Progesterone vs. DHEA

kineticz

Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
496
Age
35
Location
West Midlands, GB
lookingforanswers said:
kineticz said:
lookingforanswers said:
kineticz said:
Besides, this is where I disagree with Ray. It IS possible to overdo pregnenolone. He is anti-ACTH, but if you take too much pregnenolone, you will downregulate it, and feel depersonalised. I see forum members reporting this time and time again.

ACTH is a key stimulator of pregnenolone and therefore mood. Most pregnenolone mitochondria are in the adrenal cortex.

It is better to have high ACTH and low thyroid than low thyroid and low ACTH. He needs to warn people of this disclaimer.

Another theory is that pregnenolone is shown to stimulate a 5-Alpha reductase enzyme in the liver, and also a benzo type reaction. If this boosts internal pregnenolone, it will tell the adrenals that a stress response is not required, and still downregulate ACTH, leading to increased TRH and prolactin in it's attempt to invigorate adrenal enzymes and sustain energy production.

Okay can you elaborate on the purpose of bio lipid matrix versions of pregnenolone. Ray has said its a waste of money.is it superior to standard oral?

Where does Ray say this about lipid matrix?

Transdermal is the safest option to try pregnenolone.

Standard oral will immediately spike pregnenolone and activates some enzymes in the liver that may or may not be desirable. Pituitary is very sensitive to spiking.

Lipid matrix is very safe but very expensive and I needed high doses to feel good.

"Pregnenolone is a lipid, only pharmaceutical salesmen talk about the need for a lipid matrix. Most people don't have allergic reactions to the rice and magnesium stearate. "

Micronized I suppose it the important part missing. This micronized lipid matrix is said to bypass liver interference.
 

marsaday

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
481
I've had the same reaction to using pregnenalone as LFAnswers.

I initially tried 50mcgs in summer 2013 and after a few days I didn't notice much, so i upped to 100mcg and it was the missing link in my thyroid journey. I took it for 2 weeks approx at 100 per day and then the positive effect wore off.

Over time i used it less and less and it worked sometimes and on other times it didnt do much. It did make a big difference to my health overall however, but finding out what amount to take was tricky.

I have the lipid matrix stuff and i cant say it is any different to normal.

I still havent come back to preg and this winter i have been slightly off again with my health.

I am currently using progesterone and DHEA and these are really making a positive difference (much like when i used pregnenalone in 2013). This time i am using small doses. I am settling on 10mcg prog every other day and 25mcg DHEA every other day. So far i am doing well.

Now i wonder if maybe i should have also tried pregnenalone in smaller doses rather than the bigger ones - say 10mcg per day. I have heard preg works in a big dose or a small dose and in between is not so good.

Using the prog and DHEA i have also reduced down the T4 to 100 and stopped the small dose of T3.
 

kineticz

Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
496
Age
35
Location
West Midlands, GB
I'm glad my advice helped you.

You're experienced with thyroid modulation and the adrenal hormones are sparing your exhausted LDL.

None of you seem to have tried transdermal. That has the most immediate effect.

The key with preg is whether you are aiming to replace, or top up.
 

Peata

Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
3,402
kineticz said:
Peata said:
kineticz said:
Dean said:
ok, kineticz...thanks.

I'm the same and have to be very careful with pregnenolone, in fact I'm avoiding it for now, as it can make improving energy take many steps forward or in my case many steps backward. It causes a glut in the metabolic pathways that is difficult to iron out especially if the body increases fatty acids to try and compensate for a reduction in adrenal activity.

All the best
Dan

You seem to know a lot about cortisol and pregnenolone. May I have your opinion on something? I had a post on here last spring about taking preg and feeling lightheaded, weak muscled, feeling of pressure in abdomen, increased thumping feeling of pulse, and just overall feeling bad. This came on especially strong with eating, which I assume had something to do with stimulating a metabolism that wasn't ready. I was wondering if you think it increased my cortisol too much.

I have PCOS which is a condition related to too much cortisol, btw. I also feel like crap when I have taken prednisone, where most people seem to report feeling great.

Hi Peata.

The symptoms sound like increased TRH and adrenal suppression. It could also be excess cortisol but excess cortisol usually makes you more prone to anxiety and general nervousness, rather than weak muscles etc.

When I was at the end of abusing my pregnenolone supplements, I felt nauseous, weak muscled, light headed, increased blood pressure, panic attacks, etc.

What form of pregnenolone did you take and what dose, how long?

When dealing with pregnenolone, we have to remember that besides cortisol the only other hormones that increase with metabolism are androgens. So if for some reason you are not built to accept increased androgens, the cortisol to dhea ratio will rise in favour of catabolism, and then you end up worse than you started with ACTH negative feedback.

In PCOS, hyperandrogenism in the ovaries is a problem according to some reading on Google just now. I didn't know you were female, so this adds up to a problem with adding pregnenolone in a body that has a disease that tips the balance as a form of protection.

It's all about excesses, deficiencies, protection mechanisms, feedback mechanisms, receptor density/sensitivity, enzyme deficiencies, glandular defects, any of these can and will make pregnenolone, the master hormone, difficult to implement without due care.

Thanks for the reply, a lot to think about. I was just curious about how it affected me. I don't plan to use pregnenolone again. I had to stay in bed for about a week the first time I took it due to all the bad symptoms which felt similar to SSRI withdrawal. I've since read that some of the bad symptoms from SSRI withdrawal have to do with cortisol. I had a post last year about how the pregnenolone made me feel, and there was someone else who wrote and said they went through a similar thing from it. After I recovered from pregn, I tried it again a few times in smaller doses in case my initial high doses were the problem, but after being on it a couple days of small doses, the symptoms came back so I swore it off. Thank goodness my body got itself straightened out.

The weird thing was, some of the effects seemed to come back now and then though not as strong, but they'd come particularly if I hadn't eaten enough and then started eating certain foods (especially protein like greek yogurt). What seemed to cure it was when I finally started eating enough earlier in the day, but especially getting plenty of protein during the day. After a while on 120+ grams protein (with adequate carbs of course), the symptoms seemed to go away and I have rarely felt them since starting high protein. Now I can eat less protein (still in the Ray recommended amount of 80+ g.) and I'm fine.
 

kineticz

Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
496
Age
35
Location
West Midlands, GB
I think the symptoms coming back are the liberation of fatty acids interfering with thyroid and respiration, combined with downregulated ACTH. Prolactin has a large part to play in it.
 

marsaday

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
481
I have tried pregnenalone cream today, just to see what it feels like. Well one dose is 15mcg and i have to say it does not make me feel good like progesterone does. It is 10.40am and i applied it at 7am and really i dont feel that good. I have slight stomach distension, my breathing is not as deep and i feel lower in energy and my head is more cloudy. It isnt terrible, but these are the symptoms i get when unwell.

So really i need to continue with my progesterone cream on a dose of about 5mcg because this seems to really help the overall health. I am also aiming to see how 25mcg DHEA works out every 5 days because i want to only take a small dose of this as well.

So it seems that preg is maybe shutting off the ACTH signal, but prog is not and this ties in with what kineticz is saying.

I will update later today with any developments in how i feel.
 

marsaday

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
481
Had a bad day today. Felt tired in the afternoon and had to sleep. So the pregnenalone even in a small dose shuts me down.
 

natedawggh

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
649
j. said:
Peat thinks progesterone is a safe supplement. I wonder though if it could have bad effects by antagonizing DHEA. Peat mentioned that he cured moles using DHEA, so why couldn't progesterone make moles appear by antagonizing DHEA?

Yes, Men shouldn't really use Progesterone, though it can be lifesaving if one suffers from serious illnesses like cancer or brain problems (or if the downside of temporarily low T is worthy the benefits you'd get from the healing properties of Progesterone). in the Risk/benefit evaluation Progesterone for men is not as effective as raising Testosterone and lowering Estrogen, because Progesterone will lower T and if there is an underlying condition such as diet or alcohol use or liver disease, then estrogen will not be opposed well enough for the lack of Testosterone.

I find using Pregnenolone to be very beneficial, since my body can do with it as it pleases. I also use vitamin E rectally to combat the conversion of Estrogen from Testosterone in the testes, because I have a condition called varicocele. Taking high amounts of zinc has IMMENSELY improved my testosterone and having a diet high in Glycine, Taurine, and the other good amino acids has had more benefit on cosmetic changes to stretch marks, scars, moles, etc. that I have as well as losing a great deal of unwanted fat weight.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
How do I get my libido back after using progest e? I Was only taking a couple drops a day and I stopped 3 days ago. I'm not worried because I've lost it from progest and it eventually came back. But I don't remember how long or what I did

I'm a 25 year old male
 

charlie

Admin
The Law & Order Admin
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
14,363
Location
USA
natedawggh said:
Taking high amounts of zinc has IMMENSELY improved my testosterone and having a diet high in Glycine, Taurine, and the other good amino acids has had more benefit on cosmetic changes to stretch marks, scars, moles, etc. that I have as well as losing a great deal of unwanted fat weight.

How high?
 

natedawggh

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
649
JRMoney15 said:
How do I get my libido back after using progest e? I Was only taking a couple drops a day and I stopped 3 days ago. I'm not worried because I've lost it from progest and it eventually came back. But I don't remember how long or what I did

I'm a 25 year old male

Take Zinc! It will instantly start spurring your body to make more Testosterone. I took progesterone for about a year and within three days I had gotten all my libido back and seen an increase in my genitals size and began to slim down even more. The addition of glycine will also help your body produce plenty of T and reduce estrogen. I also use natural vitamin E rectally, which dramatically lowers Estrogen conversion while it's in your system (I do this once a day, but you have to take vitamin K if you do this as well). Amino acid ratio is more important for overall health than anything else. A good rule of thumb is that if your balls are hanging low you're producing T, and if they're tight and close you're probably converting to Estrogen.

I also get a great deal of benefit from Pregnenlone. My body seems to love it because it can make it into whatever it needs, and I experience an increase in muscle size and tone just from using it. I also take lots of niacinamide regularly, as well as a little Taurine and Lysine.
 

marsaday

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
481
I think men can take progesterone, but in small amounts. It is helpful for me.

I hope to get my testosterone checked again to see the effect progesterone is having. I dont notice any negative effects yet, so hopefully all is well.
 

kineticz

Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
496
Age
35
Location
West Midlands, GB
marsaday said:
I think men can take progesterone, but in small amounts. It is helpful for me.

I hope to get my testosterone checked again to see the effect progesterone is having. I dont notice any negative effects yet, so hopefully all is well.

Remember your FSH is also very high and this can draw pregnenolone away from the adrenals, so further adrenal will numb a weak adrenal share of the pregnenolone.

If you feel bad on preg the easy way to improve should be more T3.

As you're on good thyroid doses you should be able to accept pregnenolone in low doses, so something else is at work imo.

I don't recall you taking measures to increase your mitochondrial respiration by reducing fatty acids and serotonin. This will be blocking your preg entry to do it's work, meaning it will linger in the blood and downregulate adrenal signals. Thyroid can promote the release of serotonin from muscle if carbs are low.
 

Brian

Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2014
Messages
505
natedawggh said:
I take between 100-200 mg a day. It's really really helpful.

What type of zinc are you taking in these high quantities? Do you also supplement copper?
 

natedawggh

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
649
Zinc Glycinate. Don't use brands with soy lecithin or silica, as both are allergens/toxic. I do supplement copper as well, and I take them separately from each other.
 

answersfound

Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
991
Age
31
natedawggh said:
Zinc Glycinate. Don't use brands with soy lecithin or silica, as both are allergens/toxic. I do supplement copper as well, and I take them separately from each other.

Shouldn't magnesium stearate be avoided as well?
 

tara

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
10,368
lookingforanswers said:
natedawggh said:
Zinc Glycinate. Don't use brands with soy lecithin or silica, as both are allergens/toxic. I do supplement copper as well, and I take them separately from each other.

Shouldn't magnesium stearate be avoided as well?
I was under the impression that magnesium stearate itself, if it is not significantly contaminated with something else, was fairly benign compared with several other excipients? Is contamination thought to be common?
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom