Sunmountain's Log

Whole blood serotonin test at LEF for $66 special. It's $300 everywhere else. I had it done today. Enzyme and cortisol labs Monday.

Quick update:

Did the 3-day gelatin protocol. Midway started getting ammonia symptoms: lots of stiffness all over. Also incomplete urination, insomnia. Increased HCL, got a bit of stomach pain, backed off to lower dosage HCL. After gelatin protocol, I added more protein (1-2 packets of gelatin per day plus Nancy's greek yogurt "honey" flavor with 23g protein per small cup plus protein lunch) and continued HCL. More stiffness. Finally backed off gelatin and Nancy's altogether, and stiffness improved. But not gone altogether, and varies mild to moderate. I can handle farmer cheese fine as I had a good helping one evening with HCL and did fine.

Haidut suggested maybe add protease. I'll wait till enzyme labs are over.

After adding HCL, I suddenly got cold feet for a few evenings. Very strange. I'd been congratulating myself for being so warm so far. Also got diarrhea a few days, but the kind along with constipation that felt good to void.

I'm beginning to understand the bloating and fatigue a bit more. My protein digestion is compromised, so my body has been catabolizing itself. Hence the fatigue. One flight stairs and my legs hurt. I've had low back stiffness now for several months; maybe that's related to the muscle catabolism.

I've now started back on Haidut's simple amino formula (I had taken it inconsistently before). I have it with breakfast to balance all the sugar. Then I have at least one protein meal a day (either lunch or dinner) and HCL with it (no gelatin or Nancy). I'm trying to keep the second meal low or no protein, and wondering if I should take HCL or just enzymes with it.

The bloating is in part sibo and in part lack of stomach acid and enzymes. Food was passing undigested through stomach and intestines, which caused sibo. I think the sibo will not go away on its own, though digesting food with acid and enzymes may help not have it recur once it is killed off.

I re-read the post between Haidut and Gbolduev, where G is going on about the pancreas. I seem to remember Haidut saying that it's not understood why protein metabolism declines with age, and that there doesn't seem a way to prevent it (correct me please if I'm wrong). That was a bit depressing. I'm trying to learn to how to jump start protein metabolism again. If anyone has additional insights, please post. Also for the stiffness; ceylon is not helping as much as it did before (unless maybe I increase it a lot, which I haven't yet).

sunmountain said:

post 114184 I seem to remember Haidut saying that it's not understood why protein metabolism declines with age, and that there doesn't seem a way to prevent it (correct me please if I'm wrong). That was a bit depressing. I'm trying to learn to how to jump start protein metabolism again.

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I'm pretty sure you are not yet that advanced in age that you can't repair the situation! Are you still able to eat enough in general to help your body heal? If so I wonder if the muscle pain could be muscles repairing instead of catabolizing? Just thought I'd mention that as a possibility.

Hi Blossom, I'm eating enough, even though gastroparesis hinders it sometimes. I just don't understand WHY there is so much stiffness sometimes after I take HCL with a protein meal. Whereas if I don't take HCL, then there is not the stiffness, but the food doesn't digest.

WHY??

Tonight I ate chicken and rice with a few veggies. Started to bloat suddenly a lot; took HCL. Lots of stiffness today, low back pain, dizziness, got tired standing maybe 20 minutes on my feet. Feet hurt too.

I'm supposed to fly out Wednesday, and it's a loooooong flight. I have no idea how I'll make it with this much stiffness and fatigue like tonight. Though it's not always this bad.

Hi Sunmountain, I wonder whether your lower back pain is caused by stressed kidneys. You could try if it becomes better when you ingest a little more sodium and magnesium. I would definitely try potato juice soup for a couple of days. Do you do bag-breathing or something similar?

Ray Peat was asked about protein and kidneys in the radio interview KMUD - Longevity, 2014 at ~27min mark (transcription).

I think taurine might be helpful with your digestion too. How was your experience with it?

Taurine dramatically improves protein utilization from food

Hi Giraffe,

I am quite confused. First off, what is the difference between ammonia, lactate, NO? In terms of symptoms and causes. Searching the forum hasn't helped because there is no comparison and whether they are connected.

Second, I'm eating salt to taste, which is quite a lot. I've held off magnesium because I wonder if it would cause problems since I have low stomach acid? Would it? Because otherwise I could supplement it.

I can make pototo water (slicing and boiling) and drink that. I am making that now.

Thanks for the link to kmud. I read the transcript where Dr. Peat talks about keto acid and ammonia. I'll drink potato water at least until Wed when I fly.

I am also stopping HCL today. I am thinking maybe the HCL is breaking the food down, but it's not getting digested for which enzymes might be needed, which is what Haidut suggested.

A few days ago, I stopped the 30mg MB that I took for several weeks, to give myself a break. I may resume it in another week or two. I think MB knocks down NO? That's also why I asked that question at the top of this post. I felt good on the MB.

I had tried taurine many months ago and did not feel any difference. I don't think I have time to order it now, though I'll look into it.

Thank you!

sunmountain said:

post 114424

I am quite confused. First off, what is the difference between ammonia, lactate, NO? In terms of symptoms and causes.

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I don't have a very full understanding of these, but I think ammonia arises from protein metabolism (it's a nitrogen compound) and lactic acid arises from glycolysis - carbohydrate energy metabolism.

We can handle asome level of ammonia fine, but if it get too high there's something amiss.

Ideally cells use glucose and oxygen and produce enery and CO2 (oxidation). Various things can interfere with oxidation of glucose and - eg stress from more strenuous physical exercise than the oxidation process can keep up with, low CO2 from low metabolism, hyperventilation, cancer or other interference - and then the cells switch to glycolysis. Glycolisis producing lactic acid means t is not producing as much CO2 as one might want , so can presumably get into a bit of a reinforcing cycle.

Lots of things affect NO and I don't have a picture of all of that.

Symptoms of high lactic acid can include sore muscles, and no doubt other signs, but I don't know how to tell. Probably reduced energy?

Hopefully someone else can fill in more.

sunmountain said:

post 114424 Second, I'm eating salt to taste, which is quite a lot. I've held off magnesium because I wonder if it would cause problems since I have low stomach acid? Would it? Because otherwise I could supplement it.

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Magnesium will slow gastric emptying, but probably only when taken around the time you eat.

tara said:

post 114473 Hopefully someone else can fill in more.

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Lactic acid can trigger ammonia and vice versa. Increasing CO2 can help to stop this, as can magnesium or sodium among other. The production of urea from ammonia needs CO2.

RP: And one of the ways that CO2 is working – one of dozens of different beneficial effects -­ is it combines with the ammonia, which is produced by stress and protein metabolism, and in combining with the ammonia it stops the stimulation of the formation of lactic acid -­ ammonia accelerates the formation of lactic acid -­ so CO2 is directly turning off the production of lactic acid.

HD: And, lactic acid is the thing we feel when we exercise and our muscles cramp?

RP: Yeah, and it triggers release of a whole series of mediators of inflammation and also of fibrosis.

KMUD Herb Doctors - Altitude July 2013

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Posting from South Asia:

Been here about two weeks; another week before return. After arrival, constipation went out of control; cascara barely working at higher doses. Gastroparesis out of control. Nausea after eating; dizziness a lot. Started taking "Liv 52" syrup by Himalaya for liver. It has large number clinical studies behind it and recently adopted in Switzerland. After a few days, the nausea went away. Dizziness less often.

After much difficulty with constipation and cascara not working, stopped cascara and started Triphala, another Ayurvedic GI formula. At maximum dose, it is helping with BM's, and today two full poops this morning. It may also help gastroparesis a bit, as well as appetite.

Appetite is good despite gastroparesis. Eating traditional food: rice, lentils, farmer cheese, veggies, bread. Unfortunately cooked in pufa, though I brought CO and gave to cook. But home food is low fat I think, so some mercy there. Eating like a pig nicely. Don't think weight has increased as clothes still fit. Will check upon return. Also continuing potato protein broth daily, and fresh OJ daily.

Before leaving US, I did number of labs. Digestive enzymes ok, with lipase low end of range, which might be because I was very low fat in US for a while? Pancreatic elastase high.
Pancreatic elastase-1 is > 500 mcg/g (Normal: >200 mcg/g)
Cortisol serum 5:20 PM 6.4 ug/dL (Ref 7-9am 6.0-26.0 mcg/dL; 4-6pm 4.0-18.0 mcg/dL)
Cortisol 9:49 AM 13.0 ug/dL
Lipase 16 U/L (ref. 16-63 U/L)
Amylase 56 U/L (ref 28-100 U/L)
Whole blood serotonin high at 277.

Stomach is MAXIMUM bloated all the time. It used to deflate a bit after pooping, but no more. It's inflated MAX ALL THE TIME. Decided to again do H Pylori stool test; results Monday.

Can gastroparesis make stomach max bloat ALL the time? Pooping is much better with Triphala, liver is better I think, food is getting digested, sleep is good. Lower back pain/stiffness a bit better but still there. No other muscle stiffness or joint pain. Can walk about half hour then get tired. Last two mornings woke up very tired, which improved later in morning.

Returned home a couple of days ago. Visited Ayurvedic clinic again before leaving and got a month's supply. This stuff is definitely helping. I poop daily at or near capacity. Gastroparesis still bad, but I'm hopeful.

The nice thing about Ayurvedic formulas is they improve appetite. So in spite of gastroparesis I can eat to appetite. I now understand that more than anything it was eating a lot over the past 3 weeks that helped the fatigue and muscle/joint aches. Also hair falling -- it is much less, almost normal. In spite of my best efforts while I was home, I was not eating enough as evidenced by huge improvement in past 3 weeks in fatigue/aches while overseas.

I think restricting foods even with the good motive of peating was not serving me while here. I let all that go while overseas and ate traditional food. With some important changes, however. I continued daily potato protein broth and fresh OJ and several cups coffee. I squirted honey in my my mouth as needed when my blood sugar ran low. I couldn't do much about pufa there, but I can take care of that now that I'm back home. I took only thyroid as supplement in addition to Ayurvedic formulas.

One day there while feeling dizzy, I checked my blood sugar with father's pen. It was 73. I realized then that the dizziness I'd been feeling for months was low blood sugar. I'm hoping that better liver function with Liv 52 might improve blood sugar.

Before leaving, I also met with the homeopath, mainly because my family was bugging me to. I started on those meds just before leaving. It's mainly for mood which was running low while home in the US. With homeopathy, sometimes symptoms worsen before improving. Either that or it was jet lag, but yesterday I felt pretty low. I called the doc from here, and he suggested trying it another couple days. Yesterday I also felt some symptoms that might be estrogen -- not peeing enough, low back stiffness which had gone away overseas. I started back on progest-e, and it helped the peeing and low back. So this med/therapy needs careful monitoring.

Happy New Year, Forum! Here's wishing the gift of health for all of us.

Edit: H Pylori stool antigen came negative...again. Did this test in South Asia. The first time was here and negative.

I also realize now that the gastroparesis had been there even before I left the US. It became obvious and urgent only when I started eating a lot more to appetite while overseas.

My theory now is that the really bad gastroparesis and bloating and constipation while in South Asia that started AFTER I started eating A LOT has to do with recovery from ED, a la Youreatopia.

Since the death of H Pylori last summer, the continuation of bloating and constipation and gastroparesis was probably because I was still not eating enough.

So maybe now my body is finally "recovering."

My hair has stopped falling. The fatigue and aches are gone. BUT I don't feel ready or energetic enough yet to exercise, so maybe the body is still rebuilding. Since returning to the US, my appetite seems slightly decreased, probably because I have to cook myself. I am cooking things that I enjoy eating, so hopefully it will pick up again.

The gastroparesis is a bit better. I can eat large meals without extra bloat.

My poop is more regular. I go first thing in the morning. It is perfectly formed. BUT I think I still don't have complete elimination, though most of it exits. I'm consulting with the Ayurvedic doctor to see if it's a matter of time or something else to improve it further.

I'm continuing with the Ayurvedic formulas and thyroid and progest-e a few times a week.

I THINK my bloat is a bit less overall.

I do feel like I'm recovering. In another month or two, I'll check liver enzymes again.

sunmountain said:

post 119620

I do feel like I'm recovering. In another month or two, I'll check liver enzymes again.

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It warms my heart to read that you feel like you are recovering sunmountain!

Thanks, Blossom! The support I have gotten here and continue to get is essential to my recovery!

Not much new to report. Mainly just EATING these days. Sometimes massive amounts compared to before. I don't know if I've put on weight as my scale is broken but I'm still fitting the same into my clothes. They are not tight or anything yet.

I'm eating just about everything. I am careful only about pufa by eating at home, though I do eat lentils more often. Today I ate out the first time since my return from overseas. A chipotle burrito that went down easy, followed by half milk half coffee at home with sugar and honey. Yum.

I looove sweet milky coffee and have several cups a day.

Another amendment to the traditional foods menu is preparing and eating a moderate amount of farmer cheese nearly every day. This is an amendment because growing up we ate it only occasionally. I have no difficulty digesting this amount now.

The gastroparesis is so much better. I can eat a big meal and don't expand any more than I was before the meal.

The bloat is still there as constipation is slower to improve. Although there was a run of several days where I had two good poops a day, which brought the bloating down a lot. Then yesterday I slowed down again and the bloat increased.

My muscles are good now. As in I HAVE muscles!

My joints however are slower to improve. The other day I walked downhill and my left knee ached. I also badly sprained my neck a week ago while sleeping and finally went to a physical therapist who said my upper spine is a bit locked or something. I wonder if the joint issues are due to starch and leaky gut. I do think however that the Ayurvedic formulas are doing wonders and over time will probably heal the leaky gut too, if it is that.

Other than the walk the other day, and once a 20 minute gentle walk on the treadmill, I have not felt like exercising yet.

sunmountain said:

My muscles are good now. As in I HAVE muscles!

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That's great! I've been getting muscles back recently too without exercise! I think our body has it's own agenda when it comes to prioritizing repairs but there is no doubt that it's food that makes it all possible. Muscles returning can only be a sign of good things happening and positive changes to come.

Glad you're doing so much better, SM.

sunmountain said:

My muscles are good now. As in I HAVE muscles!

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:)

sunmountain said:

Other than the walk the other day, and once a 20 minute gentle walk on the treadmill, I have not felt like exercising yet.

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In my experience, a little walking can make a difference to keeping things moving. Esp. with mouth shut and some restraint on breathing. Might or might not not be relevant for you.

YAY!!! It's so wonderful to read of your continued improvements, D. I think it's great how you're allowing yourself to eat freely and are now able to eat more without bloating more. And the milk! To think you couldn't even tolerate it before and now you're having several cups a day of milky coffee. Woo-hoo!

I'm a bit biased on this one, but the best part is knowing you've been able to get back out there for walks again. That to me is quite an accomplishment. Now that you got muscles back and are more mobile, those mountains have one very strong lady coming for them.

I'm not sure if you remember when Gloria Estefan's tour bus had that terrible accident and she suffered major spinal injuries and had to fight her way back? Anyhow, I was around 10 at the time and I remember watching her first performance since the accident when she appeared on the AMA's singing Coming Out of the Dark and I often think about what she overcame and how inspiring it was to see her standing on stage again. You inspire me like that. :)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SzO11KQLskM

Thanks, ladies!

I'm snowed in in the mid-Atlantic...great time to catch up on posts and emails and phone calls. Still have electricity, thank goodness, which makes all the difference.

Got on the treadmill again today, 30 mins fast walking, and about two minutes actual running. At a very slight incline too. I'm hoping if I hop around enough that the gut will respond to gravity more and the poop will move downward...

Yeah, that constipation. Taking the Ayurvedic formula makes me go two poops, but stomach still sticking out so I know it's still backed up.

That's my main problem now -- constipation -- and the low back pain that may be related to it.

No gastroparesis. Eating a ton took care of that.

Muscles feel great on the treadmill. Question: Is there a quick way to reduce the lactic acid after a workout?

Thanks, Jennifer, for the link to Estefan's beautiful song! It reminded me that there are so many ways out of a hole. While I'm waiting for nutrition to help my joints/bones, I can do targeted exercise to ease the pain along my spine. I've been seeing a physical therapist due to a bad neck sprain two weeks ago, so will continue that and focus on the spine. I'm also doing a couple yoga poses for low back pain.

The milky coffee is half milk. The jury is still out on the increased milk. I wish, I pray, but don't know yet. I have in mind your experience, Jennifer!

I've added back two other supplements. In addition to thyroid and progest-e, I'm taking vit E and K. I suppose that means I should add back A and D too, though I don't know about the right proportions. I'm taking one capsule Unique E and 15 drops K (will take about two weeks). Eventually I'll switch to Haidut after these bottles are over. I think my liver is doing much better, thanks to Himalaya's Livercare and lots of coffee.

I put a new battery in the weighing scale. I was 125 when I left for India, and am 128.5 now, which was what I was before the 125. I think I had dropped to 125 cuz I wasn't eating enough. I don't think 128 is my set point, but the set point won't come till later I guess. I think it's pretty good that I gained only 3 lbs after eating massively for a month! Does that mean my liver is finally working??

This morning my temp was 97.2 and pulse 88. I think my pulse might be running high in general.

Adding: The dizziness I was feeling for months is now much less. In the past couple of weeks, I felt it once when I was hurrying too much in the morning, and once after the treadmill.

My go to after a long hike was soaking my feet in an Epsom salt bath. The theory is that the salt draws out the lactic acid through the feet.

I'm impressed by your continued attempts at movement. Other than maybe 20 minutes a day of dancing and leisurely walking around the house while reading, I'm really lazy. I'll probably die my first day back out on the trails. Gosh, how depressing would that be after getting this far?

For the constipation, have you tried pears? They're known for their expelling effects in RBTI and seemed to work well for me. Also sweet corn seemed to work for me, too.

I'll keep all my phalanges crossed that the milk works out for you. :)

Thanks, Jennifer! I haven't felt the lactic acid since the initial walking, so that must be a good sign. But I will do the foot bath in Epsom next time I feel it. I've also added pears to my diet and wonder why I wasn't eating them before!

The main issue remaining now is constipation and associated back pain and stomach bloat. Yesterday the thought occurred to me that I might have developed lazy bowel. I was on cascara nearly 1.5 years before it stopped working for me, or not as effectively. This December I switched to Triphala, a very old Ayurvedic formula, which is helping but still not complete evac.

The problem is that I no longer feel contractions in my bowel that used to tell me that I need to go. It feels very strange. I might just sit on the toilet to pee and realize that if I push slightly, some poop might come out. I do feel some pressure when I go in the mornings daily, but not pressure in the old way. All this has been going on for some time.

So I'm wondering if I should simply stop everything and see how bad it gets. Or try prune juice. Or take something bulking like slippery elm. I eat about a cup of veggies daily, so there's fiber. I try to walk daily even if it's just on the treadmill. I'm also wondering if the moderate amount of farmer cheese that I eat daily along with veggies, plus other lunch cheese might be contributing to constipation.

The other issue is mood. I ought to be feeling much happier with all the positive changes, but in part the constipation is still a major problem. Though I do feel much gratitude to be so recovered to the extent I am, which is a lot. I wish I could try something like lisuride but which would not constipate me further, as I recognize some patterns of thinking and acting that no longer serve me but remain.

I'm still scheduled for the smartpill in February, though I'm wondering now if I shouldn't get a colonoscopy first.

I'm glad you are feeling so much better sunmountain. For me the lingering on and off gastroparesis and slow bowel motility is over all improving but I notice stress or slight undereating (usually from stress and losing my appetite) will throw things off again temporarily. We are close in age, of a similar lowish calorie background and I've been at this about 2 and 1/2 years and don't think you are too far off from that time frame so I figured I'd share my experience. I think it might just take more time than we expected especially if the enteric nervous system is remyelinating. No one really wants it to take so much time but sometimes it just does. So I guess if you get all the tests done and they come back normal then you may just be in a similar situation. I think the mood stuff seems connected to the gut function but I'm happy to see a progression towards improvement (even if I sometimes get impatient) rather than further decline. Maybe your experience is nothing like mine but I figured it couldn't hurt to throw it out there for your consideration.