Notes Toward An "Optimal Peat Diet"

kayumochi said:

I am sceptical of diets that have no history of successfully supporting a civilisation, any civilisation, for centuries. Veganism, for example. And any attempt to put together a Ray Peat diet that doesn't mirror a successful historical diet.

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I agree with this. Look at the most successful cultures and most, if not all of them ate starch.

EIRE24 said:

I agree with this. Look at the most successful cultures and most, if not all of them ate starch.

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That doesn't mean starch is an optimal food source. Most societies cater their food consumption to economics, not health. Starch based diets are just cheaper for most people (especially those of us in the Northern hemisphere, where good fruit simply isn't abundant).

Tenacity said:

That doesn't mean starch is an optimal food source. Most societies cater their food consumption to economics, not health. Starch based diets are just cheaper for most people (especially those of us in the Northern hemisphere, where good fruit simply isn't abundant).

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Eire24 didn't use the phrase "starch based" - he only said "ate starch." Big difference.

kayumochi said:

Eire24 didn't use the phrase "starch based" - he only said "ate starch." Big difference.

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There's a difference if you take everything said at face value. The successful cultures EIRE24 is referring to all eat starch based diets. Grains, tubers, beans or plantains are the staple foods in most societies, all of which are predominantly starch. Staple food - Wikipedia And not because these foods are inherently healthful, but because they are the cheapest energy sources.

If the difference is not in eating starch-based but by eating starch period, how much starch, would you say, is adequate for a healthy diet?

Bearing in mind the title is looking for an 'optimal' diet, it's tough to argue that starch is in any way superior to sugar, unless you make the claim that starch is somehow necessary in some amount in the diet - that starches and sugars perform different functions.

"If the difference is not in eating starch-based but by eating starch period, how much starch, would you say, is adequate for a healthy diet?"

Good question. Does anyone really know where to draw the line with starch consumption? An examination of the diets of various Mediterranean cultures over the millennia would offer clues, as well as Asian cultures. Personally, I do well with small amounts eaten occasionally, and from what I have observed, most people do as well. The eating habits of the Hazda are fascinating.

The Egyptians lived on large amounts of bread and beer for thousands of years and were a very advanced organized civilization, the annual flooding of the Nile gave early humans something they could rely on, a sense of timing for agriculture.

The big questions for me is what was the variety of grains and soil health also how did they prepare and store the grains and how did they rise and make the bread and ferment the beer. Who knows maybe the way they fermented their food gave them great amounts of beneficial microbes that enhanced everything about there health.

The one food we really are lacking in the West is cultured naturally fermented foods rich in live beneficial bacteria. That combined with C-sections and lack of breast feeding could be part of the core issues with digestive and immune system health in the western world.

“One month after birth, bifidobacteria dominate a healthy, breastfed baby's gut – making up as much as 91 percent of the microbes that live there. These good-for-you bacteria help to tone the gut barrier and cultivate a strong immune system. But unfortunately, not everyone starts out with a microbial ecosystem ruled by bifidobacteria.

A few key factors that disrupt a baby's gut health are; premature birth, cesarean section delivery, use of baby formula and antibiotic use.”

When a child is born cesarian they will not have a chance to pick up the beneficial bacteria that occurs in normal delivery through the microbe rich birth canal of the mother.

The reality is most the world eats lots of starch, even the longest living cultures on the planet right now eat lots of rice.

I do not personally feel great eating tons of starch, but i can digest much more now that my heath is better, for many years i could not eat gluten without feeling awful, now i enjoy and feel good after eating quality bread.

My diet has greatly changed as my digestive and endocrine system come in to balance, and i keep getting more healthy. Being open to change is a key to the healing process i have found for myself.

I think our bodies have far more flexibility then we give them credit for, i know yogis in the Himalayas who have not eaten for years (they drink water) and are far stronger then the average person. They are doing practices (like sun gazing) that effect their physiology, most of us don't have the time or desire to go that far but its interesting to know what the range of biological possibilities are for human beings.

[QUOTE="Daniel11, post: 236455, member: 5872"

I think our bodies have far more flexibility then we give them credit for, i know yogis in the Himalayas who have not eaten for years (they drink water) and are far stronger then the average person. They are doing practices (like sun gazing) that effect their physiology, most of us don't have the time or desire to go that far but its interesting to know what the range of biological possibilities are for human beings.[/QUOTE]

Haven't eaten for years? lol They are con-artists aka liars. Sun gazing? Come on.

I know its seems unbelievable, i have been trekking in the Himalayas for many years, sometimes i will meet and walk with a yogi for a few days.

Many people sun gaze now days, here is interesting article with good info about the subject. I have sun gazed for several years and always feel great after doing.

Feasting on Sunshine

My understanding of RPs "diet'....
Avoid PUFA. Minimize fat. Except for coconut oil in lowish quantities.
Avoid starch,but if you do eat starch mix with fat for persorption issues. Potatoes are a great food,but if you have gut issues any starch is a problem. Masa Harini is not a good food.its just a less bad option
Get high calcium in relation to phosphorus.
Get the majority of your calories from sugars. Sugar to protein should be 2:1 in favor of sugar. Protein should be around 100 grams. Table sugar is preferred since it has no residue like fiber or allergens. Important if your gut is sensitive.
Other benefits of sugars,be it fruit,honey or table sugar,is that it aides in converting T4 to T3.
Meat. Since most of us in the West have limited access to non muscle meats, take collagen...like 20 grams per 8 ounce steak....or about 7 grams of glycine.
This may help lower the amount of gut produced serotonin too.

Philosophically, I believe a RP diet is one of exclusion,or avoidance. Avoid PUFA, avoid allergens (for some that means starch) ,avoid excessive protein based on unbalanced amino acids. Avoid foods that irritate you or slow transit time or slow your metabolic rate.
Furthermore, the RP "diet" will not fix your health, it may make it worse if you have deficiencies,ailments or suffer from years of improper diet.
If you are deficient in certain things you will probably need supplementation. B1,B2,niacinamide,preg,Progest,thyroid etc.
White table sugar has 0% of the required nutrients like B vitamins. Yet,you need b vitamins to use sugar.
If you live in most industrialized countries you will probably be low on D3....based on latitude and working. I believe even Peat uses D3.

I think naming a diet after RP is not ......proper. He goes to great lengths explaining what not to eat. And spends a great deal of effort telling people how to minimize harm with food options to avoid hunger and associated stress and metabolic inhibitions ,. That does not mean he thinks it's a great food, or that it is a staple part of the RP diet

charlie said:

Re: Notes Toward a Handle like a "Basic Peat Diet" (BPD)

Recently I was having a back and forth with Ray Peat and I asked him whats the best foods I can eat to get me out of the inflammation stage I am in and this is what he said:

"Generally, the simplest thing is to avoid things with starch and polyunsaturated fats. Milk and orange juice are the safest basic things, raw carrot helps to reduce intestinal inflammation and absorption of endotoxin, liver, eggs, and oysters are foods with a high ratio of nutrients to toxins." Ray Peat

So, if you are in the healing process. I would say starch is out of the question. Stick with well ripe Ray Peat approved fruits. And definitely stay away from plantains. Ray said they have high amount of serotonin in them. So I will be cutting them out of my diet.

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I am not sure how to gauge inflammation in the body, only thing I can say is that:

- once I started drinking milk and orange juice, carrots and no PUFA, I had sore muscles days after workouts and massages felt painful instead of healing, my gut was terribly rumbly and cramping most of the time.

- when I am off dairy and sugar but eating PUFA, veggies and chicken, I have no muscle pain and the masseur can actually apply great pressure without it being painful. Also my gut is in complete silence and pain-free.


But again, I don't know how inflammation translates in physiological symptoms

Sooo confusing! Dr. Gundry basically (all but) recommends drinking olive oil. So much contradictory information out there..