Sunmountain's Log

Dean · Jun 4, 2015

sunmountain said:
What should I be watching out for as I navigate the medical system?

Greed, corruption, incompetence, condescension, reductionism, out-dated magazines.

sunmountain · Jun 4, 2015

I set myself up for that one! :)

I know Peat recommends minocycline, but I'm wondering if anyone can comment on Rifaximin v. mino. My thinking is that Rifaximin might be less likely to cause candida as it works mainly in the gut? Though it is harder on the liver?

I can ASK the GI for Rifaximin or mino (I have mino at home). Hopefully she won't want to give me something bad like flagyl (I won't take it).

Do GI's in general straightaway prescribe an antibiotic after a SIBO diagnosis, or do they want to do other tests, and if so, which ones?

thanks

sunmountain · Jun 4, 2015

After reading up on SIBO a bit, it says that there may be "underlying" diseases like diverticulitis, crohns, etc. But in my case the bloating started when I started eating more food last year to correct malnutrition, and switched from low carb to high carb and high protein diet.

Is it possible that SIBO can be primary and not secondary? I can tell the GI what happened from my point of view. I really don't want more tests before I first try antibiotics. I feel like a round of antibiotics might just get things straightened out.

Also does Gwyneth say anything about SIBO? I know she says that bloating is part of recovery and suggests to alleviate symptoms rather than suppress them with medicines. But it seems like SIBO is very likely to happen during refeeding, and then why not treat it? I'll go over to YE and search SIBO there.

tara · Jun 4, 2015

sunmountain said:
Also does Gwyneth say anything about SIBO? I know she says that bloating is part of recovery and suggests to alleviate symptoms rather than suppress them with medicines. But it seems like SIBO is very likely to happen during refeeding, and then why not treat it? I'll go over to YE and search SIBO there.

I don't recall Gwyneth naming SIBO specifically, but I think she does talk about energy deficiency resulting in gastroparesis and slow transit, and the digestive system taking a while to get up to full strength even after the energy input is adequate for a while, all of which I think increase the opportunity for SIBO.

I think this is consistent with Peat's views. Peat talks more about cellular energy production, and when it's inadequate, this can result in slow transit, and weak production of digestive enzymes, and all the other factors involved in efficient digestion, potential allowing SIBO to develop. The part about eating enough that Gwyneth focusses on is one of the factors that affects cellular energy production.

sunmountain · Jun 4, 2015

Thanks Tara, G talks briefly about SIBO and dysbiosis. She sort of dismisses the testing (breath, stool) due to accuracy concerns. Unless it is crohns or colitis or somesuch, her approach is to stick it out with refeeding, and she says it can take up to four years for these things to resolve.

Jennifer · Jun 4, 2015

I remember getting a very white tongue while taking Neomycin which is supposedly similar to Rifraximin. Minocycline had the opposite effect. White tongue cleared up and the teeth stayed squeaky clean all day long. My gut pain was also gone when taking the minocycline, but it returned about a month after being off it. Not sure if this will be of any help, but Ray wrote me this back in February:

"Sometimes people have a reaction to the minocycline itself; watching what happens when you stop it, you can tell whether it's helping. A different antibiotic (penicillin V K, erythromycin, or neomycin, maybe) might control bacteria without irritation."

If I remember correctly, Rifaximin isn't tough on the liver. At least, that's what my doctor told me. Oh and I had asked her about the parts per billion SIBO test when I saw her a couple weeks ago and she said you would of had to check around, so her answer wouldn't of been any help to you anyway.

Blossom · Jun 5, 2015

sunmountain said:
Thanks Tara, G talks briefly about SIBO and dysbiosis. She sort of dismisses the testing (breath, stool) due to accuracy concerns. Unless it is crohns or colitis or somesuch, her approach is to stick it out with refeeding, and she says it can take up to four years for these things to resolve.

Yay. If she is right then I guess I'm half way there. :?
Please keep us posted on the GI consult. I've never been to one so I'm not sure what you can expect. I was thinking about going to see one last fall out of desperation but I pm'd a forum member here who has successfully controlled his Crohn's disease working with Peat's ideas and he was kind enough to share with me some things he had learned. One thing that seemed quite helpful has been a very small amount of cyproheptadine with meals (0.5-1 mg). I'm SPECULATING it helps lower the histamine and serotonin in the GI tract. If I had to choose an antibiotic I personally would go with one of the Peat recommended ones if at all possible.

sunmountain · Jun 5, 2015

The GI isn't taking new patients, so my doc got me appt with him June 24.

I'm apprehensive that he will go after the sugar in my diet. I might just lie about that.

BTW, I called costco, and the cash price for Rifaximin is like $30 for 28 tablets of 300mg. Someone here had said it's expensive?

I'm also apprehensive about which antibiotic he will prescribe. I'm wondering if I should just go it myself with the mino. Part of it is what dosage to start with -- 200mg x 2 or more? Anyone?

I'm also apprehensive if he wants to do more tests. At this point, all I want is antibiotic.

I'm already taking 1mg cypro at night daily. I can take 1mg with meals. Blossom, is it possible for me to contact this member, and if not, is it possible to share some more of his experience? Did you have SIBO or some other digestive issue?

thanks

Jennifer · Jun 5, 2015

sunmountain said:
BTW, I called costco, and the cash price for Rifaximin is like $30 for 28 tablets of 300mg. Someone here had said it's expensive?

It would of cost me over $800 dollars, I think for the 28 tabs. Sorry, is the $30 with insurance. My insurance wouldn't cover most of it so that's why it would of cost me so much.

I think Ray mentioned 200mg a day as a starting dose and then slowly weening off it as symptoms improve.

sunmountain · Jun 5, 2015

Jenn, the costco price is the cash or non-insurance price. That's why I was so surprised.

Yea, that's what I read too but 200mg x 2. From scouring the net about sibo, it seems very high doses are recommended. Like 250mg x 4. :shock:

Blossom · Jun 5, 2015

My GI flare ups started in the spring of last year when some major stress hit me. My diet hadn't really changed so I couldn't blame that for the issues. I could feel the stress hormones coursing through my body after my mom almost died, I started having serious marital issues and my only daughter (who I love more than life itself) stopped talking to me for six months.

I believe stress triggered it all in my case.

I realized I had been through this before with the GI issues and each time I'd basically stop eating because that was the only thing that brought relief. I knew that wasn't an option anymore. Long story short I did what Peat recommends: perceive, think, act.
Because my symptoms were similar to Crohn's including a recurring mouth sore, high WBC's and joint pain I decided to see if this forum member might be willing to share his experience with me and he graciously did, which I'm so thankful for. I will contact him to see if he minds if I forward the information to you. I'm not sure if it will necessarily apply to your situation since you don't know if you have something beyond sibo going on. Besides the above I also had colon spasms and nausea. I've used zofran for the nausea and took an anticholinergic med intermittently for the spasms.
His approach from corresponding with Peat is really just what most/many of us already do with eating foods you can tolerate, thyroid, Progest-e (topically) and vitamin k (topically). I will pm him if you are still interested after reading all of that and see if you I can either give you his information or forward the pm's to you. My GI system isn't functioning flawlessly yet but I've managed to stay away from the GI doc so far (not that I'm encouraging you to do the same in the slightest). I felt pretty certain I would not want the conventional medical treatment for Crohn's anyway if I could avoid it but sibo is probably a different story.

sunmountain · Jun 5, 2015

Thanks for sharing your experience, Blossom. I don't think I have IBD. I know that my sibo started when I started eating more, including sugar. I know that if I eat less or cut out sugar, it will probably improve, but that's not an option for me.

It might mean, however, that I became "intolerant" to sugar. I wonder if antibiotic treatment will restore "tolerance" to sugar or not.

More recently, as documented in my log, I started having abdominal spasms, which resolved with ibuprofen and naproxen. Occasionally the spasms come back briefly, and I've needed naproxen only once since the first episode.

Sometime during this sibo year, I had diarrhea also documented in log, and thanks to Peata, it resolved with pepto. Which again points to dysbiosis as bismuth changes gut flora.

The problem is that all websites proceed with the assumption that there is underlying disease of which sibo is symptom. I don't think I have IBD or IBS, but don't know about enzymes and acid and whatnot. If I was previously starving, it makes sense that I could be deficient in these things. In that case, I suppose it might be helpful if the GI was to check the levels of these enzymes and acids, if they can be tested.

You say you used k and progest-e topically. Any reason why? And where? I take them both at the gums, in addtion to estroban which I use topically.

So perhaps it's not much use contacting your friend. But I do hope other forum members will comment, as many must have developed sibo after eating sugar if they didn't eat it before.

Jennifer · Jun 5, 2015

sunmountain said:
The problem is that all websites proceed with the assumption that there is underlying disease of which sibo is symptom. I don't think I have IBD or IBS, but don't know about enzymes and acid and whatnot. If I was previously starving, it makes sense that I could be deficient in these things. In that case, I suppose it might be helpful if the GI was to check the levels of these enzymes and acids, if they can be tested.

I think Ray has shared a similar view. SIBO is a symptom of an underlying disease...hypothyroidism?

Oh and I really need to get a membership to Costco! $30 for Rifaximin is mind boggling!

sunmountain · Jun 5, 2015

You might want to call them and check. I asked the guy to doublecheck, but maybe he was wrong. I didn't need to give my membership number; just said I was a member. Ask for pharmacy. I said can you give me price for 300mg rifaximin x 2 for 14 days. Ask for "cash" price; that's non-insurance.

Yea, I saw on the net that hypo is listed as one of the underlying causes. But what about hypo causes sibo? Would it be gut motility, decreased enzymes, etc.?

I read there's different kinds of sibo, and one kind is carb intolerance. For me, starch doesn't cause me to bloat as much as sugar does. Which is aggravating because it goes against basic Ray. Maybe I'll keep doing antibiotics until the right critters take up home in me.

But wait. If I bloat more after sugar, does that mean...yeast????????????

Blossom · Jun 5, 2015

He would use those topically to avoid unnecessarily irritating his gut since he has had IBD. I personally use Progest-e on my gums still but do use estro-ban topically like you. I'm not *certain* if he used Progest-e but we did correspond about applying it topically over the lower abdomen.
Paraphrasing Peat he did say something about people ruining their health by avoiding too many foods. I count myself as one of those people and it sounds like you might too. I suppose if there were a quick and easy way to repair this we would know so it seems like the best thing is just to continue repairing our metabolism. Sorry I don't have much input on sibo but hopefully others might. I'm assuming you've searched sibo here on the forum?

Jennifer · Jun 5, 2015

sunmountain said:
You might want to call them and check. I asked the guy to doublecheck, but maybe he was wrong. I didn't need to give my membership number; just said I was a member. Ask for pharmacy. I said can you give me price for 300mg rifaximin x 2 for 14 days. Ask for "cash" price; that's non-insurance.

Ooh...perfect! Thank you, sunmountain! :)

I'm not positive, but this is my line of thinking. Hypothyroidism causes sluggish peristalsis, which causes bacteria to proliferate and damage the intestinal lining (undereating can cause this too) and enzyme production?

Bloating after sugar due to yeast? Could be! Though, if Ray is right, feeding the yeast their preferred fuel (sugar) should prevent an overgrowth? If it were candida, while you're fixing the underlying cause, there's flowers of sulphur to help tackle the yeast?

tara · Jun 9, 2015

sunmountain said:
Yea, I saw on the net that hypo is listed as one of the underlying causes. But what about hypo causes sibo? Would it be gut motility, decreased enzymes, etc.?

I thought it was reduced cellular energy production from hypothyroid state causing both slower gut motility and reduced capacity of glands to produce all the required digestive enzymes. Everything the body does requires cellular energy, so every part of digestive function could be vulnerable. I wonder if there is also a component of lower CO2 levels reducing blood circulation to the digestive system, and leaving it less well nourished and oxygenated as well?

sunmountain · Jun 9, 2015

Thanks all! The yeast-sugar connection is a bit confusing. I do recall now that Peat says to feed the yeast or otherwise they develop the filaments. And of course yeast like to feed on sugar. All non-RP sites say to starve the yeast of sugar. I guess I tend to Peat in this; it makes more sense to feed them.

So yea, motility problems --> sibo. I'm counting the days until 6/23 when I see GI. I swear if by then he doesn't give me an antibiotic, and wants to do more tests, I will go lone ranger and take my mino. Although if the tests are for acid and enzymes, then maybe.

So the other thing is, my daughter is leaving tomorrow morning for the summer and then college. I'm having quite a bit of anxiety especially when I wake up about living alone. I think I might have some xanax lying that I'm tempted to take to tide me over for a bit. Is there anything Peaty that will have an immediate impact? I'm so anxious that my brain isn't functioning very well right now, so please forgive if I've asked this before.

sunmountain · Jun 11, 2015

Where are you all getting flowers of sulfur? I can't find a recommedation where to buy on the forum.

I've not had waterlogging lately. I realized I had not taken progest-e for a while, so went back on it after I remembered the edema and estrogen connection. Progest-e and vitamin e have helped it, I think.

sunmountain · Jun 11, 2015

I called RiteAid, Walgreens, Target pharmacies, and they don't have the FofS. Also not the health food stores.

By using this site you agree to the terms, rules, and privacy policy.

Charlie's Restoration Giveaway #2 (Entire Home EMF Mitigation & Protection Along With Personal Protection) - Click Here To Enter

Dear Carnivore Dieters, A Muscle Meat Only Diet is Extremely Healing Because it is a Low "vitamin A" Diet. This is Why it Works so Well...

Rest the rest of this post by clicking here

Sunmountain's Log

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Moderator

Member

Member

Member

Moderator

Member

Member

Member

Moderator

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Similar threads