PUFA Detox And Long Term Well Being

Velve921

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SO Ray Peat has talked about the detox of pufas from the body's tissues...and how it can take years to find true well being. Has anybody been Peating long enough (years) where they just finally started feeling good? Basically I just want some testimonials that this is the case as I've been been Peating for 6 months and I am not there yet. Does this actually happen or is it a theory?

Let me know any and all thoughts.
 

Mittir

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That 4 years number is based on review of several human studies.
It is not a theoretical number. I posted that study in an old thread.
This half life will be smaller if one loses fat while replacing new type of fat.

I have been avoiding omega-6 before i found Ray Peat. But, i used to eat
tons of food fried in vegetable oil. Only last 1 year i have been strictly
avoiding PUFA, usually PUFA intake within 4 grams and one or twice
a week it reaches upto 10-15 grams when i eat store bought fried foods
or home made foods cooked using soy bean oils. I get skin problem if i
eat vegetable oil 2-3 days in a row and i figure this out before RP.
I have a strong motivation to avoid PUFA.

Since starting strict avoidance of PUFA i have seen big improvements
every 3-4 months, kind of incremental improvement. I have noticed
old health issues getting better or completely disappearing.
Things getting easier with time. PUFA avoidance is a big part of peating
but this alone will not fix everything without proper diet.
RP thinks metabolism is restored when saturated to PUFA ratio is
2:1 and it should take 2-3 years. Age and size are big factors too, young and lean
people can quickly turn around things by avoiding PUFA.

Addition: RP has also mentioned if one eats more calories he/she can burn
in the form of carbohydrate then they can improve saturated to pufa
ratio. Excess carbohydrate will make saturated fat.This is more like
replacing fat with carb. Even coconut and butter has 2 percent PUFA.
I think a lean person can adopt this strategy, not someone who is trying to lose fat.
 
OP
Velve921

Velve921

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Interesting....only 4 pufas a day? Can I ask what your diet looks like where pufas are so low?

Currently I do:

fat free milk, coconut oil, kerrygolds butter, fruit juices, 2 eggs a day, some rice occassionally, ice cream, gelatin, salt, white potatoes, either chicken or steak once a day, shrimp 1-2 times a week, 1 carrot a day.

Thoughts on adjustments?

So I've been Peating for 6 months...1.5 months ago I had mercury removed..a lot of mercury removed! So my body is going through a lot of adjustments...also dealing with an excessive urination issue.
 

Mittir

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I buy raw whole milk and then skim off fat from the top and i count that as 2 percent milk.
Daily i drink 4-5 cups of milk with 2-3 tbs of sugar and 4-5 grams of instant Coffee per cup.
I make farmers cheese from 4-6 cups of milk. In farmer's cheese some of the
fat is lost with the whey, that is equivalent to 1 percent cottage cheese.
Then i eat about 1 oz of beef liver daily and some skinless chicken breast or low fat fish.
I avoid eggs since i am allergic to egg. I also take 2-3 tbs of coconut oil.
Apple juice 6-8 cups and about 150 grams of table sugar with milk coffee.
I eat a small serving of rice with some vegetable and chicken/fish for lunch.
I eat other non peat foods occasionally as long as its PUFA content is low.

You can cut down on eggs and replace it with liver. Liver has almost
everything that egg provides and more. Egg has considerable amount of
PUFA. You need to eat some extra gelatin and calcium with steak to
balance high phosphorus and tryptophan.
 
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I think niacin can help get PUFA out of your tissues more quickly.
 

Mittir

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RP recommends vitamin E to neutralize some of the damage done by
released PUFA. The dose of vitamin E depends on amount of stored PUFA.
He mentioned that a middle aged man needs about 400 IU of vitamin E
to maintain fertility and higher doses are fine too. But he also cautioned
against long term use of high dose vitamin E. When a person is PUFA
depleted he would not need E supplements.

RP recommends niacinamide 100 mg 2-3 times a day with meal or
sugary drinks to inhibit release of PUFA. Released PUFA does most of the
harms and limiting it's release is guarding us against it's toxic effect.
This may increase the half life of PUFA storage and he thinks
slow removal of PUFA is safer.
 
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Velve921

Velve921

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Thank you for that info! Does Peat ever talk about side effects from pufa release or detox?
 

Mittir

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Ewlevy1 said:
Thank you for that info! Does Peat ever talk about side effects from pufa release or detox?

RP talked about damage from large release of PUFA from storage and that is why
he recommends free fatty acid inhibitors like Niacinamide or Aspirin and small
frequent meals. Body will always be burning some fat and fat cells and some other cells
burn PUFA at rest and that is safer. When liver is energized and there is not
over whelming amount of PUFA, liver can neutralize PUFA.
Excess PUFA can damage liver and lowers it's ability to detoxify anything.
As long as it is small release of PUFA then there is not much damage.
 

sheldonkreger

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I'm in the process of changing my diet based on Peat's thoughts. What do you recommend for an initial PUFA detox?

-sheldon
 

Mittir

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I am not sure what you meant by initial detox.
A young and lean person can quickly change stored fat ratio.
It takes longer for older people, by 30-40 most people eating
PUFA have a bad ratio of saturated fat to PUFA.

RP recommends use of vitamin E to prevent lipid peroxidation damage
by PUFA. Depending on your stored PUFA you can use 200-400 IU daily
and higher potency are fine too.

Niacinamide can inihibit PUFA release and that can heal liver.
Coffee and low iron diet also help liver.
Healthy liver is the key to detoxify released PUFA.
Lowering endotoxin will lower burden on liver. Raw carrot salad or
cooked bamboo shoots lower endotoxin. Avoiding starch, soluble fiber
and hard to digest food can lower endotoxin.
B vitamins and selenium are necessary for good liver
function. If you choose to use Aspirin you will need vitamin K
to balance the clotting problems. Aspirin can also cause ulcers
in some people. 50-100 mg of Niacinamide with meals or carbohydrate
is recommended for lowering PUFA release.

He also mentioned that cancer rate starts increasing with 4 grams or more
PUFA intake. It can be a good guide for PUFA restriction.
 

pboy

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this may sound like a silly question, I mean it theoretically....would say, binging on potatoes actually be healing? for a few reasons, you would synthesize saturated fatty acid which would buffer the pufa ratio, change it in the right direction, it also provides abundant carbohydrate and protein for the liver to detoxify pufa or anything else via glucuronic acid
 

narouz

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pboy said:
this may sound like a silly question, I mean it theoretically....would say, binging on potatoes actually be healing? for a few reasons, you would synthesize saturated fatty acid which would buffer the pufa ratio, change it in the right direction, it also provides abundant carbohydrate and protein for the liver to detoxify pufa or anything else via glucuronic acid

I'm a dimwit when it comes to chemistry,
but I'll take a stab at part of the question:

I'm not sure binging on potatoes would result in a surfeit of saturated fatty acids.
The starch would provide all glucose.
Without the fructose...not sure how much saturated fatty acid would be synthesized...

On the protein:
while the protein in potato is very high quality,
you'd really have to binge to get a lot of protein from straight potato.

And then you 'd have to contend with all the adverse aspects of potato binging:
-starch providing food for bacteria/endotoxin and increasing appetite (adverse
unless weight gain desired)
-high phosphate to calcium ratio...not good...
 

Mittir

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Theoretically one with very strong liver and good thyroid function with
ability to store glycogen even with high glucose intake can use potato based
diet to change ratio of SFA to PUFA in right direction.
 

arinryan

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I was very focused on depleting PUFA from about 2007, after reading some RP articles. It took about 3 years before nagging health issues seemed to go away. (I was a little too low-carb, as well.) I actually used a lot of potatoes for carbs, and it seemed to work well for me--I lost weight, thyroid issues faded.
Now looking back, its a bit sad...I met my husband then, and going out on dates to restaurants, etc....it did my good health in! My PUFA status has gone downhill...I think the easiest way to tell this is by how your body reacts to fewer calories (so it needs to burn its own fat). If you have "high-pufa" reactions, like inflammation, constipation, edginess from adrenaline...it probably means there is a lot of pufa being burned. Even though I have been much better in the past year about choosing only low-pufa foods, I still have those issues when I don't eat enough calories for even one day.
 

haidut

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For those wishing to go the quick route for PUFA depletion through exercise and reduced PUFA intake, taurine and vitamin E are crucial for protecting the liver while depleting PUFA. Also, it seems taurine can directly lower PUFA levels in tissues and brain. Here are some studies to consider for taurine. The vitamin E protective effects are well-known so I am not listing studies on it.

http://www.fda.gov.tw/tc/includes/GetFi ... 00ce2a5e59.

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jaa/2013/240537/

"...Although taurine is reported to be an antioxidant, exogenous taurine was embryopathic and caused increased apoptosis rates (caspase-3 activities); increased brain HoCys levels; increased oxidative-stress (decreased brain GSH levels); decreased brain long-chain polyunsaturated levels; and increased brain LPO levels."

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=us

http://europepmc.org/abstract/CBA/301442
 
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Niacin frees up arachidonic acid from cells, too.
 

Filip1993

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Mittir said:
I buy raw whole milk and then skim off fat from the top and i count that as 2 percent milk.
Daily i drink 4-5 cups of milk with 2-3 tbs of sugar and 4-5 grams of instant Coffee per cup.
I make farmers cheese from 4-6 cups of milk. In farmer's cheese some of the
fat is lost with the whey, that is equivalent to 1 percent cottage cheese.
Then i eat about 1 oz of beef liver daily and some skinless chicken breast or low fat fish.
I avoid eggs since i am allergic to egg. I also take 2-3 tbs of coconut oil.
Apple juice 6-8 cups and about 150 grams of table sugar with milk coffee.
I eat a small serving of rice with some vegetable and chicken/fish for lunch.
I eat other non peat foods occasionally as long as its PUFA content is low.

You can cut down on eggs and replace it with liver. Liver has almost
everything that egg provides and more. Egg has considerable amount of
PUFA. You need to eat some extra gelatin and calcium with steak to
balance high phosphorus and tryptophan.

Mittir, how much fat do skim off to get 2% milk?
 
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Velve921

Velve921

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arinryan,

If you don't mind me asking, what were your health issues that went away after 3 years? (If it's not personal of course) I wonder because I am 6 months into being a peatarian and my health issues are still not gone yet.
 

SaltGirl

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I am beginning to wonder whether it isn't outright important if not necessary to eat saturated fat when lowering pufa. I switched to full fat milk a week ago and I have noticed only good things about doing so(hell, less bloating for one).

My hypothesis is that if you have PUFA then the body will do its best to use either vitamins or saturated fat to "soothe" the damage that pufa do. However, if you don't eat enough fat then the body has to make its own(which is an energy intensive process) which in turn means that if you don't eat enough carbs to compensate for the lack of fat then you will enter stress mode and therefore "full retard pufa burn mode".

Just an idea that I've been playing around as I've noticed eating a bit more fat(saturated) has helped with many issues.

This also might be why overfeeding a la Matt Stone might be beneficial as it gives the body enough energy to make fat to overcome pufa issues.

Again, just a hypothesis.
 

Amazoniac

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Mittir,

How do you know for sure that the gradual improvements you notice were from strict PUFA avoidance. And why, in your opinion, it happened in this staircase pattern. I would expect either one:
- A big sudden improvement after some time of restriction. And just one.
or
- A slow improvement following a smooth curve, and not the stair pattern.
 

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