EstroBan - Liquid Vitamin (K, A, D, E) Mix

Would you buy custom, liquid suplement with the 4 fat-soluble vitamins (K2, A, D, E)?

  • No

    Votes: 14 3.7%
  • Only if it costs less than $50 for 30 days supply

    Votes: 36 9.5%
  • Only if it costs less than $40 for 30 days supply

    Votes: 31 8.2%
  • Only if it costs less than $30 for 30 days supply

    Votes: 105 27.8%
  • Only if it costs less than $20 for 30 days supply

    Votes: 111 29.4%
  • Only if it costs less than $10 for 30 days supply

    Votes: 81 21.4%

  • Total voters
    378
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haidut

haidut

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scarlettsmum said:
post 105257
haidut said:
post 105244
scarlettsmum said:
post 105221 Haidut, can I give my 5 year old daughter who is mildly autistic estroban? She has mostly high anxiety and fear so i am wondering if the fat soluble vitamins might calm her down and block some substances that cause these unnecessary anxieties? What would be the correct daily dosage? thanks!

I would ask a doctor first before giving to children. The product is safe for children but I don't know what doses would be appropriate. For autism, an antiserotonin drugs like cyproheptadine, mirtazapine, ketanserin are much more likely to help. Have you looked into that?

I don't feel comfortable/am scared giving her drugs that could have potential side effects. I just don't know enough about it. Obviously we all grew up with only doctors prescribing things for us and I just don't feel comfortable making her into a guinea pig. I wish I had the confidence though....:) I used to give her clo on stupid wapf diet so she was getting both a and d vitamins at least. Also she has never been vaccinated, no gut issues, so i'd like to think her autism could be easily corrected with the right approach. Has anybody tried these drugs here successfully treating children with autism, for us the biggest problem at the moment is anxiety and the occasional irrational fear. Funnily enough I also struggle/-d with anxiety, so she must have been lucky enough to inherit my gut flora along with that "evil" serotonin.

Google "cyproheptadine autism" and "serotonin autism". You can show your doctor the studies with cyproheptadine that you find. I doubt he will have a problem with them as cyproheptadine was an anti-allergy drug developed specifically for children and in many countries it is still the primary allergy drug for children. Some take it for decades and have no issues with it, but ask your doctor what he thinks about it.
 
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scarlettsmum

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haidut said:
post 105261
scarlettsmum said:
post 105257
haidut said:
post 105244
scarlettsmum said:
post 105221 Haidut, can I give my 5 year old daughter who is mildly autistic estroban? She has mostly high anxiety and fear so i am wondering if the fat soluble vitamins might calm her down and block some substances that cause these unnecessary anxieties? What would be the correct daily dosage? thanks!

I would ask a doctor first before giving to children. The product is safe for children but I don't know what doses would be appropriate. For autism, an antiserotonin drugs like cyproheptadine, mirtazapine, ketanserin are much more likely to help. Have you looked into that?

I don't feel comfortable/am scared giving her drugs that could have potential side effects. I just don't know enough about it. Obviously we all grew up with only doctors prescribing things for us and I just don't feel comfortable making her into a guinea pig. I wish I had the confidence though....:) I used to give her clo on stupid wapf diet so she was getting both a and d vitamins at least. Also she has never been vaccinated, no gut issues, so i'd like to think her autism could be easily corrected with the right approach. Has anybody tried these drugs here successfully treating children with autism, for us the biggest problem at the moment is anxiety and the occasional irrational fear. Funnily enough I also struggle/-d with anxiety, so she must have been lucky enough to inherit my gut flora along with that "evil" serotonin.

Google "cyproheptadine autism" and "serotonin autism". You can show your doctor the studies with cyproheptadine that you find. I doubt he will have a problem with them as cyproheptadine was an anti-allergy drug developed specifically for children and in many countries it is still the primary allergy drug for children. Some take it for decades and have no issues with it, but ask your doctor what he thinks about it.

How fascinating, Haidut. Does the drug actually cure autism or is it something that once you stop taking it all symptoms return? And sorry for hijacking this this thread on estroban! This is my last question in this thread on autism.
 
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haidut

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scarlettsmum said:
post 105294
haidut said:
post 105261
scarlettsmum said:
post 105257
haidut said:
post 105244
scarlettsmum said:
post 105221 Haidut, can I give my 5 year old daughter who is mildly autistic estroban? She has mostly high anxiety and fear so i am wondering if the fat soluble vitamins might calm her down and block some substances that cause these unnecessary anxieties? What would be the correct daily dosage? thanks!

I would ask a doctor first before giving to children. The product is safe for children but I don't know what doses would be appropriate. For autism, an antiserotonin drugs like cyproheptadine, mirtazapine, ketanserin are much more likely to help. Have you looked into that?

I don't feel comfortable/am scared giving her drugs that could have potential side effects. I just don't know enough about it. Obviously we all grew up with only doctors prescribing things for us and I just don't feel comfortable making her into a guinea pig. I wish I had the confidence though....:) I used to give her clo on stupid wapf diet so she was getting both a and d vitamins at least. Also she has never been vaccinated, no gut issues, so i'd like to think her autism could be easily corrected with the right approach. Has anybody tried these drugs here successfully treating children with autism, for us the biggest problem at the moment is anxiety and the occasional irrational fear. Funnily enough I also struggle/-d with anxiety, so she must have been lucky enough to inherit my gut flora along with that "evil" serotonin.

Google "cyproheptadine autism" and "serotonin autism". You can show your doctor the studies with cyproheptadine that you find. I doubt he will have a problem with them as cyproheptadine was an anti-allergy drug developed specifically for children and in many countries it is still the primary allergy drug for children. Some take it for decades and have no issues with it, but ask your doctor what he thinks about it.

How fascinating, Haidut. Does the drug actually cure autism or is it something that once you stop taking it all symptoms return? And sorry for hijacking this this thread on estroban! This is my last question in this thread on autism.

There are several studies, and the latest one on autism showed that blocking/antagonizing the 5-HT2 receptor was curative. Cyproheptadine is a 5-HT2 blocker but the latest study was with ketanserin and yes, it seemed to reverse the condition fully. Cyproheptadine was also tried on kids and had positive effects but that study said they were not sure of the proper dose and probably underdosed it to keep safe.
 
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scarlettsmum

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ok, I still can't get it out of the bottle. I considered cutting it, but then I'm worried about the correct dosage. Help please!
 

Makrosky

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scarlettsmum said:
post 105544 ok, I still can't get it out of the bottle. I considered cutting it, but then I'm worried about the correct dosage. Help please!

Scarlet, try to remove the tip of the bottle (just bite it and pull) and then you'll probably see an air bubble that it's preventing estroban to drip. Pinch the bubble with a knife or just blowing, and then close it and pour as many drops as you want. I discovered that yesterday and it kind of works.
 
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Ella

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scarlettsmum said:
post 105257 I don't feel comfortable/am scared giving her drugs that could have potential side effects. I just don't know enough about it. Obviously we all grew up with only doctors prescribing things for us and I just don't feel comfortable making her into a guinea pig. I wish I had the confidence though....:) I used to give her clo on stupid wapf diet so she was getting both a and d vitamins at least. Also she has never been vaccinated, no gut issues, so i'd like to think her autism could be easily corrected with the right approach. Has anybody tried these drugs here successfully treating children with autism,
Scarlettsmum, I was looking into Haidut's fat soluble vitamins and come across your entry. I started my research career in Retinol purely focused on a degenerative eye condition that manifests itself at the time of puberty. It affects females and males equally, well at the time I was researching it. Today though it seems to be affecting more males than females which is interesting to me due to the estrogen link. It seems I was born too early and wish I could continue this research because it is so fascinating. But I will cut to the chase. Retinol seems to be having good results with autism which is another high five for me, as I was discouraged and given little support. Retinol research was not very sexy at the time (no funding). I was meant to be looking for the gene for this conditions and I argued strongly that no gene existed. I have attached a paper and yes cod liver oil was used to supplement retinol. I would also not recommend CLO. I would not punish yourself too much. As mothers we can't expect to know everything; we are only expected to do our best even though everyone thinks we are superbeings. Peat has stated that the benefits that are gain from CLO is from the Vitamin A. I would advocate natural forms like liver, milk etc. Retinol is heat stable but extremely light sensitive. Retinol in milk comes with its own binding protein which makes it incredibly safe. A little bit of liver in the diet goes a long way. I have seen amazing things happen with it. I advocate all couples planning to concieve to ensure that they are retinol replete before conception. The biggest challenge I have is getting young people and couples (even old people) as it is longer part of the normal diet, to understand that eating a little bit of liver once a week is mandatory not only for their own health but for the health and robustness of future generations.
I suggest you contact the pediatrician:

Mary N. Megson, M.D., F.A.A.P.
Developmental Pediatrician
Pediatric and Adolescent Ability Center
7229 Forest Avenue
Suite 211
Richmond, VA 23226
Fax: 804-673-9195

You might need to convince her that you don't want to go with the CLO. I would also check out who is backing her. You never know she may be associated with WAPF or getting funding from them.

Best,
 

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Ella said:
post 107618 I advocate all couples planning to concieve to ensure that they are retinol replete before conception. The biggest challenge I have is getting young people and couples (even old people) as it is longer part of the normal diet, to understand that eating a little bit of liver once a week is mandatory not only for their own health but for the health and robustness of future generations.

Nice!
 
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scarlettsmum

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Ella said:
post 107618
scarlettsmum said:
post 105257 I don't feel comfortable/am scared giving her drugs that could have potential side effects. I just don't know enough about it. Obviously we all grew up with only doctors prescribing things for us and I just don't feel comfortable making her into a guinea pig. I wish I had the confidence though....:) I used to give her clo on stupid wapf diet so she was getting both a and d vitamins at least. Also she has never been vaccinated, no gut issues, so i'd like to think her autism could be easily corrected with the right approach. Has anybody tried these drugs here successfully treating children with autism,

Scarlettsmum, I was looking into Haidut's fat soluble vitamins and come across your entry. I started my research career in Retinol purely focused on a degenerative eye condition that manifests itself at the time of puberty. It affects females and males equally, well at the time I was researching it. Today though it seems to be affecting more males than females which is interesting to me due to the estrogen link. It seems I was born too early and wish I could continue this research because it is so fascinating. But I will cut to the chase. Retinol seems to be having good results with autism which is another high five for me, as I was discouraged and given little support. Retinol research was not very sexy at the time (no funding). I was meant to be looking for the gene for this conditions and I argued strongly that no gene existed. I have attached a paper and yes cod liver oil was used to supplement retinol. I would also not recommend CLO. I would not punish yourself too much. As mothers we can't expect to know everything; we are only expected to do our best even though everyone thinks we are superbeings. Peat has stated that the benefits that are gain from CLO is from the Vitamin A. I would advocate natural forms like liver, milk etc. Retinol is heat stable but extremely light sensitive. Retinol in milk comes with its own binding protein which makes it incredibly safe. A little bit of liver in the diet goes a long way. I have seen amazing things happen with it. I advocate all couples planning to concieve to ensure that they are retinol replete before conception. The biggest challenge I have is getting young people and couples (even old people) as it is longer part of the normal diet, to understand that eating a little bit of liver once a week is mandatory not only for their own health but for the health and robustness of future generations.
I suggest you contact the pediatrician:

Mary N. Megson, M.D., F.A.A.P.
Developmental Pediatrician
Pediatric and Adolescent Ability Center
7229 Forest Avenue
Suite 211
Richmond, VA 23226
Fax: <a href="tel:804-673-9195">804-673-9195</a>

You might need to convince her that you don't want to go with the CLO. I would also check out who is backing her. You never know she may be associated with WAPF or getting funding from them.

Best,



Thank you Ella. I will certainly look into that. We do eat liver once a week and I'm forcing her to have a 1/2 cup of milk every day after dinner but she doesn't like it at all and I'm not sure 1/2 cup is even enough. I'm certain she has inherited something from me as I have a history of anxiety and panic attacks as a result of prolonged use of birth control pills. I assume estrogen dominance at play? Although she was born about 5 years later following wapf diet, I was still having anxiety and panic attacks throughout the pregnancy, plus I was overdosing on clo, so I'm guessing this might have caused it.
 
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Ella

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scarlettsmum said:
post 107965 she hasn't been vaccinated fortunately
Your right here. So you can safely rule out any interference from viral particles and adjuvants from vaccines. You can let that pediatrician know this so that she can refine her hypothesis. :roll: The CLO as Peat says, works by supressing the immune system. We all have remnants of viral DNA throughout our genome which can be activated when immunity is lowered. This is why it is important to get the PUFAs out of the diet. So it is not necessarily coming from vaccines. Peat is the only one that makes any sense when it comes to strengthening the organism in order to withstand the plethora of onslaughts that the body needs to contend with. Everyone else is just guessing or making it up. :x
I would have her tested to get an idea of her retinol levels. In saying this, testing is not easy as serum levels are tightly regulated until the liver reserves get dangerously low. The gold standard is doing a liver biospy but this is not recommended nor feasible due to the invasiveness of the procedure. Part of my research was the design of a none invasive means of testing. There are many techniques under investigation but nothing that is uncomplicated. Serum retinol and retinol binding protein, iron levels, hemoglobin, ferritin and inflammatory markers may give better indication of status. I have attached WHO pdf that discusses the challenges involved.
Women who are on the contraceptive pill will retain higher levels of retinol. If you were taking CLO during pregnancy and during the lactation period, I would doubt that your little girl would be Vitamin A deficient, unless she was a prem baby and you were unable to breastfeed, she suffers from malabsorption syndrome, celiac, irritable bowel syndrome, cystic fibrosis, or experiences frequent diarrhea and infections or perhaps an extremely finicky child. Is she eating sufficient protein and calories. I recalled a young boy who would only eat white pasta and no tomato sauce who suffered from the corneal disease I was researching - it was not a result of derelict genes. Sometimes an individual can be marginally replete but an infectious episodes will push them into a deficient state. Vitamin A deficiency is more likely to occur in poor countries where there is limited access to animal based food and poor maternal nutrition. These are the statistics for the USA
Vitamin A deficiency is considered to be <70 umol/l, sub optimal < 1.05. The US Interdepartmental Committee on Nutrition for National Defense finds the acceptable range to be 0.70 - 1.71umol/l. While the CDC in Atlana recommended a range of 0.87 - 3.59umol which is a huge range. The question remains what is considered a healthy population?
I think it is best to look at the eyes for signs. How well do her eyes adapt to darkness. If you switch the light on when she is in the dark, do her eyes hurt, does it take time for them to adjust to the light. I would get an opthalmologist to check her eyes to see if there are any changes to her corneas. Does she experience frequent conjunctivitis or is highly allergic to pollens and moulds. The most vulnerable time is just before and around puberty when estrogen levels increase. Does she suffer from dry scaly skin, dry patches on her upper arms and legs? Dry patches on her cheeks? Is she subjective to viral and respiratory infections?
I would do a full iron panel. Vitamin A and iron deficiency anemia co-exist together. Check her ferritin, transferritin and hemogloblin levels. It has been found that in the absence of infection, Vitamin A increases iron and hemoglobin levels.
If she suffers from persistent headaches, nausea, vomiting, double vision or blurred vision, fatigue/weakness, dizziness, seizures, muscle/bone/joint pain, dry mucous membranes and inflammation of the tongue, then I would stop all animal foods or reduce, especially liver as these are symptoms of toxicity. If you think you OD’d on CLO then you would have also experienced these types of symptoms. I would focus on potatoes, fruits and defatted gelatine broth if this is the case.
I would do a full comprehensive check on other important biomarkers and I would not recommend anybody supplement unless they have been tested and a true deficiency exists. Don't take stabs in the dark - be diligent and check. On a good diet, supplements are not necessary unless there are malabsorption issues. I think Peat reinforces this quite strongly. Supplementing is fraught with problems even when you are under supervision.
In my previous response, I advocated to make sure you are replete, only because a majority of young people are eating such bad diets and restrict foods and the trend in my country at least, is that starvation diets and being a gym junkie and living on protein powders and supplements is considered healthy. I have seen wonderful things with liver and milk in the diet but this has been in those individuals that have existed on very poor diets - equivalent to third world countries or perhaps even worse when you consider that mothers think a soy-based drink ("Up and Go") fortified with synthetic vitamins an appropriate breakfast for their 13 year old female child, who is expected to participate at champion level sports competitions. I know you are not that mother but I find it hard to reconcile that these people truly exist. They are not the poor uneducated, they represent some of the wealthiest people in my country - why are they eating such improverished foods?
I wish you the best in resolving your little girl's health issues and the insight to make the right decisions. Inform yourself and then trust your mother's instinct as I am sure you will do a better job than any specialist out there.
 
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EquilibriumSW

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Hi Haidut.

Are there any side effects to Estroban? like sexual or gynecomastia for example?

What are the recommended daily doses? Take it orally?

For how long can I take this supplement?

Thanks in advance, have a great day
 
T

tobieagle

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I would like to know how far you are away from getting your products bottled industrially and how the estimated price will be then.

Thank you
 
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haidut

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EquilibriumSW said:
post 109189 Hi Haidut.

Are there any side effects to Estroban? like sexual or gynecomastia for example?

What are the recommended daily doses? Take it orally?

For how long can I take this supplement?

Thanks in advance, have a great day

Why do you think it can cause gynecomastia or sexual side effects?
 
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haidut

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tobieagle said:
post 109194 I would like to know how far you are away from getting your products bottled industrially and how the estimated price will be then.

Thank you

All the well-known companies that I asked so far require 10,000 bottles minimum commitment monthly to be even worth considering. Some of them also insist on being allowed to use their own raw materials, which includes using tocopheryl acetate and succinate, as well as vitamin K1 instead of K2. I can't discuss specific sales volume but let's just say we certainly do not sell 10,000 bottles of EstroBan a month.
I do keep looking though, as doing this semi-manually is certainly not sustainable if sales increase.
 
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charlie

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I personally hope you never outsource but I understand the limitations of that.
 
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haidut

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Charlie said:
post 109200 I personally hope you never outsource but I understand the limitations of that.

Right now it's working fine but I do get emails and posts like the above that ask about outsourcing and dropping the price. I guess I can do both if we reach that point - i.e. have the same handmade operation at home for a smaller clique of fans and the mainstream, machine produced version for everybody else. Truth be told, the price will probably be not that much lower. If you look at decent quality retail version of vitamin K, A, D, E the combined retail price for a bottle of EstroBan will probably be somewhere in the vicinity of $15, maybe $12 if you manage to strike some deals. The profit margins in the supplement business are not high, otherwise Pfizer & Co. will be doing vitamins all day long. Believe me, there are people at Big Pharma that know very well about how effective certain vitamins can be. It's just that the profits are not big enough for them as public companies. The patentability is actually not an issue. As the recent cases with biotin for MS and P5P for heart failure show, FDA can ban certain vitamins from the open market and grant exclusive rights for sale to the company that did the clinical trial. FDA can also limit the dose available OTC so that most people won't be able to reach pharmacological doses. There are many things FDA can do to make a vitamin sell like a drug. So, for Big Pharma it comes down to profit really and the vitamins are just not worth it for now. That may change soon given the absolute failure of most drugs within the last 20 years.
 
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tobieagle

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haidut said:
post 109199
tobieagle said:
post 109194 I would like to know how far you are away from getting your products bottled industrially and how the estimated price will be then.

Thank you

All the well-known companies that I asked so far require 10,000 bottles minimum commitment monthly to be even worth considering. Some of them also insist on being allowed to use their own raw materials, which includes using tocopheryl acetate and succinate, as well as vitamin K1 instead of K2. I can't discuss specific sales volume but let's just say we certainly do not sell 10,000 bottles of EstroBan a month.
I do keep looking though, as doing this semi-manually is certainly not sustainable if sales increase.

Thank you for your answer.
I think we should make no compromises when it comes to ingredients.
I didn't know the situation is that bad.
If it's true that the price wouldn't be that much lower anyway I would not outsource, especially if you have no control over the production process.

Another option when the demand gets too high is for you to make the production process open source, so others who have the needed skills can also produce.
 
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haidut

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tobieagle said:
post 109221
haidut said:
post 109199
tobieagle said:
post 109194 I would like to know how far you are away from getting your products bottled industrially and how the estimated price will be then.

Thank you

All the well-known companies that I asked so far require 10,000 bottles minimum commitment monthly to be even worth considering. Some of them also insist on being allowed to use their own raw materials, which includes using tocopheryl acetate and succinate, as well as vitamin K1 instead of K2. I can't discuss specific sales volume but let's just say we certainly do not sell 10,000 bottles of EstroBan a month.
I do keep looking though, as doing this semi-manually is certainly not sustainable if sales increase.

Thank you for your answer.
I think we should make no compromises when it comes to ingredients.
I didn't know the situation is that bad.
If it's true that the price wouldn't be that much lower anyway I would not outsource, especially if you have no control over the production process.

Another option when the demand gets too high is for you to make the production process open source, so others who have the needed skills can also produce.

I think it already is open source - the ingredients are there for everyone to see as well as their doses. The rest of the bottle is organic olive oil. I think most people pay for convenience and also some countries getting say vitamin K2 or pure tocopherols is next to impossible.
Btw, I am testing a version based on DMSO/ethanol so if absorption proves to be close to 100% with that one then one EstroBan can last potentially for months thus decreasing the cost per dose dramatically.
 
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charlie

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tobieagle said:
post 109221 Thank you for your answer.
I think we should make no compromises when it comes to ingredients.
:1

haidut said:
post 109224 Btw, I am testing a version based on DMSO/ethanol so if absorption proves to be close to 100% with that one then one EstroBan can last potentially for months thus decreasing the cost per dose dramatically.
Quoted for awesomeness. :D :hattip
 
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