Aspirin I thought it was toxic

Pennikins

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I'm very torn on the aspirin issue.

I was always under the impression that Aspirin - aka salicylic acid became accumulative in the liver and hence could cause irreparable liver problems.

When you do searches on Aspirin poisoning it sounds very serious.

As an aromatherapist we are cautioned about the use of Salicylates in massage oils and in fact special labeling is required to sell these items because of regulations enforced by the Consumer Product Safety commission.

Reading many posts, folks seem to be taking some awful dangerous levels of aspirin.

Help me understand why taking aspirin is safe?
 
J

j.

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It has its risks. You have to have good vitamin k status to take it. It's used to minimize the damage of polyunsaturated fats. If we didn't consume PUFA, aspirin wouldn't be very useful.
 
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Pennikins

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So if you don't eat much PUFA's you really won't need aspirin regimen?
How about if you are Type 2 Diabetic? I thought there was some correlation between Coffee, aspirin and glucose or am I wrong here?

Other than the tiny amounts of PUFA's found in the foods I eat, I don't get much PUFA since slowing switching to this WOE.

The main source of fats in my daily diet come from eggs(1 or 2 a day), Coconut oil (used to fry the eggs) and Butter. Of course there is fat in the milk & cheeses and in the other meats I might eat, but that's it.

Of course, prior to the month of March 2014, I enjoyed fried chicken wings a couple times a week. But not since the first of March. I cut those out.

I have been taking Life Extension Super K with Advanced K2 Complex for several months - as I learned it helps the correct distribution of calcium in the body.
K1 is the clotting factor Vit K.
Vit K2 is helps to work with calcium and Vit D.
 

Mittir

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Aspirin is toxic to " Aspirin Intolerant" people, many of them
are also intolerant to other NSAIDS.
Aspirin desensitization is one of the cure for Aspirin Intolerance.
Aspirin therapy is recommended by many cardiologists.
They often send their patient for Aspirin challenge test
before they decide on the dose.
Wikipedia has a very informative page on Aspirin.
You can also read RP's article on Aspirin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspirin
http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/aspir ... ncer.shtml
 
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Pennikins

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Mittir,
Thank you for your VERY helpful information!

I read both of those articles and it explained a lot. I'm not so afraid of taking aspirin, except I know it upsets my stomach if not taken with food.

I wonder if the Absorption through the skin would be okay. I have more questions but not sure where to ask.

We know that Sweet Birch and Wintergreen are 98% methyl salicylate that they can be absorbed through the skin. In the body it is broken down into methyl and salicylic acid so . . . (I don't know if the methyl part is the most toxic or the salicylic acid part that we are warned about when using in massage).

I wonder if the salicylate is the 'protective' factor or if it is the acetyl part of acetylsalicylic acid (aspirin chemical name) when the body metabolizes it, that is the benefactor?

Any idea?
 

Mittir

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I do not know about toxicity of wintergreen.
Here is a quote from his Aspirin article:
Although the animal studies that showed stomach damage from aspirin often used single doses equivalent to 10 or 100 aspirin tablets, the slight irritation produced by a normal dose of aspirin can be minimized by dissolving the aspirin in water. The stomach develops a tolerance for aspirin over a period of a few days, allowing the dose to be increased if necessary. And both aspirin and salicylic acid can be absorbed through the skin, so rheumatic problems have been treated by adding the drug to bath water.
http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/aspir ... ncer.shtml
Acetic acid has health benefits but the purpose of using Aspirin is to get salicylic acid.
I remember reading several studies on transdermal absorption rate of Aspirin .
I vaguely remember it was around 15-20 percent.
Aspirin do have other side effects besides stomach ulcer.
It can increase bleeding tendencies. It would be a good idea to
read up on all the possible side effects of Aspirin if you choose to
use high dose. RP also recommends slow increase in dose.
In one interview he said 1 mg of vitamin K for 325 mg of Aspirin is good.
The need for vitamin K to balance Aspirin varies with individual health.
 

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haidut

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Just wanted to add quickly that aspirin does a LOT more than protect from PUFA. It is one of nature's most potent electron withdrawing groups (EWG) and as such it has dramatic effect on oxidative metabolism. Other substances with strong EWG properties are CO2, CoQ10, vitamin K2 (menatetrenone), oxygen, etc. It just so happens these are all Peat-recommended substances, and most of the other things that Peat recommends are powerful EWG. That is not by accident as they all stimulate respiration and help break the vicious glycolysis cycle.
So, I'd take aspirin even if I am devoid of PUFA. It's just that the dosage will be a lot smaller.
 
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Pennikins

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haidut,
Thank you for the input.
So with me being Type 2 Diabetic, taking aspirin would/should be a good thing, correct?

Especially since diabetics (type 2) seem to need more of the above things aspirin can 'help' with.

~Penny
 
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j.

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Penny, if you take aspirin, Peat advises to also take K2. It's a good thing that apparently K2 is also good for diabetics. It's good for the pancreas.
 
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Pennikins

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According to Wiki, there's good evidence people synthetise salicyclic acid themselves in vivo from benzoic acid; vegetarians have higher levels.

Salicylic Acid sans Aspirin in Animals and Man: Persistence in Fasting and Biosynthesis from Benzoic Acid
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2800778/[/quote]

Thank you for more information.

I still have to do some research on the absorption through the skin. If I find that Sweet Birch or Wintergreen oil can produce the same results, I may opt for that route instead of 'eating' aspirin. But I will need to do research first.

Just want to make sure that Methyl Salicylate would still have the same effects as acetylsalicylic acid.
If I find out I'll let folks know.
 

Mittir

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Pennikins said:
Especially since diabetics (type 2) seem to need more of the above things aspirin can 'help' with.

~Penny

RP recommends Aspirin and or Niacinamide to lower free fatty acids.
Diabetics are known to have high FFA. If you can not tolerate aspirin for
some reason, you can try Niacinamide. RP recommends 100 mg twice a day with carbohydrate.
Since Niacinamide and Aspirin lower energy supply from fat and diabetics mostly use fat for energy, it is important to have steady supply of carbohydrate, preferably sugar for energy.
Otherwise you may hypoglycemia. Low blood sugar can cause many problems
by increasing stress hormones. In my experience, Niacinamide has been very beneficial.
It would be a good idea to consult with your doctor before you try these supplements.
 
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Pennikins

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UPDATE: on I still have to do some research on the absorption through the skin. If I find that Sweet Birch or Wintergreen oil can produce the same results, I may opt for that route instead of 'eating' aspirin. But I will need to do research first.

Just want to make sure that Methyl Salicylate would still have the same effects as acetylsalicylic acid.
If I find out I'll let folks know.
FINDINGS:
NOPE cannot substitute Wintergreen or Sweet Birch oils for Good ol' Aspirin.

Both of those oils contain 98% methyl salicylate that metabolizes/ breaks down in the body as Methanol and Salicylic acid.
Salicylic acid isn't the biggest problem but the Methanol is Highly toxic according to Wikipedia as it changes form in the body to formic acid then formaldehyde and well, we all know that is nasty.

~ Penny
 

haidut

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Pennikins said:
haidut,
Thank you for the input.
So with me being Type 2 Diabetic, taking aspirin would/should be a good thing, correct?

Especially since diabetics (type 2) seem to need more of the above things aspirin can 'help' with.

~Penny

Yep, aspirin and K2 just like j. mentioned as well. I found out that using Alka-Seltzer helps even people with ulcer tolerate aspirin pretty well. It gives you sodium acetylsalycylate which absorbs a lot better than normal aspirin and the baking soda also protects the stomach. About 5mg daily of K2 is all you need to offset any potential bleeding side effects.
 
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Pennikins

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Just to clarify. Vitamin K1 is what helps the clotting factor, not Vitamin K2.

Vitamin K2 helps the body assimilate the use of Calcium with Vitamin D and other factors.

Many folks on here (me included) Take a product by Life Extension called Super K2 - It has both Vit K1 and Vit K2 (both variations of Vit K 2 (Mk4 & Mk7).

So please don't get Vitamin K1 confused with the Product by Life Extension Super K2.

You'll need Vitamin K1 to prevent bleeding if you take aspirin on a regular basis.

~Penny
 
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j.

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Vitamin K2 I think is the one that supposedly helps with diabetes. I thought both K1 and K2 protected from aspirin.
 

haidut

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Pennikins said:
Just to clarify. Vitamin K1 is what helps the clotting factor, not Vitamin K2.

Vitamin K2 helps the body assimilate the use of Calcium with Vitamin D and other factors.

Many folks on here (me included) Take a product by Life Extension called Super K2 - It has both Vit K1 and Vit K2 (both variations of Vit K 2 (Mk4 & Mk7).

So please don't get Vitamin K1 confused with the Product by Life Extension Super K2.

You'll need Vitamin K1 to prevent bleeding if you take aspirin on a regular basis.

~Penny


Vitamin K2 does protect from aspirin bleeding as well. In fact, your body synthesizes K2 from K1 since K2 is the form that is used by the body. At least that's what I have read:): However, K1 tends to be cheaper and is available in much higher quantities (in green vegetables like spinach and kale) than K2 in animal fats. To get 1mg of K2 you'd have to eat 1kg of duck liver patte. In contrast, I think 200g of raw kale has 1mg (1000mcg) of K1.
Anyways, use whatever is available to you. Either form should be helpful as Ray has said in the past.
 

Mittir

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Pennikins said:
Just to clarify. Vitamin K1 is what helps the clotting factor, not Vitamin K2.

Vitamin K2 helps the body assimilate the use of Calcium with Vitamin D and other factors.

~Penny

Do you have any scientific study or an academic source for that information?
 

dukez07

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haidut said:
Other substances with strong EWG properties are CO2, CoQ10, vitamin K2 (menatetrenone), oxygen, etc.

Ubiquinol and idebenone are similar to CoQ10; On paper they are supposed to be far more powerful, so I wonder if they would have greater effects. AFAIK, CoQ10 can also have negative effects in the absense of o2 (free radicals).
 
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