so this can't be right. Do you mean 4,000 calories?

What is your activity level? If you're a hard core athlete it could have nothing to do with your diet, if you have chronically elevated adrenaline and cortisol from excessive exercise that would be why you have a low libido.

If it's not your activity level, have you been to a dr and had hormone tests? This should be your first priority before experimenting with diet. You could have a number of hormone irregularities that could have nothing to do with diet and knowing your labs is a very helpful diagnostic tool. Get the copies of the results for yourself to get multiple opinions, not all drs interpret the results the same.

Oh... Also realized you didn't list any foods high in magnesium... Arguably the most important mineral. Try eating some liver, shellfish or taking regular epsom salt baths. Trust me, it's not the sugar . I know from experience.

1. It's a "few months" in - you'll have to find what works and then spend a few months on that, before seeing great results. Clearly what you're doing now isnt' working if you have no libido.

2. You're at around 4.5% fat (20 grams of fat from 4000 calories)... far too low. I'd aim for 60-20-20 or 70-15-15 if you're taking very high carbs (at 4000+ calories you'd want to be at higher ratio of carbs). Cheese, some fat via broths, some ice cream and 3 tbs of coconut oil per day, raise up fat grams, maybe protein a bit.

20% would be roughly 80grams of fat per day. 15% would be 60grams. This is minimum I'd say
15% protein would be 150grams protein

Test to see what works, and see below:

3. You have to TRACK and TEST to find what works for you. I think this is the major thing missing from most people on this site, do you keep logs of what and when you eat? Related to the above,

Do you test: pulse, body temp (before and after eating), do you manually log things like bowel movements, general mood, sleep depth and quality etc, and write them down?

Eg if dates dont' agree with you, you're eating 1.4kg of them a day - which would be a pretty decent way to **** yourself up! Bring in more variety.

natedawggh said:

Hey dukez,

Can you clarify some things? You say your calories often equal 4,000 grams? That would mean you're eating 16,000 calories? (1g carbs = 4 calories) so this can't be right. Do you mean 4,000 calories?

What is your activity level? If you're a hard core athlete it could have nothing to do with your diet, if you have chronically elevated adrenaline and cortisol from excessive exercise that would be why you have a low libido.

If it's not your activity level, have you been to a dr and had hormone tests? This should be your first priority before experimenting with diet. You could have a number of hormone irregularities that could have nothing to do with diet and knowing your labs is a very helpful diagnostic tool. Get the copies of the results for yourself to get multiple opinions, not all drs interpret the results the same.

Click to expand...

No problem, yes, I meant 4000 calories.

My activity level shouldn't hurt my hormonal function. I don't work out at all, but my job means that I walk about a bit. So I'm not over exerting any parts of my body. In fact, I don't really tolerate exercise like I used to. Just going for a run can mess me up for days afterwards. Plus I no longer get the runners high, so the very process of it is not even enjoyable to me anymore. I can tolerate weight lifting ok, as long as i don't overdo it - but I don't get the time to do it these days.

I've just booked an appointment to see the Dr, so hopefully this will be the beginning of things that may get revealed to me.

I think I'm ok for magensium. I supplement 500mg of magnesium citrate each evening (along with my zinc, b6 and methylcobalamin). Also, when I was hitting the dates hard, 1400g per day was giving me more than enough magnesium. Even a watermelon per day was giving me at least 50%.

aquaman said:

1. It's a "few months" in - you'll have to find what works and then spend a few months on that, before seeing great results. Clearly what you're doing now isnt' working if you have no libido.

2. You're at around 4.5% fat (20 grams of fat from 4000 calories)... far too low. I'd aim for 60-20-20 or 70-15-15 if you're taking very high carbs (at 4000+ calories you'd want to be at higher ratio of carbs). Cheese, some fat via broths, some ice cream and 3 tbs of coconut oil per day, raise up fat grams, maybe protein a bit.

20% would be roughly 80grams of fat per day. 15% would be 60grams. This is minimum I'd say
15% protein would be 150grams protein

Test to see what works, and see below:

3. You have to TRACK and TEST to find what works for you. I think this is the major thing missing from most people on this site, do you keep logs of what and when you eat? Related to the above,

Do you test: pulse, body temp (before and after eating), do you manually log things like bowel movements, general mood, sleep depth and quality etc, and write them down?

Eg if dates dont' agree with you, you're eating 1.4kg of them a day - which would be a pretty decent way to f*** yourself up! Bring in more variety.

Click to expand...

This is a good point. Tracking what I do is generally done mentally, but, I don't have an encyclopedic brain so i do end up forgetting things. It would make sense to track things properly, I totally agree.

Well, that makes more sense as to why you're frustrated. Try to get as comprehensive a hormone profile from your Dr as you can, and a vitamin/minerals test wouldn't hurt either. I'm sure other readers would love to know your results too since there might be others with similar problems.

I noticed a DHEA supplement increased my libido... Especially depending on your test results, that could probably help you out, and progesterone has even helped out men too, could be worth a try. Talk to your dr and do some Peat reading on those

Pregnenolone does restore sexual function temporarily for me, but, after time, it starts to have the opposite effect. It's probably something I could take every now and again, but limiting it seems prudent in my case.

I've actually managed to restore my sexual function at the moment. I ditched my temorary starch experiment. Starch is very bad for me. It lingers in my body for days. I went back to my tryptophan depleted diet, but this time made sure that there wasn't anything going into my body other than sugar (OJ, dates), gelatin and coconut oil. Initially, when posters advised me that my fat was probably too low, I took their advice and started eating lots of butter with my OJ, dates and gelatin (no cheese, as I wanted to stick with low tryptophan). I got this idea from Danny Roddy's tryptophan restriction experiment, but unfortunately, I noticed nothing but detrimental effects. As soon as I replaced the butter with coconut oil, boom - crazy libido.

So, it seems that perhaps mixing animal fats with sugar, in my case, seems to do more harm than good. Coconut oil seems to have nothing but beneficial effects for me. Wonderful stuff, and a definite keeper. As for this trypto depleted diet, I plan to stick with it. Libido aside, I actually feel a lot better in myself. My chronic dysthymia seems to be receeding, which is very interesting. Obviously, I am drinking a lot of OJ (about 4-6 litres, per day), eating a lot of dates (about 400g - nowhere near as before, though) and gelatin is about 60g per day (about 82g of protein in total).

The diet itself means I am short in b12, zinc, calcium (taken away from zinc), vitamin D and K. I have to supplement with these. Not ideal, but I feel much better on this diet than any other Peat version of the diet I have tried (cooked animal products). Sometimes, if I have enough time to eat it - I'll buy a 2kg watermelon and eat the lot (plug watermelon into cronometer - a wonderful source of nutrition and excellent source of vitamin A - just don't eat the seeds, they are toxic and laced with PUFA).

dukez07 said:

Pregnenolone does restore sexual function temporarily for me, but, after time, it starts to have the opposite effect. It's probably something I could take every now and again, but limiting it seems prudent in my case.

I've actually managed to restore my sexual function at the moment. I ditched my temorary starch experiment. Starch is very bad for me. It lingers in my body for days. I went back to my tryptophan depleted diet, but this time made sure that there wasn't anything going into my body other than sugar (OJ, dates), gelatin and coconut oil. Initially, when posters advised me that my fat was probably too low, I took their advice and started eating lots of butter with my OJ, dates and gelatin (no cheese, as I wanted to stick with low tryptophan). I got this idea from Danny Roddy's tryptophan restriction experiment, but unfortunately, I noticed nothing but detrimental effects. As soon as I replaced the butter with coconut oil, boom - crazy libido.

So, it seems that perhaps mixing animal fats with sugar, in my case, seems to do more harm than good. Coconut oil seems to have nothing but beneficial effects for me. Wonderful stuff, and a definite keeper. As for this trypto depleted diet, I plan to stick with it. Libido aside, I actually feel a lot better in myself. My chronic dysthymia seems to be receeding, which is very interesting. Obviously, I am drinking a lot of OJ (about 4-6 litres, per day), eating a lot of dates (about 400g - nowhere near as before, though) and gelatin is about 60g per day (about 82g of protein in total).

The diet itself means I am short in b12, zinc, calcium (taken away from zinc), vitamin D and K. I have to supplement with these. Not ideal, but I feel much better on this diet than any other Peat version of the diet I have tried (cooked animal products). Sometimes, if I have enough time to eat it - I'll buy a 2kg watermelon and eat the lot (plug watermelon into cronometer - a wonderful source of nutrition and excellent source of vitamin A - just don't eat the seeds, they are toxic and laced with PUFA).

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Glad to here that man

So coconut oil is the secret for your body

So happy that u r feeling better