4 years of Pufa Detox

jaa · May 26, 2015

I thought tanning was simply a way to regulate vitamin d.

When I started supplementing vitamin d a few years ago I thought I noticed myself tanning a lot faster after winter than I used to. I could have been imagining things or the faster tanning may have been for reasons other than the vitamin d supplement.

Dean · May 26, 2015

I have my first tan in many years right now. For years, I'd get beet red with time in the sun. People would freak and be sympathetic about the pain they thought I must be in, but it rarely, if ever, hurt. I'd go to bed and the next day, I'd wake up back to my lily white self.

Was kind of excited to be able to tan again and attributed it to 4 months of VLF diet, but perhaps it was the few months of the more than usual Vitamin D supplementation I did for a few months this winter, or perhaps it was using red light for the first time?

Hugh Johnson · May 26, 2015

haidut said:
Hugh Johnson said:

haidut said:

Do you know what the mechanism of protection is? Are there any studies behind it?

Click to expand...

Not him, but Peat has mentioned that Vit D deficiency prevents tanning. Doesn't affect sunburn immediately, but he is half right.

Click to expand...

Well, tanning is an adaptive response to stress (burning) so wouldn't we want to avoid it? Is that an argument against vitamin D?
I am assuming that ideally one would want neither tanning nor burning.

Muscle hypertrophy is an adaptive response to stress. Would we want to avoid it?

haidut · May 26, 2015

Hugh Johnson said:
haidut said:

Hugh Johnson said:

haidut said:

Do you know what the mechanism of protection is? Are there any studies behind it?

Click to expand...

Not him, but Peat has mentioned that Vit D deficiency prevents tanning. Doesn't affect sunburn immediately, but he is half right.

Click to expand...

Well, tanning is an adaptive response to stress (burning) so wouldn't we want to avoid it? Is that an argument against vitamin D?
I am assuming that ideally one would want neither tanning nor burning.

Click to expand...

Muscle hypertrophy is an adaptive response to stress. Would we want to avoid it?

Muscle hypertrophy - no - because it leads to increased metabolism. It is also very trophic for the brain. What health benefits of getting tanned can you suggest?

jaa · May 26, 2015

Looking sexy AF.

All I can really think of is it may vitamin D levels within an optimal range.

tara · May 26, 2015

haidut said:
Hugh Johnson said:

haidut said:

Hugh Johnson said:

haidut said:

Do you know what the mechanism of protection is? Are there any studies behind it?

Click to expand...

Not him, but Peat has mentioned that Vit D deficiency prevents tanning. Doesn't affect sunburn immediately, but he is half right.

Click to expand...

Well, tanning is an adaptive response to stress (burning) so wouldn't we want to avoid it? Is that an argument against vitamin D?
I am assuming that ideally one would want neither tanning nor burning.

Click to expand...

Muscle hypertrophy is an adaptive response to stress. Would we want to avoid it?

Click to expand...

Muscle hypertrophy - no - because it leads to increased metabolism. It is also very trophic for the brain. What health benefits of getting tanned can you suggest?

How about: a tan allows you to spend more time in the sun accumulating red light benefits (which I think you get even with a tan?) before you get significant UV damage, eg to blood cells etc, which the tan protects from?

oxidation_is_normal · May 27, 2015

Some pretty sad stuff in this thread. If you're gonna challenge basic science get yourself some damn sources. Tanning is a well-known reaction. You can't eat vitamin D and affect your tanning; these are separate. If the sun is beaming down at you all day and you haven't evolved to build houses yet, then you need melanin to shield cells from the sun.

Tarmander · May 27, 2015

Sooo, no one really else with results on the four year plan eh?

Zachs · May 27, 2015

Don't think too many people have known about RP for 4 years, let alone followed a strict diet plan of avoiding pufa. Durian Rider and Freelee are two people who have avoided pufa long term...

BobbyDukes · May 27, 2015

oxidation_is_normal said:
Some pretty sad stuff in this thread. If you're gonna challenge basic science get yourself some damn sources. Tanning is a well-known reaction. You can't eat vitamin D and affect your tanning; these are separate. If the sun is beaming down at you all day and you haven't evolved to build houses yet, then you need melanin to shield cells from the sun.

I would agree with this, but people would have still built shelter, or found shelter from the sun. To sit out in the sun all day is not a pleasant experience. Moderation is key. No doubt our predecessors would have sought shade. The evenings, when the sun is actually nice to be in, would be when they'd be out in it. Speculation I know.

Nobody is suggesting you sit in doors during the summer, watching Oprah Winfrey all day. That would cause anyone to end it.

I personally notice that I look start looking older, if I sit out in the sun all the time. Too much of it does tax the skin. But that's a problem for me, all in itself. I could easily sit in it all day. I hate being indoors during the sunmer.

I go brown; but, to me, I look younger without a tan. My skin takes on a leather kind of look with a tan. Unfortunately, in previous years, I have sat in the sun so much, I seem to have a permanent tan now.

I have always wondered whether a tan is actually healthy.

Dean · May 27, 2015

Ok, so getting a tan is no healthier than from going from red, back to white from sun exposure. So, what would this renewed capacity to tan connote in terms of what is going on with your body? Is it PUFA depletion then?

Daimyo · May 27, 2015

I am aiming for low PUFA's for few months (not very strictly, but my normal diet is PUFA lowish).

More than 10 years ago when I started doing paleo diet I reduce my PUFAs by reducing omega-6. I started that diet in winter and I was surprised, that I was more resistant to sunburns by summer.

tara · May 27, 2015

oxidation_is_normal said:
Some pretty sad stuff in this thread. If you're gonna challenge basic science get yourself some damn sources. Tanning is a well-known reaction. You can't eat vitamin D and affect your tanning; these are separate. If the sun is beaming down at you all day and you haven't evolved to build houses yet, then you need melanin to shield cells from the sun.

I'm all in favour of basic science explanations, when they do a good job of explaining the available data.
So what's your scientific explanation for the changes people have described above?
Does 'basic science' have an explanation for why some people's ability/propensity to burn or tan can change?
(Or has 'basic science' not yet got around to investigating this very thoroughly yet)?

EnoreeG · May 27, 2015

jaa said:
I thought tanning was simply a way to regulate vitamin d.

When I started supplementing vitamin d a few years ago I thought I noticed myself tanning a lot faster after winter than I used to. I could have been imagining things or the faster tanning may have been for reasons other than the vitamin d supplement.

I noticed the same effect a few years ago when I first started vitamin D supps. I've been off omega-6 oils for 10-12 years (though ate too many nuts until a couple of years ago) and never noticed a tanning/burning effect. Then about 8 years ago, I noticed I tended to burn a little easier than usual, so it took longer to get a tan. I attributed that to "aging". The old man just will have to be more careful in the sun. Then along came the vitamin D flurry. I started taking it in 2000-5000 iu doses 3 years ago and took it through the Winter until March 2013. But I noticed right away, coming out of Winter, I was tanning beautifully again. No change in PUFA. I attributed it to the D. But over 2 years ago, in the Fall of 2013, after hearing a lot of bad news on what D can do, I decided to not resume it for the Winter. I still have the same sun protection as when I was very young though. No more sun sensitivity. I tan beautifully. So either it took like 12 years for PUFA to deplete, or the high doses of D during 2013 fixed me and has a residual effect still. OR, I just have less stress, better food, and a healthier immune system now, and so there's more calcitriol circulating in me than ever before. It could be the higher level of the storage form of D that is responsible for allowing tanning to occur, as someone else also postulated. It makes sense to me. You only need to keep extra white to make maximum D on the skin if you are very short on it.

Dean · May 27, 2015

tara said:
oxidation_is_normal said:

Some pretty sad stuff in this thread. If you're gonna challenge basic science get yourself some damn sources. Tanning is a well-known reaction. You can't eat vitamin D and affect your tanning; these are separate. If the sun is beaming down at you all day and you haven't evolved to build houses yet, then you need melanin to shield cells from the sun.

Click to expand...

I'm all in favour of basic science explanations, when they do a good job of explaining the available data.
So what's your scientific explanation for the changes people have described above?
Does 'basic science' have an explanation for why some people's ability/propensity to burn or tan can change?
(Or has 'basic science' not yet got around to investigating this very thoroughly yet)?

Come on now, Tara. Don't be foolish enough to believe that something directly experienced or observed can actually be considered, much less believed, if it can't be reconciled to a scientific study. What are you; one of those luddites?

LOL. It's a crazy, upside down, bizarre world we live in these days.

tara · May 27, 2015

Dean said:
Come on now, Tara. Don't be foolish enough to believe that something directly experienced or observed can actually be considered, much less believed, if it can't be reconciled to a scientific study. What are you; one of those luddites?

LOL. It's a crazy, upside down, bizarre world we live in these days.

Go Luddites.

pboy · May 27, 2015

at the moment the final molecule of pufa leaves your body, Ray Peat will show up at your house and give you a certificate and shake your hand

Dean · May 27, 2015

That's so cool. I wonder if he brings Ed McMahon with him.

arinryan · May 28, 2015

I did get through a 4 year detox, but I never measured iodine levels.... That is quite interesting, Haidut! I just know I was suddenly healthy, things resolved, even though I had just been "going along like normal for a while" in terms of diet. This was about 2009-2010...I started cutting out pufa in about 2004.
However, before 2010 or so, I did still get quite bad sunburns. I think pufa was still detoxing through my skin, even though I wasn't eating it. In 2007 I remember thinking that a summer camping trip in the desert would be no trouble for my skin, since I was eating such low pufa...but one side of my face still has burn effects from that trip.

So, be careful in the sun this summer, if Ed McMahon hasn't shown up at your house yet with Dr. P. (My own certificate got revoked, cause I fell off the wagon...) :/

oxidation_is_normal · May 28, 2015

tara said:
oxidation_is_normal said:

Some pretty sad stuff in this thread. If you're gonna challenge basic science get yourself some damn sources. Tanning is a well-known reaction. You can't eat vitamin D and affect your tanning; these are separate. If the sun is beaming down at you all day and you haven't evolved to build houses yet, then you need melanin to shield cells from the sun.

Click to expand...

I'm all in favour of basic science explanations, when they do a good job of explaining the available data.
So what's your scientific explanation for the changes people have described above?
Does 'basic science' have an explanation for why some people's ability/propensity to burn or tan can change?
(Or has 'basic science' not yet got around to investigating this very thoroughly yet)?

Yes, science is adequately explaining why melanin is produced and how vitamin D is produced. As far as melanin goes, it is pretty straight forward that people with less burn more easily and people with more burn less easily. People are proposing here that the affects of UVB on cholesterol - which creates Vitamin D - is stopping people from burning. If you're gonna propose a scientific mechanism from something you think you've felt, then you need to provide references.

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4 years of Pufa Detox

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