NORMAL blood test, don't know where to go from here...

MightyFall · Mar 30, 2014

Here are a list of symptoms I've been experiencing since going low carb (Atkins/keto) in April 2013 (no health issues prior to this, all these symptoms manifested over a period of a few months despite reverting back to my old diet);

Intense brain fog
Lack of productivity
Short term memory loss (everything over the past year feels like a fog)
Poor attention span and concentration
Fatigue, lethargy (sleeping for 10-12 hours most nights, and napping 2-3 hours during the day)
Reactive hypoglycemia to all foods in all quantities (this varies)
Weakness in my left limbs
Frequent urination (every hour)
Erectile dysfunction and poor libido
Pale complexion
Shortness of breath
Stress response to exercise, strength and cardio
Fatigue subsiding only in the evenings, with an energy surge and better overall clarity
A tendency to rapidly gain fat around my abdominal area and hips
The inability to express or engage in emotions and general emotional detachment
Lack of motivation, ambition and drive

I've attempted everything, from Matt Stone to raw veganism. Even reverting back to low carb briefly and eliminating starch and sugar. I've noticed I feel better with an increased protein intake but definitely not optimal. Also tried moderate carb and intermittent fasting.

According to my doctor, I am not hypothyroid, neither do I have abnormal or low cortisol levels (adrenal fatigue). All my organs seem to be functioning normally. I am not deficient in minerals or vitamins. My iron levels are great. Fasting glucose is also optimal.

I am a 24 year old male, 5'9 and 160 lbs. I eat approximately 2000 calories a day and I am sedentary. Mostly low fat protein sources and a mixture of starch and sugar. This diet generally worked fine for me prior to my ultimate failure - low carb.

Suggestions and opinions appreciated.

north · Mar 30, 2014

Optimal according to your doctor is probably not optimal in real life. Stuff my doctors have told me are ridiculous.
I was in you situation 3-4 months ago, went to doctors, they told me it was good while i most definitely knew i did not feel good.

Starting Peat was a dramatic change for me. Brainfog, memory, mood changed over 2 days!
My symptoms were/are pretty much exactly like yours.
I too probably induced my current state by overtraining and eating crap like nuts, salmon, oils, whatever fancy #cleaneating #yolo foods people talk about in fitness crowds.
IF in combination with tredy crap foods was the last blow for me and put me in dark places.

If you can post your test results it would be helpful.

My suggestion, if you havent already, is to read up on Ray Peats work a lot. You can also start by reading Hair Like a Fox by Danny Roddy. He covers all the basics pretty well in that book. I think its available free as pdf.

aguilaroja · Mar 30, 2014

MightyFall said:
Here are a list of symptoms I've been experiencing since going low carb (Atkins/keto) in April 2013 (no health issues prior to this, all these symptoms manifested over a period of a few months despite reverting back to my old diet)....

Suggestions and opinions appreciated.

I wonder if the main with the Atkins/ketogenic event was the amino acid proportion. Most high protein plans have meat(flesh) sources, higher in "stress" amino acids. It may help to review the article on gelatin, and begin incorporating gelatin/bone broths into the diet.

Please think also about tracking pulse and temperature for more data about thyroid status.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/gelatin.shtml

"The amino acids that constitute protein have many hormone-like functions in their free state. When our glucose (glycogen) stores have been depleted, we convert our own tissue into free amino acids, some of which are used to produce new glucose. The amino acids cysteine and tryptophan, released in large quantities during stress, have antimetabolic (thyroid-suppressing) and, eventually, toxic effects. Hypothyroidism itself increases the catabolic turnover of protein, even though general metabolism is slowed."

http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/trypt ... ging.shtml

"Muscle catabolism also releases a large amount of cysteine, and cysteine, methionine, and tryptophan suppress thyroid function (Carvalho, et al., 2000)."

MightyFall · Mar 30, 2014

Well I can't restrict my protein intake as mentioned in my post as it worsens my fatigue and intensifies my brain fog.

I am also lactose intolerant so can't get much of my protein sources from dairy. I don't like organ meats or too many eggs. Beef and lamb and my main sources of protein.

aguilaroja · Mar 30, 2014

MightyFall said:
Well I can't restrict my protein intake as mentioned in my post as it worsens my fatigue and intensifies my brain fog....Beef and lamb and my main sources of protein.

It is changing the proportion of amino acids that make up the total protein content (rather than reducing protein intake) that is being suggested to investigate. It's good that the protein is sufficient already. Proteins include amino acid building blocks. The amino acid "balance" in meat is different from dairy, and especially different from the connective tissue (collagen) sources of protein (gelatin/bone broths/oxtail soup, etc.)

If gelatin/bone broth is not practical, though it's less "classically" Peat-y, you could consider glycine and BCAA powders to shift the amino acid proportions. One moderator here has a separate site that lists good suppliers for nutrients:

http://www.toxinless.com/
http://www.toxinless.com/collagen

(I use gelatin rather than the hydrolyzed collagen powders.)

If beef and lamb are the staple foods, you might consider getting the blood test for ferritin, to see if the iron stores are very high. You can read posts here and by Dr. Peat about iron excess. One "informal" test if iron stores are high is to donate blood, and see if your symptoms improve after that.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/iron-dangers.shtml

I am not saying that either factor is the main thing, only that it's one avenue to explore.

SQu · Mar 31, 2014

Totally agree on amino acids. It's worth the effort to change protein sources. I low carbed for years and think that in terms of damage, after the glycogen / blood sugar problems it caused, next on the list was bad amino acid proportions.

Mittir · Mar 31, 2014

MightyFall said:
I am also lactose intolerant so can't get much of my protein sources from dairy. I don't like organ meats or too many eggs. Beef and lamb and my main sources of protein.

Casein is a protein with extra health benefits, particularly it's slow absorption and
anti-stress property. Most cheese are free of lactose or there is negligible amount of
lactose. Lactose intolerant people should be able to eat good amount of cheese unless they
have problem with histamine in old cheese. Fresh cheese like cottage cheese ( without additive
and without vegetable rennet) and farmer's cheese are safe.

If one choose to eat a lot of muscle meat then adding extra calcium will be needed to
prevent phosphorus poisoning. Some gelatine with muscle meat will lower tryptophan ratio.

Spokey · Mar 31, 2014

Hello,

Have you had any head trauma in the past, or intercraneal surgeries? If your doctor has ruled out infections then,

You might have a calcium phosphorus imbalance from what you said you eat. I'd try egg shell calcium.

How's your salt?
Do you eat fruit?

I think calcium, sodium, potassium and magnesium are all things you might need to think about as it sounds like the blood tests for minerals were worthless.

And what exactly was your iron status recorded as?

MightyFall · Mar 31, 2014

Spokey said:
Hello,

Have you had any head trauma in the past, or intercraneal surgeries? If your doctor has ruled out infections then,

You might have a calcium phosphorus imbalance from what you said you eat. I'd try egg shell calcium.

How's your salt?
Do you eat fruit?

I think calcium, sodium, potassium and magnesium are all things you might need to think about as it sounds like the blood tests for minerals were worthless.

And what exactly was your iron status recorded as?

Not that I know of.

Salt is actually adequate. I eat large servings of fruit on a daily basis. Iron was "just right" (quoting my doctor).

Egg shells don't sound to appetising. I will consider increasing my diary intake aided with some digestive enzymes. I am also trying to incorporate gelatin into my diet (somehow). Will update with results.

jyb · Mar 31, 2014

MightyFall said:
Egg shells don't sound to appetising. I will consider increasing my diary intake aided with some digestive enzymes. I am also trying to incorporate gelatin into my diet (somehow). Will update with results.

Technically, you'd take powdered eggshell as a tiny fraction of a teaspoon, so you might not even feel it with a single gulp. High calcium (by the official daily intake standards) is really key in the Peat's framework.

Kray · Mar 31, 2014

Mittir said:
MightyFall said:

I am also lactose intolerant so can't get much of my protein sources from dairy. I don't like organ meats or too many eggs. Beef and lamb and my main sources of protein.

Click to expand...

Casein is a protein with extra health benefits, particularly it's slow absorption and
anti-stress property. Most cheese are free of lactose or there is negligible amount of
lactose. Lactose intolerant people should be able to eat good amount of cheese unless they
have problem with histamine in old cheese. Fresh cheese like cottage cheese ( without additive
and without vegetable rennet) and farmer's cheese are safe.

If one choose to eat a lot of muscle meat then adding extra calcium will be needed to
prevent phosphorus poisoning. Some gelatine with muscle meat will lower tryptophan ratio.

Hi Mittir, me again!

I just posted on your Benadryl & Serotonin thread from last year. I don't know if you will see that (I'm new to this forum and don't know how people are notified when someone posts to a thread, especially if I don't use "reply", but simply "quote" the person I'm sending something to), so I am replying on this more recent related thread.. Thanks, and sorry for the duplicated entries.

(my questions from the earlier thread are below)

Can you please help me? I am one who has chronic allergy issues, and I am wanting to know more about the calcium. I have tried Benadryl but when used, I have taken the whole 25mg clear-gelcap. That seems like a whole lot if it can cause other problems, like you've mentioned above. I am trying to break a dermatitis flare-up that has been for a while now. I've made some adjustments in hormones and more vitamin A, B-complex, but I've never considered supplementing calcium because I thought I got more than enough on a Peat diet-- lots of dairy.

Would you be more specific about your 2000mg intake-- is that all in supplemental form in addition to your diet, or a mix between both?

How much do you supplement, what brand or form, and what foods high in calcium do you regularly have? I'd like to get a picture of your daily intake so that I can try this approach rather than having to rely on drugs, which I know have given me side effects.

As to phosphorus, what are the best foods to keep ratio to calcium in check?

It's been a while since you posted this; how do you find your allergies now after the calcium routine?

Thanks very much!

MightyFall · Apr 2, 2014

Can any one recommend any easy methods of gelatin consumption? Or any other method of balancing amino acid ratios?

Blossom · Apr 2, 2014

Forum member haidut has posted on the use of BCAA as one method of improving amino acid profile. Just this week I made some homemade gummy candy with 1 cup black cherry juice, 1/4 cup sugar and 6 tablespoons of gelatin. I just heated it in a glass bowl over a pot of boiling water(double boiler fashion) and then let it cool and harden in the refrigerator. It's convenient to carry with you if you are going to be out where mixing gelatin in a liquid is difficult. I think the great lakes hydrolyzed gelatin would probably work best. I used the red can and mine wasn't as smooth as I would have liked, but not bad for a first attempt. There are probably some better or at least more official recipes out there, I was just experimenting.

Kray · Apr 2, 2014

Blossom said:
Forum member haidut has posted on the use of BCAA as one method of improving amino acid profile. Just this week I made some homemade gummy candy with 1 cup black cherry juice, 1/4 cup sugar and 6 tablespoons of gelatin. I just heated it in a glass bowl over a pot of boiling water(double boiler fashion) and then let it cool and harden in the refrigerator. It's convenient to carry with you if you are going to be out where mixing gelatin in a liquid is difficult. I think the great lakes hydrolyzed gelatin would probably work best. I used the red can and mine wasn't as smooth as I would have liked, but not bad for a first attempt. There are probably some better or at least more official recipes out there, I was just experimenting.

Blossom,

Unless I read you wrong, I don't think the Great Lakes Green will work because it is non-gelling. I believe you'd have to stick with the red if you go with that brand. I wonder with a little more heating time if the orange would smooth out, just like good ol' Jello that seemed to take forever to thicken and dissolve. fyi :)

Blossom · Apr 2, 2014

Oh thanks classicallady! I do think I should have heated it longer definitely. I've only used the red can so I assumed it would still gel but thank you so much for pointing that out.

CellularIconoclast · Apr 2, 2014

How long have you tried some of these various diet solutions? I think raising metabolism with a more nutritious diet can be a slow process. For example, if T4 production had been very low but suddenly becomes 'just adequate', it could still take months to stabilize at the new higher level, as it's constantly getting cleared out of the blood.

MightyFall said:
Can any one recommend any easy methods of gelatin consumption? Or any other method of balancing amino acid ratios?

I just open an individual packet of KNOX gelatin into a cup of hot water, and add some salt and butter, and stir. Bone broth from a crock pot is much better, but a lot more work! Once my dog and I both tried some pure dry gelatin and it was horrible- we couldn't get the gel out of our mouths for hours. I feel really bad for testing my weird ideas on my dog without trying it first myself.

Kray · Apr 2, 2014

Blossom said:
Oh thanks classicallady! I do think I should have heated it longer definitely. I've only used the red can so I assumed it would still gel but thank you so much for pointing that out.

You are welcome! btw- do you read of forum members saying they can't tolerate any kind of gelatin- histamine reaction? Just wondering how common and if that is true intolerance or a symptom of other problems (hypo, ED, etc)? Thanks!

Blossom · Apr 2, 2014

classicallady said:
Blossom said:

Oh thanks classicallady! I do think I should have heated it longer definitely. I've only used the red can so I assumed it would still gel but thank you so much for pointing that out.

Click to expand...

You are welcome! btw- do you read of forum members saying they can't tolerate any kind of gelatin- histamine reaction? Just wondering how common and if that is true intolerance or a symptom of other problems (hypo, ED, etc)? Thanks!

Yes I have read that before but it seems highly individual. I'm not sure if it's a histamine or endotoxin reaction. I noticed personally once when I used the now brand it seemed to give me some nausea. I haven't had any problems with the great lakes red can though at all but I think the green can is supposed to be even easier to digest. I guess when your hypo a lot of things might be harder to digest so lightening the load is probably wise in many situations. I've contemplated trying the green can to see if I notice a difference. Thanks for the tip about the green can not gelling up, that would have been a bummer to try and make the candy with it and it not turn out. As for the various intolerance(many of which I've experienced) I must admit much still remains a mystery! I know a good metabolism can only help but it's interesting how we all have own own unique sensitivities.

thebigpeatowski · Apr 2, 2014

MightyFall said:
Can any one recommend any easy methods of gelatin consumption? Or any other method of balancing amino acid ratios?

MightyFall...I use Hydrolyzed Collagen (by Protein Peptides) which mixes very easily with OJ. It's a quick and easy way to boost protein and is very digestible.

Kray · Apr 2, 2014

Blossom said:
classicallady said:

Blossom said:

Oh thanks classicallady! I do think I should have heated it longer definitely. I've only used the red can so I assumed it would still gel but thank you so much for pointing that out.

Click to expand...

You are welcome! btw- do you read of forum members saying they can't tolerate any kind of gelatin- histamine reaction? Just wondering how common and if that is true intolerance or a symptom of other problems (hypo, ED, etc)? Thanks!

Click to expand...

Yes I have read that before but it seems highly individual. I'm not sure if it's a histamine or endotoxin reaction. I noticed personally once when I used the now brand it seemed to give me some nausea. I haven't had any problems with the great lakes red can though at all but I think the green can is supposed to be even easier to digest. I guess when your hypo a lot of things might be harder to digest so lightening the load is probably wise in many situations. I've contemplated trying the green can to see if I notice a difference. Thanks for the tip about the green can not gelling up, that would have been a bummer to try and make the candy with it and it not turn out. As for the various intolerance(many of which I've experienced) I must admit much still remains a mystery! I know a good metabolism can only help but it's interesting how we all have own own unique sensitivities.

Thanks for answering. That's why the forum is so helpful. You never know when that needle in the haystack might be YOURS! :)

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