Mini-Wheat Devil & Condensed Milk Glory

cmdshiftdel

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I have a confession to make- it all started with an unwelcome box of mini wheats my fiancé bought last Monday. One unfortunate evening, when I was too lazy to overcome the convenient allure of cereal, I told myself, "well, at least they're frosted."

Within an hour of eating the bowl of mini wheats, intense cravings for more. I experienced the opiate effect I've heard about. Then, days of sudden acute depression. Mind you I couldn't stop eating the damn things that whole time. No exaggeration here, I spent 2 days at home from work in a daze, wanting to do nothing except sleep all day and eat mini wheats. I've had severe depression before and this was like being dropped right back into the midst of it.

Somehow I dragged myself to the supermarket and while walking down one of the aisles I experienced an intense craving for condensed milk. I went with my gut and bought a can, got home, opened up the can and dug right in. Half a can later I felt myself coming back to life, depression and lethargy fading. Hours later, I was my normal self.

I found the entire thing very curious and wanted to see what the forum thought - specifically what did the wheat deplete that the condensed milk restored?

I'm not planning to go near another box of wheat again, nor do I plan on guzzling cans of condensed milk for sport in the future, but if anyone has any idea what the heck happened to me I would appreciate the insight.

Thanks in advance!
 

pboy

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im not sure but I think cereals are hard to digest. The sugar on top is what was making you keep craving more...its the only part that your body saw as really valuable. I doubt you'd have eaten more than a bowl or two of plain shredded wheat. The condensed milk was probably a nutritional boost that was relatively pure and residue free, allowing your body not only energy but the ability to move down or deal with the difficult or indigested cereal. You could get into all the details of the hormones or gut type things that might have been going on...but I think it can be understood simply. The cereal is like half food half difficult or indigestible mass (the sugar on top being the food part) and therefore when you ate it it was like half good half bad, therefore never actually satisfying or allowing you a surplus to move and act in the day. The condensed milk was almost 100% food 0% difficult or indigestible, so it gave you back a surplus of energy to not only move or act but to create enough mucus to deal with and move the cereal
 

Blossom

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I confess that I have a similar reaction to wheat (all gluten actually) and feel like I'm disoriented and a bit paranoid if I eat it accidentally. I'm not sure what the condensed milk did for you but I'm glad it helped! I had read once that the gluten protein acts like morphine in some people's bodies, for example when there are gut permeability issues, and it has been attributed to things like autism and 'cerebral allergies'. I'm not sure what Peat's perspective on this issue is but I do know I've never read anything from him that recommends wheat or gluten as necessary for good health. I can't stand to feel the way I do when I eat it so I stear clear of it at all costs(plus I was told once I have celiac). Thanks for sharing your experience. It's good to know someone else has the same type of reaction!
 

HDD

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In the most recent herb doctor interview, a caller asks about gluten and I can't remember Peat's exact answer but I believe it has to do with the individual's health. It is not the main topic of the interview so it wasn't discussed in detail.

I confess to eating Cocoa Puffs and Captain Crunch with berries when others in my house are craving it. Last night it was C.C. And s'mores pop tarts. Both tasted so artificial that I couldn't eat them. I just drank the sugary, berry colored milk in the bowl that others throw out. ;)
 

Peata

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I've eaten frosted mini-wheats when visiting a relative who often has that for dinner. I usually have to eat two big bowls to feel satisfied. I don't have the extended problems you described, just that I don't think it holds me very long before I have to eat again.

A friend of mine recently mentioned if she eats cereal in the morning, she's hungry again an hour later. If she has it later in the day, she's OK.
 

Mittir

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Haagendazendiane said:
In the most recent herb doctor interview, a caller asks about gluten and I can't remember Peat's exact answer but I believe it has to do with the individual's health.

RP mentioned in several interviews that gluten if toxic to everyone and some are more
resistant to it than others and high estrogen causes gluten intolerance.
He also mentioned that soaking ( 12 hours) or sprouting
breaks down gluten and increases protein content. I do not feel too bad with home made pizza.
I do not think cereal makers soak flour for 12 hours.
 

narouz

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Haagendazendiane said:
In the most recent herb doctor interview, a caller asks about gluten and I can't remember Peat's exact answer but I believe it has to do with the individual's health. It is not the main topic of the interview so it wasn't discussed in detail.

In that recent interview
Peat wasn't very hard on gluten.
I've heard him be quite hard:
"It's not good for anybody" [I think that's close if not exact]
and he may've even called it "toxic"...?

In this KMUD interview he kinduv downplays gluten's dangers.
Instead, he discusses how inadequate thyroid, poor metabolism, poor nutrition, etc
lead to a situation in which gluten can be more dangerous or harmful.
 

BingDing

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I agree narouz, Peat has definitely slammed gluten at different times.

Isabella83, the way you told that story was just funny as hell, thanks! Brought down by frosted mini wheats, I can't stop laughing.

Please don't take offense, binge eating is scary, I know. But frosted mini wheats? I keep seeing those chippy commercials when I was a kid, wasn't there a tiger in there?

Whew!, I think I need some salt and a good nights sleep.

God bless,

BD
 

pboy

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based on a lot of past vegetarian experience, wheat is not that much different than other starches, its probably the heaviest besides maybe barley or rye, but its not a huge difference between wheat and any other starch. There are a lot of variables, many, that come into play regarding its digestion and how the body takes it...too many to mention here...but the simple way of looking at it is just by its viscosity, wheat can take more water before it becomes liquidy, it stretches unlike other starches (non gluten), its a little stickier...so for it to move through the intestine, compared to say rice flour or sugar, its much more likely to become clumpy or leave sticky residues, in the case of sugar theres pretty much no chance...simple cold water is enough to move sugar, where as wheat takes a lot of effort and warm water, if it gets dry its even worse. All starches are significantly more difficult than any sugar to move through the intestine and break down. Rice is naturally less gluey, almost none...its more dry and powdery, but still...something I found interesting that no one seems to talk about but is probably very important, is that when people in japan eat rice its almost always freshly cooked for the first time and they eat it right off the stove still hot, in a liquid hydrated form like soup or at least steamed and still fully hydrated. Never dry or after it gets sticky. On top of that, the noodle shape, and the way they eat it...slurp and swallow with little chewing, limits the chance the rice could cause stickiness and lead to endotoxin problems. A wet noodle slides way easier through the intestine than a dry pasty cracker, chewed mini wheat glob, bread...or something like that. Of course that's not always the case, but its pretty normal for most
 
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cmdshiftdel

cmdshiftdel

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Thank you all for the responses. I thought it most unusual as I occasionally have indulged in a sandwich when no other alternative was available and did not experience anything more than a slight feeling of sluggishness. With the mini wheats I noticed right away an intense craving for more and within a day, deep depression. DEEP depression. & maniacal cravings for more mini-wheats (i went through two boxes in two days).

I supplement with Cynomel, Progest E, pregnenolone, niacinamide, b vitamins, aspirin + vitamin k. I eat Peaty 80% or more of the time. I *hope* my estrogen is under control or on its way there.

My gut instinct is that there might be something to the wheat/opiate connection, and that maybe some of us are more susceptible than others. Whether its from estrogen excess or some other mechanism - I don't know.

I was curious if Peat had ever discussed this before - I know he recommends general avoidance for possible allergy issues, but wanted to pick the forums' brain for more.

BD - ha! no offense taken, but yes - those little devils took me down. i was a weepy, depressed mess and all i could think about was getting my next mini wheat fix. sounds ridiculous, but sadly, true lol.
 
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cmdshiftdel

cmdshiftdel

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ah - one last thing - anyone have anymore hunches as to why the condensed milk worked to snap me out of it?

Other than a headache the next morning, I was back to normal. No more depression, cravings for mini-wheats, and no cravings for more condensed milk (which I worried about as I was consuming it).

Seems like a sudden, massive amount of sugar jolted me back to normal. Can't complain about that, but wonder what else this would work for..
 

Peata

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For some reason, they can be "addicting". There are actually forums where people talk about this, often pregnant women I noticed, - going through a box per day and so on.

Here's the ingredient list if anyone's interested:

Whole grain wheat, sugar, contains 2% or less of brown rice syrup, gelatin, BHT for freshness.

Vitamins and Minerals: Reduced iron, niacinamide, vitamin B6 (pyridoxine hydrochloride), vitamin B2 (riboflavin), vitamin B1 (thiamin hydrochloride), zinc oxide, folic acid, vitamin B12.

I used to occasionally eat the large shredded wheat when I was a kid because my Dad liked them. It was like a "hay bale" of cereal, and I wouldn't doubt if the roll was larger then than now, like everything else. Anyway, we would sprinkle white sugar on them before pouring milk on them. On a rare occasion I would roll one in sugar and take it on the go. I never got addicted to these. Something about the Mini Wheats though... that perfect crunch and sugary coating texture.
 

Peata

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On the condensed milk, perhaps it gave a huge calorie boost and nutrition boost if your body was "starving" from the poor digestion of the cereal. If you put sweetened condensed milk in cronometer you can see it has * a lot * of nutrition in a small package.
 

pboy

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I tried to give a theory in my first post...its because for the body to move undigested food through the intestines, it requires energy and mucus (which is produced from mainly sugar). So the mini wheat were putting as much indigestible as they were nutrition to move it. The fatigue was probably your gut sending stress signals and for your energy to be limited in use, so the gut could use more of it to synthesize more mucus and peristals the cereal through. The condensed milk was an epic boost of energy without any indigestible itself, which would tax it, so then your body had a surplus of sugar to provide the intestine with enough energy and sugar to consolidate and propel the indigested cereal through...lessening the whole stress response cascade, and freeing up more energy and sugar for your brain and limbs to use
 

mt_dreams

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How is your intake of B vitamins? Maybe your body was in need of one of the B-vitamins, and the mini wheats intuitively fit the bill? I tend to have my wheat cravings when I haven't been hitting my folate or b1 from liver or oj for several days.

The conditions you felt after eating the cereal could have come from many things, not necessarily the gluten. The heat & pressure needed to make cereal is an abomination on wheat. This process produces wheat that is extremely high in iron and difficult to digest. The fact that the cereal is whole wheat, also puts a lot more strain on your body compared to white flour wheat.

For testing sake, if you feel adventurous, try eating white flour cake (without additives), or white bread made the traditional way, and see how comparable the symptoms are to your recent cereal symptoms.

it seems all my family & friends are bakers, and it was depressing watching everyone enjoy their cake while i was 100% gluten free. Thankfully I experimented with things and found out that the cakes made fresh with minimal ingredients from scratch, using white flour, had virtually none of the symptoms (lethargic, sore joints, in a daze, etc) that store bought processed wheat had. I still pop a couple of charcoal caps an hour or so after eating it to be safe, but it's definitely brought another thing to look forward to at parties.

re the condensed milk, possibly the influx of casein which has been shown to absorb compounds in the gut, helped removed something that piled up from the min wheats
 

Lilac

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Frosted Mini-Wheats or even the more natural Kashi versions of that kind of cereal were the number-one crazy, addictive food for me before I gave up wheat. I would start with one serving and keeping having more and more and more. It never gave me a full feeling. It was as if my stomach didn't even come into play. It was mouth, tongue, brain lights up, hand reaches for more. The only thing that kept me from finishing the box was shame. I knew this was crazy at the time, but I thought it was a matter of deliciousness or my big appetite. To this day, my mouth waters in a Pavlovian response when I pass that shelf in the supermarket. So glad to have that all behind me. I wouldn't dare touch it and do not want it.

I'll note that I could put away a lot of unsugared shredded wheat, too. There was something about the crunch and the texture. But the sugared kind was just crack for me.
 

haidut

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isabella83 said:
I have a confession to make- it all started with an unwelcome box of mini wheats my fiancé bought last Monday. One unfortunate evening, when I was too lazy to overcome the convenient allure of cereal, I told myself, "well, at least they're frosted."

Within an hour of eating the bowl of mini wheats, intense cravings for more. I experienced the opiate effect I've heard about. Then, days of sudden acute depression. Mind you I couldn't stop eating the damn things that whole time. No exaggeration here, I spent 2 days at home from work in a daze, wanting to do nothing except sleep all day and eat mini wheats. I've had severe depression before and this was like being dropped right back into the midst of it.

Somehow I dragged myself to the supermarket and while walking down one of the aisles I experienced an intense craving for condensed milk. I went with my gut and bought a can, got home, opened up the can and dug right in. Half a can later I felt myself coming back to life, depression and lethargy fading. Hours later, I was my normal self.

I found the entire thing very curious and wanted to see what the forum thought - specifically what did the wheat deplete that the condensed milk restored?

I'm not planning to go near another box of wheat again, nor do I plan on guzzling cans of condensed milk for sport in the future, but if anyone has any idea what the heck happened to me I would appreciate the insight.

Thanks in advance!

Eating nothing but mini wheats will probably create a protein imbalance as wheat is not a complete protein. It lacks a number of amino acids, even though one of them is tryptophan and it is good for tryptophan to be low.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 2708600668

Specific types of wheat have been shown to be deficient in some very important aminos like leucine/isoleucine and also the hydrolyzation process, which most wheat products go through destroys an unknown number of other aminos as well. Most likely some of the aminos destroyed by processing include tyrosine and phenylalanine, which are crucial for dopamine production. All in all, a processed food like mini wheats likely has very little protein nutritional value while being high in calories. So, when you eat it, your body is gearing up for a complete meal but gets something very lacking. Typically, when you ingest protein, the body tries to start protein synthesis (i.e. build more muscle). If some of the aminos are lacking, then that process will not work and you will probably crave foods with complete protein to correct the imbalance.
Since you have already noticed the opioid effect I won't discuss it, but withdrawal is common with opioid substances, and depression is a hallmark of withdrawal.
Finally, I will mention that wheat gets metabolized mostly to glucose. While the wheats may be frosted, the cumulative effect of the wheats will be mostly glucose entry into the blood, which will raise insuling too much, blood sugar will drop and you will be ravenous again very soon afterwards.
My recommendation is to listen to your body and eat the condensed milk whenever possible. I eat it often, but prefer to eat/drink evaporated milk, which has a bit more water and is still liquid so I can add instant coffee to it or other aminos like gelatin to make a super Peaty shake.
I personally hate grains and have never felt good after eating them. But there are people who do just fine. So, you have to find for yourself where you stand, but it looks like grains for you maybe also a non-starter.
 
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cmdshiftdel

cmdshiftdel

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Hey guys - thanks for all the responses - really learned some interesting things.

Mt-dreams - I did try just a slice of bread to see what would happen and of course nothing happened. The mini-wheat reaction seems isolated to mini-wheats. Funny enough, passing a box of the stuff at the supermarket did produce noticeable excess salivation & nervousness (no joke). I think I really had the opiate experience here. Its so retarded it happened over a box of mini-wheats, but it is what it is.

Haidut - how regularly do you consume condensed milk? Do you consume it as I do - straight out of the can as is, or incorporate it in recipes? I would LOVE to have some everyday, but worry about weight gain since at the moment I'm trying to whittle down my waist a bit and I seem to have an over fondness for the taste of it.
 

haidut

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isabella83 said:
Hey guys - thanks for all the responses - really learned some interesting things.

Mt-dreams - I did try just a slice of bread to see what would happen and of course nothing happened. The mini-wheat reaction seems isolated to mini-wheats. Funny enough, passing a box of the stuff at the supermarket did produce noticeable excess salivation & nervousness (no joke). I think I really had the opiate experience here. Its so retarded it happened over a box of mini-wheats, but it is what it is.

Haidut - how regularly do you consume condensed milk? Do you consume it as I do - straight out of the can as is, or incorporate it in recipes? I would LOVE to have some everyday, but worry about weight gain since at the moment I'm trying to whittle down my waist a bit and I seem to have an over fondness for the taste of it.

I buy fat-free or 2% condensed or evaporated milk. Lately I prefer evaporated for reasons posted above. I pour it into a big cup, add 2 tsp instant coffee and 2-3 tbsp of sugar. It becomes a yummy, high-protein, low-fat latte:):
 

Philomath

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Could the abrasive and bulky nature of mini wheats cause enough intestinal irritation to produce a large serotonin release? Serotonin may cause the addiction and depression symptoms. Evaporated milk is high in B vitamins, maybe enough B5 to lower histamine/serotonin response...
 

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