Enhancing Motivation And Overcoming "Learned Helplessness"

Ray-Z

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When you are sick, stressed, and hypothyroid, it can be difficult to muster the motivation for routine tasks, much less for long term projects like pursuing a degree, developing a new skill, assuming new responsibilities at work or at home, improving relations with loved ones, or repairing your body.

This thread will discuss some Peaty methods for enhancing motivation, which for many people will entail overcoming "learned helplessness."

In the words of psychologist Martin Seligman, learned helplessness is "the giving-up reaction, the quitting response that follows from the belief that whatever you do doesn't matter" (Seligman, Learned Optimism, p. 15). One of the papers cited in Peat's article, "Intelligence and Metabolism," calls learned helplessness "a behavioral depression caused by exposure to inescapable stress."

Here are Peat's thoughts about the origins of learned helplessness:

Ray Peat said:
Learned helplessness is a biological condition that is created by inescapable stress. In this state, animals that would normally swim for hours will stop swimming after a few minutes and allow themselves to drown. They simply don't have enough mental or physical energy to overcome challenges.

In learned helplessness, the level of serotonin is high, and an excess of serotonin helps to create the state of learned helplessness.

Serotonin activates glycolysis, forming lactic acid. Excess lactic acid tends to decrease efficient energy production by interfering with mitochondrial respiration.
("Serotonin, Depression, and Aggression: The Problem of Brain Energy")

Ray Peat said:
Stress early in life can impair learning, cause aggressive or compulsive behavior, learned helplessness, shyness, alcoholism, and other problems.
("Intelligence and Metabolism")


Peat mentions coffee, LSD, and anti-opiates as possible remedies for learned helplessness.

Ray Peat said:
Serotonin excess causes several of the features of depression, such as learned helplessness and reduced metabolic rate, while coffee stimulates the uptake (inactivation or storage) of serotonin, increases metabolic energy, and tends to improve mood. In animal studies, it reverses the state of helplessness or despair, often more effectively than so-called antidepressants.
("Caffeine: A Vitamin-Like Nutrient, or Adaptogen")

Ray Peat said:
Since LSD shifts the balance away from serotonin dominance toward dopamine dominance, its effect can be to erase the habits of learned helplessness.
("Intuitive Knowledge and Its Development")

Ray Peat said:
Stress and pain also leave their residue in the endorphin system, and the anti-opiates such as naloxone can relieve depression, improve memory, and restore disturbed pituitary functions...
("Intuitive Knowledge and Its Development")

In the fibromyalgia thread, Birdie said that she thinks low dose naltrexone (another anti-opiate) helps with learned helplessness. (Birdie: Please jump in if I'm misquoting you.)

Given serotonin's important role in promoting learned helplessness, I would be remiss if I did not include a link to the thoroughly fabulous thread on serotonin removal:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=249

OK, my coffee just wore off, so I'll stop now. :mrgreen:


Relevant articles by Ray Peat include the following:
"Serotonin, Depression, and Aggression: The Problem of Brain Energy" (http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/seratonin.shtml)
"Intelligence and Metabolism" (http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/intelligence.shtml)
"Intuitive Knowledge and Its Development" (http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/in ... edge.shtml)
"Caffeine: A Vitamin-Like Nutrient, or Adaptogen" (http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/caffeine.shtml)
 

charlie

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Re: Enhancing Motivation and Overcoming "Learned Helplessnes

Ray-Z, excellent post. As I read this, sometimes I feel like I am reading about me. Have a doctors appointment in a couple weeks and hopefully I can get him to test my serotonin.

Depressing, that something potentially so good for you, LSD, is huge trouble if you get caught with it. :banghead
 

kettlebell

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Re: Enhancing Motivation and Overcoming "Learned Helplessnes

leave their residue in the endorphin system

What exactly does Ray mean by this. Thinking about this comment it seems odd. Residue?

Also, Lisuride is basically LSD, it has been changed only slightly, chemically, so it was patentable and is in small doses in the tablet so it doesn't cause a "Trip". It is claimed that it would not cause a trip but that's not true - Take enough and it has the same effect as LSD itself. Im just guessing, but I bet that's why its harder to get hold of now as a drug, as "Party" people probably worked out that it had the same effect and started buying and popping lots of it "Legally".

Bromocriptine is very similar and was also developed from the work on LSD and has the same effect on serotonin and prolactin. They call it a "Dopamine agonist" as they cant be seen to say its a serotonin and prolactin antagonist.

If your doctor is open minded he might be persuaded to use bromocriptine after seeing high serotonin and prolactin levels. There is tons of research showing how effective it is at correcting hyperprolactinaemia and loweing serotonin levels.
 

charlie

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Re: Enhancing Motivation and Overcoming "Learned Helplessnes

I think he is open minded. We shall see.
 

Rachel

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Re: Enhancing Motivation and Overcoming "Learned Helplessnes

Yes, excellent post, Ray-Z.

I had made up a similar list of quotes to use as a reminder/reference. The quote you started things off with is at the top of the list.
Here's a few more to throw into the mix. I'm positive that some of these are also in the serotonin removal thread. If you are anything like me, repeated exposure to these ideas will help you to implant them in your cranium. :)

Ray Peat Wrote:
Many of the symptoms produced by excess serotonin are also the symptoms of hypothyroidism. Thyroid, progesterone, and high quality protein nutrition are central to protection against the serotonin syndromes. (Progesterone, like LSD, can inhibit the firing of serotonergic nerves, but an overdose, unlike LSD, never produces hallucinations.)
"Thyroid, insomnia, and the insanities: Commonalities in disease"

Ray Peat Wrote:
Chronic consumption of lithium blocks the release of adrenalin from the adrenal glands, and it also has extensive antiserotonin effects, inhibiting its release from some sites, and blocking its actions at others.
"Thyroid, insomnia, and the insanities: Commonalities in disease"

Ray Peat Wrote:
Carbon dioxide, high altitude, thyroid, progesterone, caffeine, aspirin, and decreased tryptophan consumption protect against excessive serotonin release. When sodium intake is restricted, there is a sharp increase in serotonin secretion. This accounts for some of the antiinflammatory and diuretic effects of increased sodium consumption--increasing sodium lowers both serotonin and adrenalin.
"Tryptophan, serotonin, and aging"

Ray Peat Wrote:
The varied antiinflammatory and protective effects of glycine can be thought of as an antiserotonin action. For example, serotonin increases the formation of TNF (tumor necrosis factor, also called cachectin), glycine inhibits it. In some situations, glycine is known to suppress the formation of serotonin. Antagonists of serotonin can potentiate glycine's effects (Chesnoy-Marchais, et al., 2000). People who ate traditional diets, besides getting a lower concentration of tryptophan, were getting a large amount of glycine in their gelatin-rich diet. Gelatin, besides being a good source of glycine, also contains a large amount of proline, which has some antiexcitatory properties similar to glycine.
"Tryptophan, serotonin, and aging"


http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/th ... ties.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/trypt ... ging.shtml
 

Rachel

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Re: Enhancing Motivation and Overcoming "Learned Helplessnes

Charlie said:
Depressing, that something potentially so good for you, LSD, is huge trouble if you get caught with it. :banghead
And anything you might find on the streets, you wouldn't want to take anyway, because you don't know what the f#%k is in it.
 

charlie

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Re: Enhancing Motivation and Overcoming "Learned Helplessnes

Well, I wasn't going to go on the streets and get it. You can get in on line these days. :lol: I am kidding, I wouldn't order in on line.

I was just saying, that it could potentially help a lot of people, but, I did not realize as kettlebell wrote above, that they basically made the same thing but without the tripping effects.
 

kettlebell

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Re: Enhancing Motivation and Overcoming "Learned Helplessnes

Increased sex drive (libido) and excessive interest or involvement in sexual activity (hypersexuality)

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/cancer/medic ... lodel.html

This is one of the listed side effects of Bromocriptine usage.

Thought I would share as it made me laugh. I love the word "Hypersexuality" Makes it sound like some sort of superhero ability.
 

charlie

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Re: Enhancing Motivation and Overcoming "Learned Helplessnes

Sign me up! :rolling
 

Rachel

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Re: Enhancing Motivation and Overcoming "Learned Helplessnes

Charlie said:
Well, I wasn't going to go on the streets and get it. You can get in on line these days. :lol: I am kidding, I wouldn't order in on line.
I didn't mean you, Charlie. This is what I should have written:
And anything that one might find on the streets, one wouldn't want to take anyway, because one doesn't know what the f#%k is in it.

:mrgreen:
 

charlie

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Re: Enhancing Motivation and Overcoming "Learned Helplessnes

And here I thought you were looking out for me. :cry:

On a serious note, great info and quotes you added above Rachel. Thank you!
 
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ratcheer

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Re: Enhancing Motivation and Overcoming "Learned Helplessnes

Ditto on that - great info and thanks for putting it together, Rachel.

I've been really interested in addressing the 'learned helplessness' thing pretty much from the beginning. Really my overall health has been pretty good (except for damage caused by low-carb dieting - ouch). My issues were always around attention, focus, energy, motivation - and this concept of learned helplessness has been a really interesting angle on the whole thing.

For me it even has a spiritual aspect - not only around areas of "meaning" but also how do I manifest changes in the world both for myself and others? How do I help change the world? If I'm sitting in the corner with no 'stick to bite' (hahaha) I'm not going to be helping anybody very much!
 
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Ray-Z

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Re: Enhancing Motivation and Overcoming "Learned Helplessnes

Thank you, Charlie. I hope some of this information proves useful. :mrgreen:

Kettlebell and Rachel: Terrific contributions. Thank you. :thankyou

kettlebell said:
I love the word "Hypersexuality" Makes it sound like some sort of superhero ability.

When you are hypersexual, a bunch of Rick James impersonators follow you everywhere you go, singing "Superfreak."

By the way, I've invented a cure for hypersexuality. It's called the low-carb diet. [Rimshot.]

Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all week. Try the oxtail soup, and don't forget to tip your waitress.
 

kettlebell

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Re: Enhancing Motivation and Overcoming "Learned Helplessnes

Ray-Z said:
Thank you, Charlie. I hope some of this information proves useful. :mrgreen:

Kettlebell and Rachel: Terrific contributions. Thank you. :thankyou

kettlebell said:
I love the word "Hypersexuality" Makes it sound like some sort of superhero ability.

When you are hypersexual, a bunch of Rick James impersonators follow you everywhere you go, singing "Superfreak."

By the way, I've invented a cure for hypersexuality. It's called the low-carb diet. [Rimshot.]

Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all week. Try the oxtail soup, and don't forget to tip your waitress.

:lol:

Don't thank me Ray-Z! You are responsible for this threads "Hyper" usefulness and for that I thank you.
 

narouz

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Re: Enhancing Motivation and Overcoming "Learned Helplessnes

From the same article quoted earlier in the thread, but with a bit more...

"The amazing speed with which young animals can solve problems is undoubtedly a reflection of their metabolic vigor, and it is probably partly because they haven't yet experienced the paralysis that can result from repeated or prolonged and inescapable stress. Many of the factors responsible for the metabolic intensity of youth can be used therapeutically, even after dullness has developed. The right balance of amino acids and carbohydrates, and the avoidance of the antimetabolic unsaturated fatty acids, can make a great difference in mental functioning, even though we still don't know what the ideal formulas are."

...whenever I've read this, I always pause at that word "paralysis."
Peat doesn't say "depression."
I suppose they could be interchanged, and the Peat might even regard them as interchangeable.

But, personally, the word "paralysis" grabs me,
because I've seldom assessed myself as "depressed" in a clinical sense.
But "paralyzed"...
...sometimes I've felt that way.
I've seldom experienced a prolonged sense of being overcome with grief and sadness and pain and tears,
or wanting to kill myself,
as would be associated with serious clinical depression...

...but I have sometimes felt "paralyzed,"
not in a physical sense,
but psychologically and emotionally--
extremely inert, almost unable to put one foot in front of the other
toward goals.
I guess it could also be described as a state of seeking shelter, withdrawing.
I've had some spells of that sort of thing.

Perhaps these are just different, milder degrees of what is commonly diagnosed as depression.

Another thing I've wondered about, apropos this thread, is:
after we do get to a better place physically,
in terms of metabolism, and in other Peatian biological ways...
...I wonder if we might almost need to sortuv "retrain" ourselves
by using certain exercises that have been touched on in other threads,
creative exercises--
the drawing on the right side of the brain creativity exercises,
movement exercises Peat has mentioned like QiJong and Tai Chi...

In other words: we tend to focus here so much upon the dietary and biological side of Peat.
I've wondered whether that can only carry us so far.
Maybe that's just the foundation
and we need to challenge ourself with creative exercises
in order to sortuv activate the physical/biological potential.

Or maybe I'm separating mind and body too much here.
Maybe as the body becomes more healthy,
so to will the mind....
 

charlie

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Re: Enhancing Motivation and Overcoming "Learned Helplessnes

narouz said:
Another thing I've wondered about, apropos this thread, is:
after we do get to a better place physically,
in terms of metabolism, and in other Peatian biological ways...
...I wonder if we might almost need to sortuv "retrain" ourselves
by using certain exercises that have been touched on in other threads,
creative exercises--
the drawing on the right side of the brain creativity exercises,
movement exercises Peat has mentioned like QiJong and Tai Chi...

In other words: we tend to focus here so much upon the dietary and biological side of Peat.
I've wondered whether that can only carry us so far.
Maybe that's just the foundation
and we need to challenge ourself with creative exercises
in order to sortuv activate the physical/biological potential.

Yes! Quoted for so much truth. :goodpost

I have started that part of my journey just recently. :D
 
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j.

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Re: Enhancing Motivation and Overcoming "Learned Helplessnes

"sortuv"?
 

charlie

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Re: Enhancing Motivation and Overcoming "Learned Helplessnes

Maybe he was trying to be gentle? :confused
 
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j.

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Re: Enhancing Motivation and Overcoming "Learned Helplessnes

I wouldn't want to push myself to do intellectually creative things. I've been productive in that aspect I'd say most on my life and the desire most often just came naturally.
 

narouz

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Re: Enhancing Motivation and Overcoming "Learned Helplessnes

About my post above--on "paralysis"...

Another way to see the same set of symptoms
might be "torpor."
Peat uses that word to describe one prominent biological result of PUFA toxicity.
By "torpor' he means to connect to the idea of hibernation,
which many animals do, "helped" by their high PUFA consumption.
 

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