Should I Go On Trt?

Agent207

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Messages
618
No statement in the video proves me wrong, nor support your affirmation about estrogen/prolactin as special concern. Roddy blames on drugs like finasterde, so do I. The rest just shows unconclusive studies and that AGA remains not understood 100%.

What it seems very likely, is that Its an autocrine issue on the scalp, the dht generated in its own tissue slowly asphyxiates the follicle; and even if this dht is not totally cross-mediated by systemic levels- and this is why 5AR blockers fail that bad-, whats looks clear is that raising them won't help at all, specially in the long run.

Theres too much evidence, on proviron speeding up hairloss on predisposed individuals. Its too a very known antiestrogen and antiprolactin, btw.
 

mujuro

Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2014
Messages
696
Agent207 said:
cantstoppeating said:
Jumping on TRT will accelerate hairloss because of the increase in estrogen and prolactin.
Thats wrong. Im not gonna say estrogen/prolactin won't have a rol on hairloss, but is DHT by far whats gonna worsen hairloss if he's predisposed to it by genetics. In that case both topical calcium channels and DHT blockers may help. But thats another complex topic.

To the OP, this could be derived from neurotransmitter issue, some nutrient imbalance, caused by the lack of an enzyme i.e. can lead to that. I'd not jump on TRT than early; aromatase inhibitors looks a safer way, you could check on exemestane at low doses, like 6,25mg, and see how it goes.

I have a friend who has been on different anabolic steroids for years without break. He has had some hairline recession and thinning for a few years now which sent him into a panic, but it seems to wax and wane. It gets better then gets worse, for no apparent reason. It's curious that when it initially began, his mental state began to change too. He was no longer the happy go lucky guy. He had legitimate worries about his life, where his life was going, and minor problems with the law which seemed to come to a head. By his own admission, when his mood comes good and his life goals are on track, his hair gets better. He is very aware of the hairloss circles, Danny Roddy, Ray Peat, prolactin and E2, role of prostaglandins and the toxicity of Fin... and as far as he can tell the hair loss has no clear or obvious relation to DHT levels. We're talking a gram of testosterone per week - abuse dosages but enough to yield massive amounts of DHT.

Likewise, I've used large amounts of testosterone and found no impact on my hair. My hair is worse now than it ever was using exogenous testosterone, but my life has gone through the sewers for other reasons since then - a lot of unhealthy stress I've inflicted on myself. I also experienced bad hair loss just after I graduates high school, when my then-undiagnosed bipolar went into overdrive. I was put on medication and about a year later my hair was thick and healthy again.
 
OP
J

James_001

Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2015
Messages
235
mujuro said:
post 111531
Agent207 said:
cantstoppeating said:
Jumping on TRT will accelerate hairloss because of the increase in estrogen and prolactin.
Thats wrong. Im not gonna say estrogen/prolactin won't have a rol on hairloss, but is DHT by far whats gonna worsen hairloss if he's predisposed to it by genetics. In that case both topical calcium channels and DHT blockers may help. But thats another complex topic.

To the OP, this could be derived from neurotransmitter issue, some nutrient imbalance, caused by the lack of an enzyme i.e. can lead to that. I'd not jump on TRT than early; aromatase inhibitors looks a safer way, you could check on exemestane at low doses, like 6,25mg, and see how it goes.

I have a friend who has been on different anabolic steroids for years without break. He has had some hairline recession and thinning for a few years now which sent him into a panic, but it seems to wax and wane. It gets better then gets worse, for no apparent reason. It's curious that when it initially began, his mental state began to change too. He was no longer the happy go lucky guy. He had legitimate worries about his life, where his life was going, and minor problems with the law which seemed to come to a head. By his own admission, when his mood comes good and his life goals are on track, his hair gets better. He is very aware of the hairloss circles, Danny Roddy, Ray Peat, prolactin and E2, role of prostaglandins and the toxicity of Fin... and as far as he can tell the hair loss has no clear or obvious relation to DHT levels. We're talking a gram of testosterone per week - abuse dosages but enough to yield massive amounts of DHT.

Likewise, I've used large amounts of testosterone and found no impact on my hair. My hair is worse now than it ever was using exogenous testosterone, but my life has gone through the sewers for other reasons since then - a lot of unhealthy stress I've inflicted on myself. I also experienced bad hair loss just after I graduates high school, when my then-undiagnosed bipolar went into overdrive. I was put on medication and about a year later my hair was thick and healthy again.

Why did you stop taking steroids? thanks
 
Last edited by a moderator:

mujuro

Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2014
Messages
696
James_001 said:
post 111537
mujuro said:
post 111531
Agent207 said:
cantstoppeating said:
Jumping on TRT will accelerate hairloss because of the increase in estrogen and prolactin.
Thats wrong. Im not gonna say estrogen/prolactin won't have a rol on hairloss, but is DHT by far whats gonna worsen hairloss if he's predisposed to it by genetics. In that case both topical calcium channels and DHT blockers may help. But thats another complex topic.

To the OP, this could be derived from neurotransmitter issue, some nutrient imbalance, caused by the lack of an enzyme i.e. can lead to that. I'd not jump on TRT than early; aromatase inhibitors looks a safer way, you could check on exemestane at low doses, like 6,25mg, and see how it goes.

I have a friend who has been on different anabolic steroids for years without break. He has had some hairline recession and thinning for a few years now which sent him into a panic, but it seems to wax and wane. It gets better then gets worse, for no apparent reason. It's curious that when it initially began, his mental state began to change too. He was no longer the happy go lucky guy. He had legitimate worries about his life, where his life was going, and minor problems with the law which seemed to come to a head. By his own admission, when his mood comes good and his life goals are on track, his hair gets better. He is very aware of the hairloss circles, Danny Roddy, Ray Peat, prolactin and E2, role of prostaglandins and the toxicity of Fin... and as far as he can tell the hair loss has no clear or obvious relation to DHT levels. We're talking a gram of testosterone per week - abuse dosages but enough to yield massive amounts of DHT.

Likewise, I've used large amounts of testosterone and found no impact on my hair. My hair is worse now than it ever was using exogenous testosterone, but my life has gone through the sewers for other reasons since then - a lot of unhealthy stress I've inflicted on myself. I also experienced bad hair loss just after I graduates high school, when my then-undiagnosed bipolar went into overdrive. I was put on medication and about a year later my hair was thick and healthy again.

Why did you stop taking steroids? thanks

My attention was drawn elsewhere to other areas of my life and bodybuilding just didn't excite me like it used to.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Agent207

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Messages
618
I think it would be good to know plasma zinc, serum copper, RBC folates and whole blood histamine to see posible nutrient imbalances. A methylation panel would be useful too, talking about depressive disorders since it seems to be close related.
 

slayers

Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
Messages
165
I doubt id start TRT with your levels. I would also wouldn't be opposed to you trying TRT or as other mention an AI first.

Most people I talked to who push TRT down the road then eventually give in and try it almost always wish they would have just started.... Id say only about 10-15% TRT makes them worse or does nothing at all

Almost I know a lot of men who been on TRT then go off and just go back to normal... So it seems worth a try ...
 
OP
J

James_001

Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2015
Messages
235
slayers said:
post 111637 I doubt id start TRT with your levels. I would also wouldn't be opposed to you trying TRT or as other mention an AI first.

Most people I talked to who push TRT down the road then eventually give in and try it almost always wish they would have just started.... Id say only about 10-15% TRT makes them worse or does nothing at all

Almost I know a lot of men who been on TRT then go off and just go back to normal... So it seems worth a try ...

Thanks, I am pretty sure I had normal levels of testosterone a little as one year ago (I had a libido then as opposed to zero libido now), so I guess I would like to see what I can do to get my hormones adjusted naturally before I try trt.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
OP
J

James_001

Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2015
Messages
235
Blood-work, Any suggestions?
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot (5).png
    Screenshot (5).png
    46.3 KB · Views: 395
  • Screenshot (6).png
    Screenshot (6).png
    43.9 KB · Views: 387

Agent207

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Messages
618
Those thyroid numbers looks OK, just the testo is indeed in the low side. I find some values missing, DHT, prolactin, estradiol/estrone, pregnenolone, progesterone and DHEA.

I think knowing about those ones, it could point you to to use either low doses of an AI, or a topical formula like haiduts pansterone with DHEA and pregnenolone. I would avoid TRT and any case it would be the last resort.

Are glycemia/insulin and liver enzimes OK? Vitamin A, more saturated fat like coconut oil and cholesterol from eggs could assist to producing more pregnenolone since your thyroid seems fine. For sleep I would say getting sufficient sunlight, trying moderate weight training (at least 6 hours appart from sleep), some P5P before noon, and zinc/magnesium at night.
 

YuraCZ

Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
674
Agent207 said:
post 111731 Those thyroid numbers looks OK, just the testo is indeed in the low side. I find some values missing, DHT, prolactin, estradiol/estrone, pregnenolone, progesterone and DHEA.

I think knowing about those ones, it could point you to to use either low doses of an AI, or a topical formula like haiduts pansterone with DHEA and pregnenolone. I would avoid TRT and any case it would be the last resort.

Are insulin response and liver enzimes OK? Vitamin A, more saturated fat like coconut oil and cholesterol from eggs could assist to producing more pregnenolone since your thyroid seems fine. Some P5P before noon, zinc at night; also I would try some moderate strength training and getting sufficient sunlight.
+ keep copper under 2mg per day. This gives a chance to his liver detox excess.. So no gelatin, beef liver, chocolate etc.. This foods have just way too much copper. With zinc, p5p and MSM it will be very uncomfortable for a while, but it's worth it..
 
Last edited by a moderator:
D

Derek

Guest
YuraCZ said:
post 111736
Agent207 said:
post 111731 Those thyroid numbers looks OK, just the testo is indeed in the low side. I find some values missing, DHT, prolactin, estradiol/estrone, pregnenolone, progesterone and DHEA.

I think knowing about those ones, it could point you to to use either low doses of an AI, or a topical formula like haiduts pansterone with DHEA and pregnenolone. I would avoid TRT and any case it would be the last resort.

Are insulin response and liver enzimes OK? Vitamin A, more saturated fat like coconut oil and cholesterol from eggs could assist to producing more pregnenolone since your thyroid seems fine. Some P5P before noon, zinc at night; also I would try some moderate strength training and getting sufficient sunlight.
+ keep copper under 2mg per day. This gives a chance to his liver detox excess.. So no gelatin, beef liver, chocolate etc.. This foods have just way too much copper. With zinc, p5p and MSM it will be very uncomfortable for a while, but it's worth it..

Are you now doing better with this high zinc:low copper protocol? I remember you posting you were having a hard time with it?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

YuraCZ

Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
674
Derek said:
post 111757
YuraCZ said:
post 111736
Agent207 said:
post 111731 Those thyroid numbers looks OK, just the testo is indeed in the low side. I find some values missing, DHT, prolactin, estradiol/estrone, pregnenolone, progesterone and DHEA.

I think knowing about those ones, it could point you to to use either low doses of an AI, or a topical formula like haiduts pansterone with DHEA and pregnenolone. I would avoid TRT and any case it would be the last resort.

Are insulin response and liver enzimes OK? Vitamin A, more saturated fat like coconut oil and cholesterol from eggs could assist to producing more pregnenolone since your thyroid seems fine. Some P5P before noon, zinc at night; also I would try some moderate strength training and getting sufficient sunlight.
+ keep copper under 2mg per day. This gives a chance to his liver detox excess.. So no gelatin, beef liver, chocolate etc.. This foods have just way too much copper. With zinc, p5p and MSM it will be very uncomfortable for a while, but it's worth it..

Are you now doing better with this high zinc:low copper protocol? I remember you posting you were having a hard time with it?
It is still too early see results. I'm still in "it gets worse before it will be better.." phase. Major bad symptoms are fatigue, digestion, racing mind, low BP.. But I notice thickening of beard. :) That's all for now...

[moderator edit: part of the discussion about copper moved post 111741]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
OP
J

James_001

Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2015
Messages
235
Agent207 said:
post 111731 Those thyroid numbers looks OK, just the testo is indeed in the low side. I find some values missing, DHT, prolactin, estradiol/estrone, pregnenolone, progesterone and DHEA.

I think knowing about those ones, it could point you to to use either low doses of an AI, or a topical formula like haiduts pansterone with DHEA and pregnenolone. I would avoid TRT and any case it would be the last resort.

Are glycemia/insulin and liver enzimes OK? Vitamin A, more saturated fat like coconut oil and cholesterol from eggs could assist to producing more pregnenolone since your thyroid seems fine. For sleep I would say getting sufficient sunlight, trying moderate weight training (at least 6 hours appart from sleep), some P5P before noon, and zinc/magnesium at night.

Thanks,

The prolactin value is there though.

I have tried the pansterone and noticed nothing, I also took low dose of adex for one week and felt nothing (just noticed my erections were softer- low estrogen?).

Not sure about the other values, weight training wipes me out right now. I will try to get more light during the day any suggestions for the supplements (brands?).

Thanks

@franko

Any advice? Also, What is your diet like?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Joined
Nov 11, 2014
Messages
585
Agent207 said:
post 111520 No statement in the video proves me wrong, nor support your affirmation about estrogen/prolactin as special concern. Roddy blames on drugs like finasterde, so do I. The rest just shows unconclusive studies and that AGA remains not understood 100%.

What it seems very likely, is that Its an autocrine issue on the scalp, the dht generated in its own tissue slowly asphyxiates the follicle; and even if this dht is not totally cross-mediated by systemic levels- and this is why 5AR blockers fail that bad-, whats looks clear is that raising them won't help at all, specially in the long run.

Theres too much evidence, on proviron speeding up hairloss on predisposed individuals. Its too a very known antiestrogen and antiprolactin, btw.

It's the first video of a 4 part series. I suggest you go through all 4 videos.

Even if local levels of DHT are to blame the route isn't to block DHT levels systemically or to not raise low-levels of DHT systemically. The solution is to correct the underlying mechanisms that give rise to the downstream effects of local DHT and if anything it's to fix the low metabolism and all its consequences -- it's no surprise that balding occurs as an age related symptom.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
OP
J

James_001

Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2015
Messages
235
James_001 said:
Agent207 said:
post 111731 Those thyroid numbers looks OK, just the testo is indeed in the low side. I find some values missing, DHT, prolactin, estradiol/estrone, pregnenolone, progesterone and DHEA.

I think knowing about those ones, it could point you to to use either low doses of an AI, or a topical formula like haiduts pansterone with DHEA and pregnenolone. I would avoid TRT and any case it would be the last resort.

Are glycemia/insulin and liver enzimes OK? Vitamin A, more saturated fat like coconut oil and cholesterol from eggs could assist to producing more pregnenolone since your thyroid seems fine. For sleep I would say getting sufficient sunlight, trying moderate weight training (at least 6 hours appart from sleep), some P5P before noon, and zinc/magnesium at night.

Thanks,

The prolactin value is there though.

I have tried the pansterone and noticed nothing, I also took low dose of adex for one week and felt nothing (just noticed my erections were softer- low estrogen?).

Not sure about the other values, weight training wipes me out right now. I will try to get more light during the day any suggestions for the supplements (brands?).

Thanks

@franko

Any advice? Also, What is your diet like?

I can't take it anymore, starting trt next week. Wish me luck
 
Last edited by a moderator:

skycop00

Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2015
Messages
428
Location
Florida
I can't take it anymore, starting trt next week. Wish me luck
Good luck. Key is a knowledgeable practitioner. After 12 years on TRT, I am going to come off and try a restart at 52 years old. Done a lot if work preparing....3 weeks to start.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom