Why Does Starch Make Me Extremely Sick?

artist · Oct 17, 2015

Westside PUFAs said:
post 104557

artist said:

post 104490 Actually my question was why does it make me sick, so no that doesn't answer it.

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Sorry, you’re right. I meant to say you have your solution; don’t eat it if it makes you feel such horrendous things.
no problem. I realize a lot of people here are struggling with those issues no matter what they do and I'm glad I feel reasonably ok when avoiding starch, although probably still not exactly top shape
Now, as to why does it make you feel that? I don’t know. It could be many different things. It’s hard to narrow it down.

Peat’s view on starch in the “optimal” Peat template sense would be little to no starch and if starch is consumed it should always be with butter or coconut oil. There is also a paradox with that though because Peat has also mentioned the fattening effect of too much butter so if one was to get daily calories from starch with added butter it would be too much fat calories overtime if one is not physically active, thus that leads you back to the Peat template of consuming little to no starch. The only starch Peat personally eats is the occasional nixtamalized corn and baby turnips when he’s in Mexico.
I agree about that paradox, to answer one of your questions I am 5'8" and 140 lbs so not overweight and I'd like to maintain or even lose about 5-10 lbs. Following a buttery potato type routine seems like it'd pack on the pounds for anyone

artist said:

post 104490 and for another starch is the basis of human civilization and therefore shows up in pretty much every cuisine, avoiding it is inconvenient and makes social meals difficult.

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Right. Which is why Peat wrote:

“There isn't anything wrong with a high carbohydrate diet, and even a high starch diet isn't necessarily incompatible with good health, but when better foods are available they should be used instead of starches.” - Ray Peat ("better foods" in that quote means fruit)

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/glycemia.shtml

which actually shows Peat’s brilliance because he is able to acknowledge this:

which also fits in line with this quote:

“For the present, the important thing is to avoid the use of the least appropriate food products, while choosing natural foods that have historical, epidemiological, and biochemical justification.” - Ray Peat

http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/trypt ... ging.shtml

Silly Paleo people will say “yea and we became fat and sick when we started farming and eating all of that.”

Yep. Because the disease epidemic in the US with heart disease, obesity, type 2 diabetes, and cancer is all because everyone is eating quality steamed starch with no PUFA oils added to them or cooked in first, not tons of cheese added to it, non-flour products that are always packed with deli meats and chemicals, carrageenan, sawdust and the same chemical used for yoga mats in Subway bread, yep that's exactly the one and only reason why everyone is sick.
totally agree with all this as well, the whole anti-starch paradigm never sat well with me. It seems ahistorical and even arrogant to me to dismiss the foundation of the modern humans diet. Like on a philosphical level ot bothers me. I would not be avoiding starch if it weren't clear how it affects me

The "even a high starch diet isn't necessarily incompatible with good health" Peat quote allows you to take your Peat template in your own direction. I agree with you with what you said about the cost factor. But even if I could afford lots of fruit, I would still eat starch. It's not just a money thing. But the quality ripe sweet fruit availability factor is a big issue. I need to get my carbs from somewhere. You'll see Brad and Jeremy will probably show the part in their interview with Peat where he says something about making the best choices you can given your economic status and geographical location.

Now, if you would like to know how you could eat starch without bad effects, I need more information. I know you are 26 and female but I would also need to know the following:

I went ahead and filled out this form
Your height: 5'8"
Approximate weight: 140lbs
List of all current supplements: liquid b complex, ndt, vitamin c sometimes, moderate caffeine daily
List of all current medications: none
Approximate location in the world: recently moved from LA to Alabama, previously lived in Portland Oregon most my life
Bowel movements:
General daily diet: cheese, yogurt, orange juice, carrot salad or other salad or vegetables, jams, fruits, strictly avoid pufa
General circadian rhythm times:I go to bed around midnight or 1 most days, in the past I definitely did too much late night computer

If you would rather have a female around your age help you with this, then it is only logical to look at females around your age who are thriving off of high starch diets. Even if your goal has nothing to do with weight loss, in the context of eating starch like your thread here states, here are some:

Hannah Janish aka "High Carb Hannah," she offers coaching and may be able to help you with starch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvkhpdKq-vk

Her instagram showing what she eats:

https://instagram.com/highcarbhannah

A little older, Chef AJ showing it can be done with age:

https://www.facebook.com/chef.aj1/timel ... e_internal

Cathy Fisher's starch based blog:

http://www.straightupfood.com/blog/

I suppose I assumed these women have some kind of natural tolerance for starch that I don't, most people don't seem to have a broad sensitivity to the base of the food pyramid, although perhaps the people drawn to low carb in the first place may tend to have such a sensitivity. I will look around at more high carbers and former low carbers

Parsifal said:

post 104497 Starch: Feed bacteria that produces endotoxin => Raise serotonin/oestrogen/histamines => Hibernation hormones, goitrogens and excitotoxicty promoters (as well virtually every stress hormones) = Low energy, suicidal thoughts, myxedema (from low thyroid), etc.

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It’s not that simple. I can show you about 100 different people who thrive off of high starch that are obviously are not having endotoxin poisoning including myself. But someone like the OP here may have that issue.

Also:

"Thyroid hormone increases digestive activity, including stomach acid and peristalsis, and both thyroid and progesterone increase the ability of the intestine to absorb sugars quickly; their deficiency can permit bacteria to live on sugars as well as starches.” - Ray Peat

Out of 116 Peat quotes on the subject of endotoxin, only 2 mention starch:

http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/1 ... endotoxin/

Endotoxin is not simply just from starch. It’s a bigger thyroid, metabolic and bowel function issue.
this is a good point as well, I think I get similar issues as starch when I drink lactose milk which I know I can't really handle

FredSonoma · Oct 17, 2015

artist said:
post 104660

FredSonoma said:

post 104525

artist said:

post 104509 Thanks Parsifal, that makes a lot of sense. Maybe if I focus on using more jam or refined sugar on top of juice it could get the cost down, I suppose most grain starches aren't much more nutritious than white sugar. It does make me wonder how things went so wrong in my gut or how I could fix it, but that is a complex question

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I agree that it could be feeding "bad" bacteria. I got a bout of Shigella food poisoning 3 years ago that has made me completely unable to eat starch since then. It used to cause really bad joint pain, but now it just gives me diarrhea / acne / bad emotions.

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That's fascinating. It would be really helpful if I could identify something likethat although I'm not sure what action you can take to resolve the problem other than try to improve overall health? Have you experimented with antibiotics or garlic or anything like that?

I spent like 2 years thinking about my gut biome every day... I was really afraid of antibiotics though because of Paleo blog conditioning lol :lol:

I definitely think about it and imagine my health would be better if I could fix watever was fckered down there... but following Ray Peat's stuff has been a huge help regardless, and the beautiful thing about it is... you dont need any starch. The closest thing I did to trying antibiotics was a 20-day fast and god dam did that clear up my bloating LOL, and honestly it made me feel kind of happy, albeit really fkin tired... This ***t sucks and I wonder if I'll be stuck with it the rest of my life, but at least I found something that seems to be moving me in a positive direction

artist · Oct 17, 2015

narouz said:
post 104589

artist said:

post 104280 I have read Peat's articles and generally understand the logic behind his recommendation against starch, and I'm grateful for it - without Peat I would have continued thinking "carbs" in general make me sick, never realizing I can consume sugars without negative consequences.

When I eat a lot of starch on a daily basis, and I've experimented with many gluten-free varieties of starch (I still keep it low PUFA and mostly low fat, and I've played with whole and refined rice/corn, pasta, crackers, potatoes, starchy soups, legumes), within a week:

- I become extremely depressed to the point of suicidal thoughts, thinking that everyone I know hates me, general obsessive tendencies, overwhelming brain fog
- I slowly start to develop clogged pores and greasy skin and finally hormonal acne all along my jawline
- My face becomes puffy, eyes look sickly
- I start to require literally 12-14 hours of sleep per night, and feel hungover every morning, body feels heavy, nothing seems appealing but sleep and internet
- If I keep it up for more than a week I start to pile on weight (visibly, as I don't weigh myself) that I'm guessing is a mixture of fat and water retention...

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A minority view here, to be sure,
and unPeatian to boot, but...
there used to be a poster here named Stuart
who started a thread called something like "Why is there so much soluble fiber in human milk?"
He thought such strong negative reaction to starch
is diagnostic of SIBO.
I think I've got that approximately correct, from memory.
He was a big believer in aggressively consuming certain pro- or pre-biotics
and also eating a lot of what he said were the favorite food for "beneficial bacteria"--soluble fiber.

I mention this because, though that general view is unPeatian,
I have found, I think, that there may be something to it. :)

Do you have your appendix, by the way?

I read a chunk of that thread and found his points interesting although I thought his premise about breast milk was found to be misguided. I actually do notice a huge positive effect from certain kinds of kefir. My skin will be really soft and clear and clean feeling from consuming large quantities of it although I don't find that sustainable. I do have my appendix though and I do find that I have no real issues with fiber and could probably afford to eat more of it

tara · Oct 17, 2015

Parsifal said:
post 104594

The carbohydrate digesting enyme Amylase is a natural IgG histamine blocker, which stabilizes mast cells and basophils that release histamine at the start of an inflammatory response. The excessive consumption of carbohydrates will chronically deplete amylase thereby increasing histamine-related health problems such as allergen reactions and sinus headaches. Relief can be achieved through using plant-based enzymes with meals, as well as reducing carbohydrate consumption. Chronic carbohydrate consumption creates stress which exhausts the adrenal glands and the immune system, leaving the body open to attack. Enzymes normally break down allergens into smaller components in order to eliminate it without stressing the body. But in the case of allergic symptoms--when there are inadequate enzymes reserves in the body histamine is released rather than enzymatic breakdown of the allergens.

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http://biologyofkundalini.com/article.p ... =Histamine

I'm not digesting fruits well since many months now. Even if I chew very well and take time to eat the carotenes come undigested and I find bits undigested fruits in my stool.

I assume that by carbs she means starch, since I think amylase is specifically for digesting starch, not sucrose etc?
If I read it right, she is saying that:
1. Amylase blocks histamine and reduces inflammation.
2. Eating lots of starch reduces amylase.
I don't know aabout 1., but 2. is the opposite of what I'd have expected. Peat has said it can take a few days to adapt to a change in diet. I thought the normal adaptations were to increas production of the enzymes required for the foods one habitually eats. So eating more starch would result in more amylase after a while, and completely avoiding starch could be expected to significantly reduce amylase production. I imagine that under some conditions, the body can have trouble making these adaptations - eg hypothyroid/low body temps etc, and maybe other individual weakness or imbalances.
So if one is unaccustomed to starch, or unable to adapt to digesting it, that might mean that consuming it could result in more discomfort.

So I reckon Jake's explanation could apply to some people:

Jake said:
post 104570 It may be something as simple as if you’ve restricted it for a while your body is ill equipped to handle it, at least for the time being. This seems to occur with a number of foods, for example milk. Maybe starting slowly and gradually increasing the amount will eventually allow you to handle it without issue?

michael94 · Oct 17, 2015

Starch should for the most part be eaten as a way of replenishing muscle glycogen, imo. It won't kill you when that is not the case, but it's not optimal.

A top tier athlete or farmer working the fields for 12 hours a day will do extremely well on a high starch diet while the average american who does little to no moderate-high intensity work will do quite poorly, the degree to which depending on age. Of course the larger hidden problem is that starches tend to make it very easy to undereat protein and various micronutrients.

artist · Oct 18, 2015

Interesting thoughts, do you have more evidence for your claim about exercise and starch? I do agree that completely sedentary lifestyle s can lead to systemic health problems that could include gut problems.

vb2005 · Oct 25, 2015

I dont want to offend your guru but Ray Peat is wrong for many many things - like iodine, supplements etc.
I have gut problems and tried every of Peat's advice and the result was horrible - orange juice, white sugar, fruits, honey, gelatin. Also he blames thyroid for SIBO - well my thyroid tests are fine including antibodies. I have not seen even one case when someone healed SIBO following Peat advice - exactly the opposite. Even reading only this thread shows how wrong is he regarding gut health and even thyroid. I have read many times how people regrow hair with high fat low carb diets - how will Peat explain this? How will he explain that people cure sibo by fasting for a week? If he war right fasting should make their sibo worse. Where are all success stories on this forum - i dont see much of them? In few cases where there are some improvement it is related to supplements - this is the real cause of all diseases - mineral or vitamin deficiencies. Look around you - people are eating like pigs - and yes most of them are healthy. I know people eating pufas every single day for the last 50 years and they are slim health and look good.
I am no saying that pufas are good - i am saying this is not the main problem.
Regarding gut problems my research shows that all are caused by leaky gut which is caused by zinc and niacin deficiency.
Peat have excellent advice regarding some foods like grains - but i dont think supplementing with NDT will fix your zinc deficiency even if you eat meat simply because you can not digest it if you are already deficient on zinc.
Also there are a lot of cases when people fix serious health problems taking minerals WITHOUT changing their diet - like diabetes and chromium.
If you accelerate your thyroid without enough minerals you will make your condition worse. Not to mention that you can be hypo due to mineral deficiencies like - selenium, iodine and zinc for sure and probably some others like chromium, vanadium.

vb2005 · Oct 25, 2015

I know a woman that is eating for lunch sunflower seeds - every day for many years - at least in the last 20 years since i know her - she is doing this because she is saving money - it is cheap lunch and at 70 years old now she looks like 50 years old - she eats maybe 100 - 200 gram per day - this makes a lot of pufas.

YuraCZ · Oct 25, 2015

vb2005 said:
post 105806 I dont want to offend your guru but Ray Peat is wrong for many many things - like iodine, supplements etc.
I have gut problems and tried every of Peat's advice and the result was horrible - orange juice, white sugar, fruits, honey, gelatin. Also he blames thyroid for SIBO - well my thyroid tests are fine including antibodies. I have not seen even one case when someone healed SIBO following Peat advice - exactly the opposite. Even reading only this thread shows how wrong is he regarding gut health and even thyroid. I have read many times how people regrow hair with high fat low carb diets - how will Peat explain this? How will he explain that people cure sibo by fasting for a week? If he war right fasting should make their sibo worse. Where are all success stories on this forum - i dont see much of them? In few cases where there are some improvement it is related to supplements - this is the real cause of all diseases - mineral or vitamin deficiencies. Look around you - people are eating like pigs - and yes most of them are healthy. I know people eating pufas every single day for the last 50 years and they are slim health and look good.
I am no saying that pufas are good - i am saying this is not the main problem.
Regarding gut problems my research shows that all are caused by leaky gut which is caused by zinc and niacin deficiency.
Peat have excellent advice regarding some foods like grains - but i dont think supplementing with NDT will fix your zinc deficiency even if you eat meat simply because you can not digest it if you are already deficient on zinc.
Also there are a lot of cases when people fix serious health problems taking minerals WITHOUT changing their diet - like diabetes and chromium.
If you accelerate your thyroid without enough minerals you will make your condition worse. Not to mention that you can be hypo due to mineral deficiencies like - selenium, iodine and zinc for sure and probably some others like chromium, vanadium.

I agree.. If you have gut issues with hypothyroidism, adrenal issues etc. You simply can't start pounding Peat friendly foods-fructose, lactose, casein, FODMAP fiber etc.. Yes if you are healthy, then Peat friendly diet can make you healthier. But then again if you are healthy, then you probably don't search for any magical diet plan.. I also agree with zinc/copper disbalance. Peat don't see this as an issue at all. Which i think is big mistake.. :roll:

I think my father with his prostate cancer is an excellent example of zinc deficiency. Alot of copper rich foods, especially beer. Not enough zinc rich foods and he had also alot of girls in his life, sex probably everyday = zinc excretion in sperm. Now he has due to "modern treatment" even more estrogen dominance = impaired thyroid, adrenals, liver = copper dysregulation and basically all symptoms of zinc deficiency and biounavailable copper overload.. And especially his personality changed so much to worse. I'm 100% sure that if he had enough zinc in the diet, he was absolutely fine right now.

tara · Oct 25, 2015

@vb2005:
How about (re)reading more of Peat's articles and interviews before announcing that he is wrong? He has made the point that increased metabolism requires increases in most nutrients, and has specifically mentioned zinc and selenium as being necessary for good metabolism. He certainly frequently mentions the importance of getting minerals and vitamins.

vb2005 said:
post 105806 Peat have excellent advice regarding some foods like grains - but i dont think supplementing with NDT will fix your zinc deficiency even if you eat meat simply because you can not digest it if you are already deficient on zinc.

In case you missed it, Peat suggests a dozen oysters a week for the zinc. And sea food regularly for selenium. And green broths for magnesium and other minerals, if not getting enough from other sources. And potassium from fruit. And calcium.
As far as I can tell, most of his suggestions have more useful minerals in them than the average US diet.

vb2005 said:
post 105806 I know people eating pufas every single day for the last 50 years and they are slim health and look good.

Before I read Peat, I had been eating PUFA daily too. I was lean enough (not extremely, though) and got appreciative comments about my figure from time to time. I was nowhere near as healthy as many people much rounder than me, though. I'm much more interested in being healthy, at this point, than looking 'healthy'.

vb2005 said:
post 105806 If you accelerate your thyroid without enough minerals you will make your condition worse. Not to mention that you can be hypo due to mineral deficiencies like - selenium, iodine and zinc for sure and probably some others like chromium, vanadium.

Peat does not recommend persisting with things that irritate your guts. He recommends learning about physiology, observing yourself, and thinking for yourself. He has not said everyone should eat the same prescribed diet - he acknowledges that needs differ because we are not all in the same state.

vb2005 said:
post 105808 I know a woman that is eating for lunch sunflower seeds - every day for many years - at least in the last 20 years since i know her - she is doing this because she is saving money - it is cheap lunch and at 70 years old now she looks like 50 years old - she eats maybe 100 - 200 gram per day - this makes a lot of pufas.

I don't know wat Peat would say, but I would say that without knowing about the rest of her current and historical diet, we don't know if it is better or worse that the average person's diet. I agree it is a lot of PUFA. Lots of people eat that much PUFA as refined seed oils as part of a diet that is severely mineral deficient. We also don't know how much better off she would be if she could choose better food - sounds like she knows herself that it is not optimal, just necessary for budget reasons.

Amazoniac · Oct 25, 2015

His critique seems targeted more towards how the forum is interpreting and simplifying his work than his work per se..

Giraffe · Oct 25, 2015

vb2005 said:
post 105806 Regarding gut problems my research shows that all are caused by leaky gut which is caused by zinc and niacin deficiency.
Peat have excellent advice regarding some foods like grains - but i dont think supplementing with NDT will fix your zinc deficiency even if you eat meat simply because you can not digest it if you are already deficient on zinc.
Also there are a lot of cases when people fix serious health problems taking minerals WITHOUT changing their diet - like diabetes and chromium.
If you accelerate your thyroid without enough minerals you will make your condition worse. Not to mention that you can be hypo due to mineral deficiencies like - selenium, iodine and zinc for sure and probably some others like chromium, vanadium.

On supplementing zinc see: Zinc supplements - clarification on Ray's comment.

Ray Peat thinks that "chromium is too toxic to use as a supplement". Foods high in phytic acid (nuts, seeds, grains, beans) and fiber impair absorption of minerals including chromium; Peat advices against eating those foods.

As far as I know there is little/no evidence for essentiality of vanandium. The mechanism of action is poorly understood. To me it looks pretty toxic:

Essentiality and toxicity of vanadium supplements in health and pathology.
In "pathological conditions (in cancer, infection or inflammation) vanadium accumulates in the liver, kidneys, lungs, spleen, adipose tissue, heart, bones and teeth". "... oxidative metabolism impairment, suppression of respiratory chain enzymes, induction of oxidative stress in
mitochondria, lipid peroxidation"

Vanadium & Diabetes, Benefit or Harm?
"But too many unknowns surround this mineral today. No one knows how to determine if a person is deficient, or how to determine an optimum dose, if there is such a thing. Although vanadium compounds are available at health food stores, use of this trace mineral is definitely not recommended until more is known about its risks. Vanadium obviously has the potential to affect many areas in the body for better or worse."

tara · Oct 26, 2015

Amazoniac said:
post 105887 His critique seems targeted more towards how the forum is interpreting and simplifying his work than his work per se..

Possibly, but that's not what he said.
I wouldn't recommend any think they understand Peat's views from reading a few forum posts - there are lots of interpretations, some of them conflicting, all of them with somewhat different emphasis.

Amazoniac · Dec 19, 2015

Westside PUFAs said:
Why eat it then? You already have your answer.

Fruit, fruit juice, low fat/skim lactose and a little cane sugar/honey are the other carbohydrate sources. Use those as your carb sources.

West, just out of curiosity: how would you advise someone that struggles with starches to reintroduce them to the diet? Considering that the person already has good metabolism..

Westside PUFAs · Dec 19, 2015

Amazoniac said:
post 115517 West, just out of curiosity: how would you advise someone that struggles with starches to reintroduce them to the diet? Considering that the person already has good metabolism..

I was so afraid of even the tiniest amount of starch because it caused me to go into a blood sugar coma. Once I figured out that cutting the fat out was key, it all made sense. Sometimes I have to fast/juice fast for a day or two after a high fat intake to clear the fat from my bloodstream in order to eat starch with it being blocked by the fat. It is laughable to me now how much starch I can eat without having one single blood sugar reaction. Starch is still tasty without butter. There is a myriad of things to add to it. I think most people aren't willing to put in the work to maintain a good diet. I know from experience with myself and people in real life. I think people still sneak junk foods whilst trying to eat well but then when things go wrong they blame the good food whilst omitting the bad foods.

Nicholas · Dec 19, 2015

Westside PUFAs said:
post 115531

Amazoniac said:

post 115517 West, just out of curiosity: how would you advise someone that struggles with starches to reintroduce them to the diet? Considering that the person already has good metabolism..

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I was so afraid of even the tiniest amount of starch because it caused me to go into a blood sugar coma. Once I figured out that cutting the fat out was key, it all made sense. Sometimes I have to fast/juice fast for a day or two after a high fat intake to clear the fat from my bloodstream in order to eat starch with it being blocked by the fat. It is laughable to me now how much starch I can eat without having one single blood sugar reaction. Starch is still tasty without butter. There is a myriad of things to add to it. I think most people aren't willing to put in the work to maintain a good diet. I know from experience with myself and people in real life. I think people still sneak junk foods whilst trying to eat well but then when things go wrong they blame the good food whilst omitting the bad foods.

Amazoniac · Dec 20, 2015

Westside PUFAs said:
post 115531

Amazoniac said:

post 115517 West, just out of curiosity: how would you advise someone that struggles with starches to reintroduce them to the diet? Considering that the person already has good metabolism..

Click to expand...

I was so afraid of even the tiniest amount of starch because it caused me to go into a blood sugar coma. Once I figured out that cutting the fat out was key, it all made sense. Sometimes I have to fast/juice fast for a day or two after a high fat intake to clear the fat from my bloodstream in order to eat starch with it being blocked by the fat. It is laughable to me now how much starch I can eat without having one single blood sugar reaction. Starch is still tasty without butter. There is a myriad of things to add to it. I think most people aren't willing to put in the work to maintain a good diet. I know from experience with myself and people in real life. I think people still sneak junk foods whilst trying to eat well but then when things go wrong they blame the good food whilst omitting the bad foods.

You think that issues that are not related to blood sugar regulation (bloating, endotoxins, etc) self-correct over time just by avoiding fats? How? No sarcasm.
The only explanation to me seems to be that the person won't prolong the digestion and possibly avoid triggering existing problems. Over time, with normalization of transit time, you can increase the energy needed to heal those problems. Any other reason?

DaveFoster · Dec 20, 2015

artist said:
Do other people here have the same experience with starch or have any ideas about why it can have such a profound effect?

Because starch is EVIL.

Life sucks without fat. Life is fine without starch. You decide.

artist · May 2, 2016

tldr; should I possibly go zero fat, do a fast (water or juice), or some other protocol to try to heal my SIBO-type starch intolerance situation? Any other insights based on the novel below?

Hey I'm back in this thread, and I see interesting contributions were made since my last post. I would like to make this my general log/ask-for-help thread if possible. I made another thread around January about getting a big metabolic boost and edema flush with red light and vitamin A+D. Notably I was eating a LOT of yellow potatoes and little else (though with quite a bit of fat aka sour cream) but the endotoxin issues crept back in and I had to give up potatoes again. I'm still struggling to find a balance with my diet and I am determined (at LEAST long term) to bring starch of some kind into my diet.

I'm interested in hearing from Westside PUFAs and others who are amenable to starch, possibly fasting, etc. I am quite familiar with Peat's work at this point but this is my health not Peat's so I would like to have his work as a touchstone while keeping an open mind

Skip the following indented text if you don't want info that's very specific to me

I'm gonna distill and update my general profile for my own sake and if anyone wants to take the time for this detective work or who is in a similar situation

Vitals: 5'8, 135lbs, female, sunny climate
Slow digestion (which I compensate for with supplements) but nothing that obviously crazy otherwise
High caffeine tolerance, lowwwwww coffee tolerance (is it because it suppresses zinc and b1? idk)
Desire and ability to sleep are both strong, I could probably sleep all day if allowed, and I always wake up feeling vaguely hungover (actually often feel better after a night of drinking than a normal day, possibly due to antimicrobial effect of alcohol. Might be relevant that my parents both were functional alcoholics, mom still is, and dad has MS)
Much stronger appetite for carbs (sugar and starch both) than fat, this has always been the case
Allergies and intolerances are numerous for me in that I have MCS, any fragrance makes me deathly ill, rubbing alcohol, bleach etc and I have a lot of histamine problems that are only under control because I drink so damn much orange juice. My nose/face/eyes/lips/some combination thereof are slightly swollen about 80% of the time, and I get hot flashes
Temperament/mental health tend towards general anxiety, racing thoughts, talk fast, emotional, dramatic, paranoid+obsessive
Skin has always been very fragile and reactive since birth, prone to conditions doctors documented for medical research (lol), rashes, allergies, stretch marks and stubborn acne that really only goes away completely with limited carbs, this and my brain seem to be the organs that suffer outwardlythe most
Lost weight Peating, this is possibly an important clue
Miscellaneous: brain fog (this mixes with anxiety, they're kind of the same to me), stiff joints in my hands since Peating which made me stop drinking milk, water retention, lower abdomen bloating, bad PMS

Medical history:
Felt tired and craved vinegar constantly as a child, was extremely underweight, ate mostly butter toast, cereal and milk, fast food and tons of cola, avoided physical activity pathologically, depressed as a preteen, then health started really declining after I started menstruating (age 14), almost immediately manifesting in my basic health situation now, I've just been kinda on that one rollercoaster ride with some highs and lows since then. Developed a a restrictive ED around 18-19, lost my period, that all lasted til 21 when it became binge eating, stopped having eating disorder type thoughts after finding Peat's work (!) age 24 which is definitely worth the price of admission

Things that seem to actually help
1. Natural antibiotics (namely oregano oil and cinnamon) do make me feel better. Cinnamon in particular seems to make a big difference with
normalizing digestion and both reduce aforementioned constant hungover feeling, haven't stay on either long enough to know if they could "fix me"
2. I am addicted to Hi Ball energy drinks, I waste so much money on these because they make me feel instantly better, but basically CAFFEINE and B VITS especially B1, B2, B3, B6 (best of all) and B12, for some reason it's not quite the same just taking caffeine pills and b complex
3. Magnesium and zinc, both (separately or together) help my anxiety a ton, I take them with P5P and have no digestive upset
4, The aforementioned vitamin A+D3 (mainly A), all fat solubles help me but there is something transformative about this specifically, it makes my teeth very white and opaque, I lose water weight and feel clear headed and awake. I can tolerate or need to tolerate huge amounts in order to get the energy and sharpness from it, like I don't know where that "high A suppresses metabolism" thing comes from cause this gets me almost too juiced in terms of thyroid, but I backed off taking it after the potato time because I guess I was scared it could be damaging taking 100k+ IU long term
5. Cardio but I only feel good enough to do it once in a while, I used to be a cardio fiend

Pros to starch (even in my weakened current state)

1. Digestion gets very normal (at least superficially) and faster
2. At least at first, ormonally I feel more normal, calm, grounded, $exy, less "dead" ...it's hard to describe actually because it's beyond these
3. As tara said, without starch it feels like something is "amiss". I am queen at finding substitutes for cravings and I can be a trooper through any diet, but no starch just seems wrong. To boot, I crave beans and rice not cake
4. Meat in any major quantity has become increasingly disgusting to me over the years, and I strongly suspect dairy is the cause of joint calcifications in my hands that started to arise last summer and I also think it cancels out my much needed magnesium too much, I just feel funny about the whole dairy thing, so the list of what I can eat is getting really short PLUS
5. I am on a budget like most people. I am already placing diet about every other expense but I can't afford to live off juice, and I'm sorry but getting most cals from coconut oil or refined sugar isn't gonna cut it

I do find that refined starches in significant quantities back up my digestion and make me feel bad pretty much immediately. Unrefined beans, potatoes, rice, whatever, basicallly make me feel the positive effects for about 2-6 days before the wheels fall off and I feel TERRIBLE, particularly with acne (most clearcut sign), mood, histamine and estrogen problems

I've been taking oregano oil and it's interesting and positive so far but I haven't heard of anyone curing SIBO all the way with this or anything, the official use for this by functional medicine doctors is to do it for a month and then stay on one of those ghastly low carb diets forever. I will give it a shot at least and will probably try berberine and some of the other herbal antimicrobials.

I have done fairly low fat editions of Starch Attempts but maybe I need to go further into no fat? Is there any reason to believe this could make a difference? Or even fast for a few days to a week or do an OJ fast? I'm willing to try pretty much anything at this point

EIRE24 · May 2, 2016

artist said:
tldr; should I possibly go zero fat, do a fast (water or juice), or some other protocol to try to heal my SIBO-type starch intolerance situation? Any other insights based on the novel below?

Hey I'm back in this thread, and I see interesting contributions were made since my last post. I would like to make this my general log/ask-for-help thread if possible. I made another thread around January about getting a big metabolic boost and edema flush with red light and vitamin A+D. Notably I was eating a LOT of yellow potatoes and little else (though with quite a bit of fat aka sour cream) but the endotoxin issues crept back in and I had to give up potatoes again. I'm still struggling to find a balance with my diet and I am determined (at LEAST long term) to bring starch of some kind into my diet.

I'm interested in hearing from Westside PUFAs and others who are amenable to starch, possibly fasting, etc. I am quite familiar with Peat's work at this point but this is my health not Peat's so I would like to have his work as a touchstone while keeping an open mind

Skip the following indented text if you don't want info that's very specific to me

I'm gonna distill and update my general profile for my own sake and if anyone wants to take the time for this detective work or who is in a similar situation

Vitals: 5'8, 135lbs, female, sunny climate
Slow digestion (which I compensate for with supplements) but nothing that obviously crazy otherwise
High caffeine tolerance, lowwwwww coffee tolerance (is it because it suppresses zinc and b1? idk)
Desire and ability to sleep are both strong, I could probably sleep all day if allowed, and I always wake up feeling vaguely hungover (actually often feel better after a night of drinking than a normal day, possibly due to antimicrobial effect of alcohol. Might be relevant that my parents both were functional alcoholics, mom still is, and dad has MS)
Much stronger appetite for carbs (sugar and starch both) than fat, this has always been the case
Allergies and intolerances are numerous for me in that I have MCS, any fragrance makes me deathly ill, rubbing alcohol, bleach etc and I have a lot of histamine problems that are only under control because I drink so damn much orange juice. My nose/face/eyes/lips/some combination thereof are slightly swollen about 80% of the time, and I get hot flashes
Temperament/mental health tend towards general anxiety, racing thoughts, talk fast, emotional, dramatic, paranoid+obsessive
Skin has always been very fragile and reactive since birth, prone to conditions doctors documented for medical research (lol), rashes, allergies, stretch marks and stubborn acne that really only goes away completely with limited carbs, this and my brain seem to be the organs that suffer outwardlythe most
Lost weight Peating, this is possibly an important clue
Miscellaneous: brain fog (this mixes with anxiety, they're kind of the same to me), stiff joints in my hands since Peating which made me stop drinking milk, water retention, lower abdomen bloating, bad PMS

Medical history:
Felt tired and craved vinegar constantly as a child, was extremely underweight, ate mostly butter toast, cereal and milk, fast food and tons of cola, avoided physical activity pathologically, depressed as a preteen, then health started really declining after I started menstruating (age 14), almost immediately manifesting in my basic health situation now, I've just been kinda on that one rollercoaster ride with some highs and lows since then. Developed a a restrictive ED around 18-19, lost my period, that all lasted til 21 when it became binge eating, stopped having eating disorder type thoughts after finding Peat's work (!) age 24 which is definitely worth the price of admission

Things that seem to actually help
1. Natural antibiotics (namely oregano oil and cinnamon) do make me feel better. Cinnamon in particular seems to make a big difference with
normalizing digestion and both reduce aforementioned constant hungover feeling, haven't stay on either long enough to know if they could "fix me"
2. I am addicted to Hi Ball energy drinks, I waste so much money on these because they make me feel instantly better, but basically CAFFEINE and B VITS especially B1, B2, B3, B6 (best of all) and B12, for some reason it's not quite the same just taking caffeine pills and b complex
3. Magnesium and zinc, both (separately or together) help my anxiety a ton, I take them with P5P and have no digestive upset
4, The aforementioned vitamin A+D3 (mainly A), all fat solubles help me but there is something transformative about this specifically, it makes my teeth very white and opaque, I lose water weight and feel clear headed and awake. I can tolerate or need to tolerate huge amounts in order to get the energy and sharpness from it, like I don't know where that "high A suppresses metabolism" thing comes from cause this gets me almost too juiced in terms of thyroid, but I backed off taking it after the potato time because I guess I was scared it could be damaging taking 100k+ IU long term
5. Cardio but I only feel good enough to do it once in a while, I used to be a cardio fiend

Pros to starch (even in my weakened current state)

1. Digestion gets very normal (at least superficially) and faster
2. At least at first, ormonally I feel more normal, calm, grounded, $exy, less "dead" ...it's hard to describe actually because it's beyond these
3. As tara said, without starch it feels like something is "amiss". I am queen at finding substitutes for cravings and I can be a trooper through any diet, but no starch just seems wrong. To boot, I crave beans and rice not cake
4. Meat in any major quantity has become increasingly disgusting to me over the years, and I strongly suspect dairy is the cause of joint calcifications in my hands that started to arise last summer and I also think it cancels out my much needed magnesium too much, I just feel funny about the whole dairy thing, so the list of what I can eat is getting really short PLUS
5. I am on a budget like most people. I am already placing diet about every other expense but I can't afford to live off juice, and I'm sorry but getting most cals from coconut oil or refined sugar isn't gonna cut it

I do find that refined starches in significant quantities back up my digestion and make me feel bad pretty much immediately. Unrefined beans, potatoes, rice, whatever, basicallly make me feel the positive effects for about 2-6 days before the wheels fall off and I feel TERRIBLE, particularly with acne (most clearcut sign), mood, histamine and estrogen problems

I've been taking oregano oil and it's interesting and positive so far but I haven't heard of anyone curing SIBO all the way with this or anything, the official use for this by functional medicine doctors is to do it for a month and then stay on one of those ghastly low carb diets forever. I will give it a shot at least and will probably try berberine and some of the other herbal antimicrobials.

I have done fairly low fat editions of Starch Attempts but maybe I need to go further into no fat? Is there any reason to believe this could make a difference? Or even fast for a few days to a week or do an OJ fast? I'm willing to try pretty much anything at this point

I find the same thing with starch. It definitely increases my acne, it never did before I started incorporating peats ideas and reccomended food though which is strange. So, is your acne under control if you avoid starch?

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Why Does Starch Make Me Extremely Sick?

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