I think coffee is hurting me

I think coffee ia hurting me

Greta said:

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96173/ http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/refined ... -2296.html

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I note this article says that it is the extraction process that sometimes involves adding in extra potentially harmful artificial chemicals, rather than the refining process. Refining can remove potentially harmful naturally occurring chemicals. Also, it recommends refined for high heat cooking, because of the higher smoke point.
If someone does not react badly to refined or unrefined, then it is probably OK for them. We are not all the same.

There is some discussion in another thread about the possible greater desirability of hydrogenated coconut oil - ie even more highly saturated than in it's natural state.

Did you read Peat's article on coconut oil?
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/coconut-oil.shtml

This forum is intended for discussing Peat's ideas, and people come here to learn about them. How about before you repeatedly assert the opposite of Peat's views, especially to a newcomer trying to learn what may be valuable to him from a Peat-inspired approach, you take some time to read Peat's ideas. If you then wish to bring some contrary viewpoints, head into the Debate area, and consider addressing what Peat actually says, and bringing some relevant evidence or reasons to support your views. Or heading into the Other Theories area.

That doesn't mean you have to accept or agree with anything Peat says, it's just about the purpose of this forum.

I think coffee ia hurting me

:1

I think coffee ia hurting me

I've read the article, he talks about unsatured seed oils, and compares them to coconut oil, but there he doesn't say a word about refined or unrefined. And yes, nearly always the refined coconut oil has chemicals, usedfor the process. Also, how could be that refined coconut oil is so cheap compared to unrefined, even if it has to go through a process?? The worst coconuts, are used to make the refined version.

I think coffee ia hurting me

Greta said:

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96263/ I've read the article, he talks about unsatured seed oils, and compares them to coconut oil, but there he doesn't say a word about refined or unrefined. And yes, nearly always the refined coconut oil has chemicals, usedfor the process. Also, how could be that refined coconut oil is so cheap compared to unrefined, even if it has to go through a process?? The worst coconuts, are used to make the refined version.

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OK, it must be elsewhere he's talked about refined and unrefined coconut oil.
I can imagine that being refined and therefore more stable, and being in much higher demand because it has been used in so many more contexts than the unrefined versions may be factors in pricing. Similar pricing patterns apply to many refined commodities, if you compare the prices of whole and white wheat flour, raw and refined white sucrose, raw and polished white rice, to name a few.

You may be right about worse coconuts used to produce refined oil, I don't know. I think Peat's point is that precisely because of it's high saturation and therefore stability, it is less damaged by processing than other oils would be. If I were using olive oil (which I seldom do because of the PUFAs), I'd consider virgin oil to be clearly preferable.

I think coffee ia hurting me

Well, the price different in part is due to the use of young coconut oils to make the unrefined version, the other in the other hand is made with "old" coconut oils, wich were stored.

I guess he prefers the refined, as the smoking point is 450 F, while the unrefined has a lower one 350 F. So there's a minor chance of oxidation of the fats. Anyway coconut oil due to the short chain fatty acids, is one of the most stable oils.

Olive virgin oil is a very good choice, if you don't use it to cook. As it suffers from oxidation easily. Also it has a shorter self live than the coconut oil, and becames racid more quickly.

I think coffee ia hurting me

tara said:

OK, it must be elsewhere he's talked about refined and unrefined coconut oil.

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RP talked about this in an interview. He mentioned that most experiments showing
benefits are done using refined oil. He also talked about using clay in traditional coconut oil
refining and clays are still used in refinement.

I was reading an article on Aflatoxin contaminants in Sri Lankan coconut oil.
They found oil from small mills had more Aflatoxin and big mills had less,
they have better refining process. Big companies can sell things at cheaper price due to
large volume of production. You can always ask the company about their refining process.

I have seen some health food store brands claiming they do not use dried copra
, the main source of Aflatoxin. But, there is no way to verify that.

Edit: Here is the exact quote from Josh Rubin Interview on saturated fat and cholesterol.

Caller: Refined coconut oil and salicylates.
RP: I recommend the completely deodorized kind, the research was always done with the filtered kind that had no odor at all. Even though it tastes really good to make ice cream or cookies or something out of the very aromatic kind. For safety in general use, because some people are allergic to the aromatic tasty things in the coconut, making it completely odorless I think is safest.

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I think coffee ia hurting me

I took finasteride and it completely wrecked my system at age 19.. no one knows how to fix it or what the problem is.

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go see dr. john chrisler or dr. eugene shippen

I think coffee ia hurting me

Here it's well explained.

http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/what-t ... conut-oil/

You can suggest that refined coconut oil is the best choice for the people who have those allergies, but it doesn't make it more healthier, also many people are allergic to lactose or casein, they aren't able to eat dairy, but it doesn't mean that dairy is bad for everybody. Only that it has allergens.

I think coffee ia hurting me

To deodorize oil aqueous vapour is used. Deodorization is only one step of the refining process. I recently had deodorized unrefined coconut oil, this was more expensive than the not deodorized oils.

I think coffee ia hurting me

It seems refined anything reduces allergens. RP mentioned doctors uses to have patients gulp a pint of H2O to check for seziure. It triggered serotonin. Ive known for while to sip/drink beverages. But after I heard that i fell off my chair. Morning 8-10oz OJ for 15min+ Then coffee 16oz over 1hr. Cream & sugar or Ice cream . Swiss Cheese.

I think coffee ia hurting me

Greta said:

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96271/ Here it's well explained.

http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/what-t ... conut-oil/

You can suggest that refined coconut oil is the best choice for the people who have those allergies, but it doesn't make it more healthier, also many people are allergic to lactose or casein, they aren't able to eat dairy, but it doesn't mean that dairy is bad for everybody. Only that it has allergens.

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This article says there is nothing necessarily unhealthy about the refined oil (though it has fewer of some of the non-oil nutrients), and that the RBD process is by filtering and steam (not addition of poisonous chemicals). It does not seem to support your claim that refined oil is at all harmful.

I agree with you about allergies - they only apply to the people who have them. I seem to be having trouble with milk myself, but I strongly recommend it as good food for people who do not have trouble with it. I don't say no-one should use unrefined coconut oil just because some people are allergic to it.

Where I disagree with you is where you make a strong generalisation that everyone should avoid RBD coconut oil (assuming we now agree that some of those with allergies to the unrefined oil may be better off with the RBD). The other reasons for choosing refined oil may still apply - taste, smoke point and cost. For many people, cost is not a trivial issue. Where I am, butter costs about twice as much as liquid seed oils, RBD coconut oil costs about twice as much as butter, and unrefined coconut oil costs about twice as much again. For many people that is a significant factor. If people are trying to make scarce dollars stretch to a better diet, I would say it's a reasonable option to save money by buying refined coconut oil, and use the saving to buy good milk, fruit, juice or whatever else they need. Also, if some of us simply prefer the taste, that is good grounds, and if we use it for frying, as I sometimes do, that is also reasonable grounds for choosing a reasonable quality RBD oil. And this option will not necessarily be any worse healthwise.

I didn't say it was harmful, I said that sometimes refined oil is made only for external use, due to the use of a lot of chemicals... Depending on how it was refined it can be edible or not... (And when you eat something that isn't edible... It's not healthy)
These are 2 types or refined coconut oil that aren't healthy
Hydrogenated Coconut Oil: This is the one refined coconut oil you want to stay away from as an edible oil. The small portion of unsaturated fatty acids are hydrogenated, creating some trans fats. It also keeps coconut oil solid at higher temperatures. We are not aware of such a product in the U.S. edible oil market at this time. If it exists as a product, it is probably going to be as an ingredient in the confection industry in tropical climates. Standard RBD coconut oil remains solid up to 76 degrees F., and the ambient air temperature is higher than that in the tropics most of the time. So to keep coconut oil solid at higher temperatures, they hydrogenate it before putting it into candies or baked goods, or making into margarines.

Liquid Coconut Oil: A new product that appeared in stores as an edible oil in 2013 was “liquid coconut oil” that is promoted as “coconut oil that stays liquid even in your refrigerator”. It may be a new label and a new item in the edible oil section, but the product is not new at all. It is “fractionated coconut oil” that has had lauric acid removed. It is also referred to as “MCT oil“. It has typically been used in the past in skin care products, and more recently as a dietary supplement. It is a refined product that is now marketed as an edible oil. It is actually a by-product from the lauric acid industry. Lauric acid from coconut oil is known as a strong antimicrobial component, and therefore used as a preservative in many commercial applications. Being a saturated fatty acid, and comprising about 50% of coconut oil, once it is removed you are left with a liquid oil with a much lower melting point. So if you see this product online or in a store, just be aware that it is a highly refined product, and that it is missing coconut oil’s star component: lauric acid. More info here.

So... the unrefined oil usually is healthier.
There are some good refined oils... But most aren't. And as the article says are are more or less refined.

Ray Peat said:

If you are using coconut oil regularly, that's a possible source of allergens, if it isn't well refined and deodorized.

Most cities have wholesale grocers that either stock it (in five gallon buckets) or can get it, and they usually charge about $50 per bucket. GloryBee in Eugene is one place I have bought it, and Tropical Traditions has a good one, called expeller expressed, non-certified, and I think it's shipped from Nevada.

It's just filtered, usually through diatomaceous earth, to remove materials other than the fat; the main problem with the unfiltered oil is that it's allergenic for many people. It also degrades quicker.

The problem lots of people have is diarrhea or other bowel reaction when they take more than a very small amount at a time. The first times I used it I smelled like a goat for several days, and even a small amount is enough for me to notice on my skin the next day. [MCT OIL]

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http://wiki.raypeatforum.com/index.php/ ... oconut_Oil

MCT it's the Coconut oil without the Lauric acid wich is the healthiest fatty chain of the coconut...

A possible source of allergens... Milk is also a possible source of allergens, as far as I know there are more lactose / casein intolerants, than people who has problem with coconut oil.

The main problem and the diarrhea is that people usually don't eat a lot of fat, and even olive virgin oil can cause it, because it's pure fat... A remedy for costipation. So the thing would be eat it in moderation.

Greta said:

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96157/ As far as I'm concern you cannot eat refined coconut oil, it should be unrefined, the refined is mostly used to moistorize your skin or external use, not to be eaten.

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Greta said:

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96278/ I didn't say it was harmful, I said that sometimes refined oil is made only for external use, due to the use of a lot of chemicals... Depending on how it was refined it can be edible or not... (And when you eat something that isn't edible... It's not healthy)

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OK, if what you meant was that the stuff that is not produced and intended for consumption should not be consumed, but that the large amounts of RBD oil that are produced specifically for food are fine for people to eat, maybe we are in agreement after all.

Peat has said that if offered a choice between hydrogenated or unhydrogenated vege oils, he would choose the hydrogenated.
As I understand it, hydrogenating oil means making it more saturated, which is mostly a good thing for health. There may be some trans fats created, but I am not sure that these are any worse than the polyunsaturated fats that were there to begin with.

The liquid coconut oil/MCT oil is not the main kind sold for consumption. I see no evidence that it is harmful (although that could be because it's just not used that much yet - I think Peat may consider the jury out on this), just that it has a lot less of the lauric acid, so you might get more out of the whole oil (RBD or virgin).

What I meant is that many refined coconut oils aren't edible, and they're for external use only.
At least in my country, the one that is sold for human consumption is mostly the virgin, unrefined, and the other could be found in the cosmetic aisle of some markets. So that was my mistake, also I have read that some people have used the refined one, made with cosmetic purposes for cooking/ eating and got very sick.
When I read that he was feeling so bad after eating it, I though he had made the same mistake, as I think it might be common.

Greta said:

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96289/ What I meant is that many refined coconut oils aren't edible, and they're for external use only.
At least in my country, the one that is sold for human consumption is mostly the virgin, unrefined, and the other could be found in the cosmetic aisle of some markets. So that was my mistake, also I have read that some people have used the refined one, made with cosmetic purposes for cooking/ eating and got very sick.
When I read that he was feeling so bad after eating it, I though he had made the same mistake, as I think it might be common.

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Sounds like we've just had different views because things look different in our different countries. :)
So your advice to beware of non-food-grade oil is good advice where-ever that occurs.

tara said:

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96251/

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slayers said:

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96270/

I took finasteride and it completely wrecked my system at age 19.. no one knows how to fix it or what the problem is.

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go see dr. john chrisler or dr. eugene shippen

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hell no.. their advice consists of taking T replacement and clomid at varying doses... no thx :P'


first of all.. want to say.. THANK yOU EVERYONE HERE.. yOU ARE ALL AWESOME, TARA GREtA, MITTIR, ETC ETC.. DANG

so yeah , I felt like I was dying yesterday, upped the OJ and felt a bit better. when I want my little "boost" I add in coffee and start feeling a bit better.

however.. I had a breakthrough yesterday. I bought k2 in droplet form online.. immediately felt way better after taking it. i think I have some serious calcium uptake problems or something. vitD I'm going to assume is low so I bought it, but forgot about k2. so I laid off D, then got k2 and took them both.. DAMN, feel way better. I also drank a lot of milk and OJ today with no coffee and feel a bit better even without coffee... awesome. i'm going to grab some aspirin as the next peaty thing to add in.

good things comin folks... good things comin i'm prayin. i had everything tested in blood.. doctors office still didn't send it to me.. they are taking their damn time.. i will probably go to the office and get the results monday.

hell no.. their advice consists of taking T replacement and clomid at varying doses... no thx

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I would be very surprised if drinking some OJ or taking vit K does anything to overcome the damage done your system by taking that drug..
Oh btw peat says this about Testosterone "Yes, pure testosterone on the skin is safe if the diet and thyroid function are good, but it's better to try supplements of pregnenolone first, and then DHEA, to normalize the testosterone production."