Sunmountain's Log

Ok, so I caved in to my sister and started high potency probiotics about a week ago. Since Peating I've never taken them.

The main thing is, they are helping me poop.

My biome is very up and down right now as it adjusts to the probiotics. But I get at least two poops a day, sometimes more. Once it was diarrhea-like. The elimination is much more due to the probiotic.

I'm still high dosing (8-12 capsules daily) of Mg Gly. I take one tablet Triphala at bedtime. I don't want to take more Triphala because it does have some stimulant action (very mild with only one tablet), and staying on Cascara daily two years was not a good idea for me. Since the Mg plus Triphala is still not cutting it, I've resorted to probiotic. I was actually rather surprised to see the result.

So since I started it, I've experienced some achiness (endotoxin no doubt; today I'm fine), some appetite reduction (for two days, but today I'm eating everything in sight), some increased edema (but today is fine). Also, though it's causing me to poop, the stomach bloat is unaffected.

I do understand the Peatarian perspective on probiotics. Probiotics are increasing serotonin in the stomach which is causing poop to move. Maybe even estrogen.

Dr. Peat would recommend antibiotics. But here's the issue. I DID take double antibiotics after H Pylori, and while they killed HP, they did nothing for the constipation/SIBO. Given the severity of constipation, I'm not sure a round of low-dose mino would cut it. I do have a two-week course of Rifaximin lying with me still. But I suppose I'm afraid to take it in case it causes more problems than solving them.

Of course, the probiotics might also cause more problems. I do remember Peatarian saying something about migraines when she took them.

OTOH I'm getting a bit worried about what if anything might be going on inside my gut and colon after two years of constipation. Hopefully the emodin in cascara helped against things like diverticulosis (I've no idea if it does or doesn't) or polyps or whatever else can happen inside. But I stopped cascara in December, and since then poop has mostly been sitting inside with very slow transit, and that can't be good for the gut/colon.

So, I'm going to continue the probiotic for now, while monitoring things best as I can, physical and mental and emotional. I don't view this as a long term thing.

Thoughts, anyone?

I think it's mainly the lactic acid producing strains of probiotics that can be an extra burden to the system and bother some people. Hopefully if anyone knows more they will respond.

Here's a question. If someone wants to come off birth control pill, can they use progest-e to maybe ease the transition, and if so how?

My daughter went on it a few months ago. Unrelatedly, she's also been increasingly getting UTI's. She's been refusing to take any supplements. She's now got breakthrough bleeding, fever, and post-nasal, and is considering getting off the pill. There's cancer history in my family from estrogen supplementation. I've been talking to her about all this since she started.

She's also massively undereating. While home on spring break, she ate a tiny amount about one meal a day or two small meals. I told her about my undereating and she sees my health issues.

I don't know if the pill also affects appetite, or it's social signals, or what. I'm trying to make her aware.

sunmountain said:

Unrelatedly, she's also been increasingly getting UTI's. She's been refusing to take any supplements.

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Would she drink cranberry juice? This helped for me.

sunmountain said:

She's also massively undereating. While home on spring break, she ate a tiny amount about one meal a day or two small meals. I told her about my undereating and she sees my health issues.

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Good that she's got you thinking about this with her.

Do you she's operating on it's about fat-phobia, or more about loss of appetite? If it's about socially reinforced fat-phobia, would she be open to the bit about undereating promoting fat-storage adaptations?

Fever sounds like infection, and that can knock appetite out till recovered - could it just be a temporary response to that?
Carrot salad, possibly charcoal to reduce the load while fighting infection?

I'm not sure if it's fat phobia or something suppressing appetite. It might be both. She had started exercising last year with a friend at the gym. She hasn't done that for a while now, mainly I think because she doesn't have the energy. I talked with her about exercising while undereating, too.

Mostly it seemed she brushed off what I was saying, but she said today that she's been talking to her boyfriend about the dangers of the pill and the family history. Parents have so much influence with kids, it's scary. I'm incredibly thankful that she was listening in spite of herself. She says her boyfriend is very supportive about getting off the pill, and I'm thankful for that too.

For the UTI, she tried cranberry pills in the past. I've now given her Himalaya's UriCare that I'm quite confident about.

Carrot salad will be difficult in a dorm, but charcoal is a distinct possibility. I could have it shipped to her, if she's open to it.

sunmountain said:

For the UTI, she tried cranberry pills in the past. I've now given her Himalaya's UriCare that I'm quite confident about.

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I did not find cranberry juice adequate to stopping an infection, but good as a daily preventative. I'd be in for antibiotics pretty quick once an infection took hold. (Tried cranberry and other herbal approach once and got a severe infection, really sick. )

sunmountain said:

Carrot salad will be difficult in a dorm, but charcoal is a distinct possibility. I could have it shipped to her, if she's open to it.

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What about just buying a bag of carrots, and munching on one every day?

sunmountain said:

Mostly it seemed she brushed off what I was saying, but she said today that she's been talking to her boyfriend about the dangers of the pill and the family history. Parents have so much influence with kids, it's scary. I'm incredibly thankful that she was listening in spite of herself. She says her boyfriend is very supportive about getting off the pill, and I'm thankful for that too.

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Yeah, hard to know how much is going in when they don't appear to be receptive.

Good idea, I'll mention the carrots.

I mentioned the LiverCare to her as daily preventative. I've emphasized the importance of antibiotics once she knows there's an infection. I absolutely agree herbals are too risky once infected.

Thanks

I'm ending the probiotic experiment today.

I'm ending it because it's increasing the bloat. My stomach is huge. I'm also more tired, which could be the lactic acid burden as Blossom explained.

It's helping to go 2-3 times a day, though even with that it's probably only 80% elimination which is way better than without it though.

So tomorrow it's back to being more constipated but maybe stomach less huge and maybe less tired.

I do think though that all the food I'm eating is basically feeding the bastard bacteria and not me.

I'm also scheduling smartpill. I think it will be helpful to know what's going on inside. It measures pH also, so maybe I'll know if stomach acid is indeed low or not. I had gone up to 6 HCL with no effect, which was puzzling. I had my enzymes checked and they were normal. It will be interesting to see what the smartpill shows.

Have you ever tried an enema? I tried a coffee enema out of curiosity. It felt really great afterwards (!): the gut was happily relaxed, some tension around the ribcage gone and ... it empties you big time.

Peat mentioned hypertonic salt solution:

Ray Peat said:

Several decades ago, it was recognized (Orr, et al., 1931) that hypertonic saline, given intravenously, would stimulate intestinal peristalsis, and could be used to treat paralytic ileus and intestinal obstruction. [...] Using a hypertonic salt solution as an enema can have the same beneficial effect on the intestine as the intravenous treatment.

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Water: swelling, tension, pain, fatigue, aging

Thanks, Giraffe. I've never done an enema. A lot has happened since my last post.

1. The probiotics made the stomach bloat and lower GI problems impossible. I also noticed that food was just sitting in the top of the stomach where it felt tight and somewhat painful. Out of desperation, I started a round of Rifaximin, 3x550 daily since Monday. Today I dropped down to 2x550 daily as it felt too much with 3. I hope I don't live to regret doing that.

I remembered that the last breath test in December showed zero methane and all of it hydrogen, so I knew that Rifaximin is indicated for this type SIBO. I counted my pills and had 11 days worth. I had read of SIBO protocols of 7 or 14 days at this dose. The Rifaximin immediately took care of the lower stuff like gas. Last night I felt itching, so took a neem pill. Would have taken oregano oil, but had given it to my daughter. The Neem was hard on my kidneys and caused the peeing/thirst cycle again for a few hours. I will not take Neem again while kidneys are stressed. It did take care of the itching.

The stomach is still bloated due to motility and perhaps digestion. So I ordered and got today Iberogast, a German preparation for stomach issues including motility. It has licorice (non DGL) listed among the later ingredients, which is of concern due to my kidneys and edema. So on the one hand I really want to try it based on the large number of positive reviews but afraid because of the licorice. So started tonight at half dose. I may take it only twice a day instead of three times, and rely on Triphala for the third. I am also taking pge for edema, and Mg for softening stool.

For some reason, the gastroparesis came back, possibly worse after the probiotics. Constipation is a bit better after Rifaximin as the Triphala is working better I think.

I stopped all other supplements/Ayurvedic formulas after starting Rifaximin, except Triphala one tablet at night.

After one week of the Rifaximin, the plan is to switch to a herbal prep called Candibactin A/R and B/R which were studied to show the same or better as Rifaximin. I believe this is what my GI prescribes. (I'm scheduled for smartpill later this month.) Hopefully the Candibactin will keep the SIBO at bay longer while I attempt to get the motility going, and try out digestive enzymes too. B/R is I think berberine and A/R is antifungals like OO and thyme oil etc. If edema worsens with Iberogast (I PRAY it doesn't), then there's ginger.

(I seem to remember Moss suggested some formula up thread for something...I need to dig it out. It might have been for constipation.)

I have been feeling tired for a week or two, suggesting malabsorption most likely. Last night I sprained my neck, and this evening I've some pain in left arm (hopefully not heart related). I wonder if something is causing depletion of potassium or something else. I've been eating ripe bananas and potatoes as usual.

I did also take a bromelain 500mg with dinner tonight.

2. As if all this wasn't enough, my thyroid U/S came back. Doc said overactive thyroid and is shipping me to endocrinologist team which can't see me till July. Here's the result:

Findings:
The echotexture of the thyroid gland is mildly heterogeneous throughout with increase in vascularity, which can be seen in thyroiditis. The right thyroid lobe measures 3.4 cm x 1.3 cm x 1.1 cm. There is a 0.8 x 0.4 x 0.6 cm echogenic nodule present in the mid gland. No abnormal vascularity is identified. The left thyroid lobe measures 3.2 cm x 0.8 cm x 1.3 cm. There are no focal nodules present. The isthmus measures 0.1 cm.

IMPRESSION:
1. Diffusely heterogeneous and hypervascular thyroid gland, a finding that can be seen in thyroiditis.
2. Nonsuspicious solid echogenic subcentimeter right mid thyroid nodule

I don't know what all this means except that there may be some inflammation of the thyroid. It may have happened because the Liver formula I took had something in it affecting thyroid. I took the formula while on cynoplus. I stopped both about 10 days ago. Will repeat labs in a month without these meds.

I'm a bit confused about why there should be any inflammation if that is what it is. In Peat world it's a good thing to get TSH to zero, which is what my last labs showed. So why do I have inflammation?

So that's where I am. The left arm is hurting near the wrist and lower arm mainly. I can't figure out what might be causing it and the neck sprain last night. I did reduce Mg over last few days from 12 caps daily to about 4-6 caps. I did read somewhere I think that thyroiditis can cause pain in neck but don't know if that's it.

I'm a bit afraid doing all this on my own but the SIBO/gastroparesis was out of control after the probiotics.

I called a friend last night and she suggested ER given where the pain was, arm and neck. That's where I still am. They did chest and neck x-Ray which came clean. Ekg clean. Now they want to do echocardiogram.

Arm pain a bit better, but neck still bad and headache in addition.

Just got home from ER. Hope I never have to go there again. Today they did echocardiogram which was normal. Lots of bloodwork, all normal, including electrolytes.

All they came up with was that in the neck X-ray yesterday, some degenerative action between a couple vertebrae or discs. I suppose this could cause neck pain/strain? Which could radiate all the way down into the left arm?

I've never had such pain in the arm before, and then combined with neck pain.

In spite of eating a mountain of food, there's malnutrition going on. Food isn't getting broken down in stomach, and/or emptied normally, and maybe not absorbed in intestine, leading to malnutrition. Hopefully the smartpill in a couple of weeks will shed some light.

In the meantime, I'll finish the round of Rifaximin, and continue to try Iberogast. Then switch to Candibactin and maybe add more motility agents. The immediate problem I'm tackling now is gastric emptying, as constipation is not any worse and maybe a bit better since Rifaximin.

Thinking of you sunmountain. I've had referred pain in my shoulder, chest and neck from gut issues before. It's was confusing at first because it seems unrelated but it happened enough that I finally figured out the connection in my own situation. Sorry you had to endure the ER. I wound up in the hospital from a car wreck recently so I can sympathize.

Doesn't sound like any fun.

sunmountain said:

All they came up with was that in the neck X-ray yesterday, some degenerative action between a couple vertebrae or discs. I suppose this could cause neck pain/strain? Which could radiate all the way down into the left arm?

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I imagine that's possible. Pain can refer in various ways - the pain is not always where the damage is. Even if there is some organic damage in the neck, there may be things that can help reduce the pain. Maybe the neck xray could give a physio or osteo a bit more info to work with?

Sorry to hear about your accident, Blossom. I hope you were not injured.

Much again since last post. I went on Monday for acupuncture where he put electrical stimulation on spleen and GB meridians. Tuesday night I had a pain in the spleen area. Also chest pain/burning again. The spleen area pain has not returned. I started slippery elm by the teaspoon 2-3 times/day, and it has pretty much resolved the chest pain. So it would seem gastritis/GERD, also given that my stomach is very bloated/distended. I plan to add marshmallow root.

An added benefit of the SE is good BM in the morning.

What has not gone away is the neck pain since the ER. It spasms into back sometimes, and yesterday and today I have headache, which is very unusual for me. This morning a feeling of heaviness all over, and even a slight spasming at back of throat. I'm thinking something neuromuscular is going on. I've let the doc know, and she might suggest a specialist, maybe neurologist?

I know there's a number of folks on the forum who have neuromuscular issues. Is there anything that might help me at this juncture since it is relatively new?

The slippery elm is working like a laxative. The constipation is so much better because of it. I'm just concerned about getting dependent on a laxative again after I stopped responding to Cascara.

sunmountain said:

What has not gone away is the neck pain since the ER. It spasms into back sometimes, and yesterday and today I have headache, which is very unusual for me. This morning a feeling of heaviness all over, and even a slight spasming at back of throat. I'm thinking something neuromuscular is going on. I've let the doc know, and she might suggest a specialist, maybe neurologist?

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I don't know if it would make any difference for what's going on with you, but I've had instant improvement in a couple of peripheral cramps and an extra tight shoulder/neck muscle near a recovering injury recently by just slopping on a little Mg oil (MgCl). I don't use it regularly because it bothers my skin if I overdo it, but I wanted to try something quick and topical, and it helped immediately.

Thanks, Tara. I do have Mg oil and will rub it tonight. I think though that the neck pain is degenerative disc disease, as the ER doctors diagnosed via neck X-Ray. C3-4 and C5-6, I believe. For that, I guess PT will be helpful. I had been going to the PT but stopped a couple of months ago after I felt better. Today is day 4 with a headache due to the neck pain. I'm trying not to take Naproxen due to gastritis.

The SE and marshmallow root continue to help keep the GERD at bay. Hopefully they are helping the gastritis also. Today I decreased the SE, so it had less of an effect on constipation. I will increase it again tomororw. I do hope I don't become dependent on it.

Today I went walking with a friend. I haven't walked for a while and was scarily out of breath at a slow pace on level ground.

I went to the hospital this afternoon and got copies of all the work they did. My ALP keeps going up! Now it is at 159. I guess bile related? The other two liver enzymes are fine. I'll start eating beets, or should I get beet capsules. I tried the juice in the past and didn't like it.

My albumin was low in the ER, though in previous labs it was within range. I no longer eat farmer cheese due to stressed kidneys, does that have something to do with it.

Due to gastritis, I'm cut out coffee for now.

Due to fatty liver, I feel I should reduce sugar intake. I am not able to reduce starch as otherwise I don't eat enough. I've tried that for two years.

I drink apple juice during the day, and at night when I'm thirsty. Until recently, also drank coffee with sugar. What shall I drink now if I cut out apple juice due to NAFLD? Any suggestions?

The brain fog has been pretty bad lately, but through it I realized this morning that other than the gastritis, the assorted aches and pains and tiredness lately might be due to lack of thyroid.

About a month ago, I stopped thyroid, and a week later, stopped Livercare, because I was getting hyper symptoms and because my TSH was zero and doc asked me to lay off both meds and recheck labs after a month.

However now I'm having definite low thyroid symptoms. I've been taking Shilajit which has given energy to function, but does nothing for muscles, and I know from past that I get muscle issues without thyroid.

So question is, what can I do right now until I get labs done Monday and results in few days to stop the muscle deterioration and other symptoms due to no thyroid? I'm feeling a lot of heaviness also.

I recently also stopped coffee due to GERD/gastritis.

Which other thyroid stimulants can I take that will not lower my TSH or affect gastritis but give me thyroid hormone? I've been feeling the need for eggs, so maybe order Kuinone. What else? Help me out please, the brain fog is making it hard to think. Thanks