I mixed aspirin powder with orange juice, and my stomach only hurt until many days later. I didn't know this was due to the aspirin, and I did this for a month or so with crippling stomach aches every single day until I stopped putting it in. When I stopped taking it, my stomach didn't stop hurting immediately, but it took a few days. Likewise, I also put aspirin powder in my coffee, and the same thing occurred. RP recommended dissolving it in warm water, but the powder does not dissolve completely even in plain warm water, but there is flakes of aspirin floating in it. Does it take time for it to dissolve? Do I need to filter out the undissolved flakes? I have no idea what I'm doing wrong, and nobody on this forum has ever had such a complaint. There was no bleeding, and my stomach rarely hurt in the past. The reason why it could take many days for the stomach to start and stop hurting could be explained by undigested flakes of aspirin building up slowly, and slowly leaving. Some member on this forum recommended adding aspirin to orange juice, but I have no idea how the smallest amount of aspirin could dissolve in cold orange juice.
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Aspirin Powder And Severe Stomach Aches
- Thread starter Ben
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unexamined_whimsy
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Sounds like you have damaged your gastric mucosa because of ingesting too-much-too-soon aspirin (especially in an acidic medium). The stomach lining takes time to adapt to high doses of aspirin. In order to mitigate the damaging aspects of aspirin you could consider transforming it first into sodium salicylate, by reacting aspirin with baking soda.
I did use baking soda when I added aspirin to the orange juice and made it a little alkaline even, but still my stomach hurt a lot and wasn't adapting over several weeks. It sounds viable that it may have damaged my stomach mucosa and that explains the delay in pain coming and going away. So are aspirin crystals floating around in the solution something everyone has dealt with without stomach issues? If the inside of the crystals that aren't dissolved are still acidic, then they may still sit there and cause irritation. For orange juice I added maybe 1/2 tsp of aspirin per 2 quarts carton, but I drank a portion of the crystals on the first sip because they weren't dissolved. Is this basically the issue, drinking them like this in one sip? I also don't know how many grams are in a tsp, or what speed it's safe to increase the dosage.unexamined_whimsy said:
unexamined_whimsy
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To put things in context, I too struggled manfully with the gastric after-effects of aspirin: many weeks of loose bowels and lower abdominal discomfort. Subsequently, I too went the route of dissolving it in coffee and orange juice, but to no avail. Fortunately, I gave up on aspirin for a while, allowing my tummy to heal. Finally, what worked was aspirin in plain water and then adding baking soda till the solution becomes silent.
I believe your suspicions are correct: aspirin does the most damage when the crystals make direct contact with a membrane. Once the acidity of orange juice is neutralized with baking soda it tastes particularly foul so I wonder if you had indeed made it alkaline. A priori, it's probably difficult to assess the prevailing ionic equilibrium when orange juice is thrown in the mix.
Regarding dose, since I don't know the size of crystals it would be best to weigh it using a micro scale. I think taking 3-500mg as a starting dose and increasing it by 100mg every three days would be sensible. However, I think you should be conscious of aspirin's potential to increase metabolism at high doses.
I believe your suspicions are correct: aspirin does the most damage when the crystals make direct contact with a membrane. Once the acidity of orange juice is neutralized with baking soda it tastes particularly foul so I wonder if you had indeed made it alkaline. A priori, it's probably difficult to assess the prevailing ionic equilibrium when orange juice is thrown in the mix.
Regarding dose, since I don't know the size of crystals it would be best to weigh it using a micro scale. I think taking 3-500mg as a starting dose and increasing it by 100mg every three days would be sensible. However, I think you should be conscious of aspirin's potential to increase metabolism at high doses.
I don't have a micro scale, maybe it's time to get one. Hopefully nobody will think I'm weighing illegal stuff, haha. I would preferably take it 3x daily, and in warm water, maybe 8 fl oz each time. Baking soda should slightly exceed aspirin in mass for neutralization if my estimation is correct. I probably shouldn't take the mixture around the time I drink cold orange juice since it might cause the aspirin to crystallize in my stomach.
The dosage and the rate of increase do sound small considering pain relievers contain 325 mg of aspirin per tablet, and tablets cause much more irritation than sodium salicylate dissolved in water. Have you had bad experiences increasing it faster?
The dosage and the rate of increase do sound small considering pain relievers contain 325 mg of aspirin per tablet, and tablets cause much more irritation than sodium salicylate dissolved in water. Have you had bad experiences increasing it faster?
unexamined_whimsy
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My overall experience with aspirin is that it revved up my metabolism much like thyroid, which wasn't positive because it ramped up estrogen.
I could eventually tolerate more, sooner but it goes against same judgement to commend otherwise.
I could eventually tolerate more, sooner but it goes against same judgement to commend otherwise.
I think caffeine and thyroid can increase estrogen if more is taken than the individual is ready for. I haven't heard about it for aspirin though. I guess it is possible since it increases the metabolism as well. It has a lot of protective effects which I presume would make it a safer substance to increase metabolism than caffeine or thyroid, because it reduces lipolysis, excitation, and the prostaglandins. What makes you think aspirin increased your estrogen anyway, the way you felt or a blood test? It would probably require a very high increase in metabolic rate because aspirin inhibits aromatase normally if I remember correctly.
I have an excess of stress hormones/excitation/estrogen (presumably, because I have anxiety and because temperature, blood pressure, and pulse is usually too high when I try to donate blood) and hypothyroidism. I don't think I'm being treated with enough thyroid as of yet either. I wonder if aspirin or caffeine is good for health if a person has ideal thyroid function (any more thyroid would increase cortisol and estrogen). Aspirin or caffeine should be the equivalent to thyroid in this case because they also increase metabolic rate. It's worth stating I get a helplessness/demotivation/melancholic reaction from caffeine. A little makes me feel a little shitty, a lot makes me feel suicidal. I wonder if it's due to a allergy or due to the already excessive stress hormones. I actually never feel helpless/suicidal normally though, I have lots of spirit maybe because of the same stress hormones. They are impacting my mitochondria though, and as a result I developed rosacea in the last year or so (RP wrote an article about it, if you haven't read it). I don't know about any other easily accessible protective substances, so I looked to aspirin again. Hopefully I will be able to tell which dosage is best, if it's not the biggest dose without toxicity.
I have an excess of stress hormones/excitation/estrogen (presumably, because I have anxiety and because temperature, blood pressure, and pulse is usually too high when I try to donate blood) and hypothyroidism. I don't think I'm being treated with enough thyroid as of yet either. I wonder if aspirin or caffeine is good for health if a person has ideal thyroid function (any more thyroid would increase cortisol and estrogen). Aspirin or caffeine should be the equivalent to thyroid in this case because they also increase metabolic rate. It's worth stating I get a helplessness/demotivation/melancholic reaction from caffeine. A little makes me feel a little shitty, a lot makes me feel suicidal. I wonder if it's due to a allergy or due to the already excessive stress hormones. I actually never feel helpless/suicidal normally though, I have lots of spirit maybe because of the same stress hormones. They are impacting my mitochondria though, and as a result I developed rosacea in the last year or so (RP wrote an article about it, if you haven't read it). I don't know about any other easily accessible protective substances, so I looked to aspirin again. Hopefully I will be able to tell which dosage is best, if it's not the biggest dose without toxicity.
unexamined_whimsy
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In my case, high dose aspirin caused an inordinate increase in my T and SHBG levels (as measured by bloodwork) and I could observe water retention in all the usual places. (I don't usually measure E2 levels as they don't measure the tissue concentration of estrogen, which is what really counts.) Things reverted to normal once I got off the aspirin. The studies about aspirin and estrogen have thus far focused on aspirin ability to lower the activity of aromatase. It appears that the attenuation provided is not a scratch on the flood of testosterone that is liable to aromatise. From experience I fear that it doesn't take much thyroid, nor aspirin for that matter, to adversely affect estrogen and so one should heed Raymond's advice to start with very, very minuscule doses. I find that I need to accord the same degree of trepidation to coffee as well for similar reasons.
The men that benefit from thyroid supplementation with regards to lowering estrogen are those that have frank, open-and-shut hypothyroidism, not the kind of borderline or subclinical thyroid dysfunction that plagues the majority of the gentlemen frequenting this forum. There is a good deal of literature on thyrotoxicosis and induced hyperthyroidism that consistently shows the increase in muscle catabolism, elevated estrogen and SHBG, gynecomastia and lower free-T levels. Indeed there are more straightforward ways of improving things of improving your thyroid and T/E ratio such as zinc and DHT, the latter being known to lower thyroid binding globulin as well. I think in this community we tend to obsess about thyroid metabolism to the detriment of the other endocrinal axes.
Giving blood is probably something the being senses as impending stress and raises its stress hormones accordingly.
The men that benefit from thyroid supplementation with regards to lowering estrogen are those that have frank, open-and-shut hypothyroidism, not the kind of borderline or subclinical thyroid dysfunction that plagues the majority of the gentlemen frequenting this forum. There is a good deal of literature on thyrotoxicosis and induced hyperthyroidism that consistently shows the increase in muscle catabolism, elevated estrogen and SHBG, gynecomastia and lower free-T levels. Indeed there are more straightforward ways of improving things of improving your thyroid and T/E ratio such as zinc and DHT, the latter being known to lower thyroid binding globulin as well. I think in this community we tend to obsess about thyroid metabolism to the detriment of the other endocrinal axes.
Giving blood is probably something the being senses as impending stress and raises its stress hormones accordingly.
Interesting that you noticed something like water retention, I never noticed anything like that. I didn't see any study that showed aspirin increases testosterone, but it makes sense that it would increase it the same way thyroid would, which would be by increasing gonad metabolism.
I wonder why you mentioned DHT, it's a controlled substance if I remember correctly, and I'm not aware of any supplements that increase it. In fact, zinc reduces 5-AR along with aromatase. When it comes to zinc, taking it gives me a headache, and fatigue if I take it without copper. But they both seemed to make me feel sick to my stomach, and to this day the thought of taking them makes me feel uneasy. I could always try out oysters for the metals, but that might make me feel just as uneasy, hehe. RP normally recommends them for anemic people, but my hemoglobin, hematocrit, and RBC came out above-normal despite hypothyroidism at the time. Maybe I have high amounts of both testosterone and estrogen.
No issues so far with the aspirin. I dissolve the aspirin in 8 fl oz of hot water and add enough baking soda for sodium acetylsalicylate synthesis, then drink it after many minutes of settling. I'll do this 3x daily, and slowly increase the dosage, while judging how I feel from it. Did you notice any negative effects other than the water retention?
I wonder why you mentioned DHT, it's a controlled substance if I remember correctly, and I'm not aware of any supplements that increase it. In fact, zinc reduces 5-AR along with aromatase. When it comes to zinc, taking it gives me a headache, and fatigue if I take it without copper. But they both seemed to make me feel sick to my stomach, and to this day the thought of taking them makes me feel uneasy. I could always try out oysters for the metals, but that might make me feel just as uneasy, hehe. RP normally recommends them for anemic people, but my hemoglobin, hematocrit, and RBC came out above-normal despite hypothyroidism at the time. Maybe I have high amounts of both testosterone and estrogen.
No issues so far with the aspirin. I dissolve the aspirin in 8 fl oz of hot water and add enough baking soda for sodium acetylsalicylate synthesis, then drink it after many minutes of settling. I'll do this 3x daily, and slowly increase the dosage, while judging how I feel from it. Did you notice any negative effects other than the water retention?
unexamined_whimsy said:
From my personal experience, I'm starting to question whether estrogen is a problem rather than serotonin (although their effect is not independent). Am I correct to say, in the more pronounced hypothyroidism (metabolic issue from birth - not a temporary crash due to lifestyle or bad diet), that bodily symptoms (such as weight in some area) tends to be more estrogen related, and brain issues (lethargy, insomnia) more serotonin related? In the latter case, and only in that case, would anti-serotonin drugs be needed initially. Just a random thought from personal experience and some testimonials I've seen.
unexamined_whimsy
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Ben said:
Things that reduce estrogen tend to increase DHT in men, the activity of 5aR notwithstanding probably again because the substrate is so overwhelming. There is the claim that protodioscin found in tribulus terrestris and fenugreek increases DHT, but these herbs are also considered to be somewhat pro estrogenic and prolactogenic as a whole. Anyway topical DHT is considered safe by Raymond.
That could mean you are zinc replete or you could experiment with an enteric coated zinc preparation and/or change the salt.
High estrogen often occurs with high testosterone like most bodybuilders experience. Sub clinical hypothyroidism often occurs with elevated free testosterone levels which could be behind your elevated hematological parameters. Another possibility is an occult steroid in an otherwise innocent supplement you are taking. It could also be that you absorb iron too efficiently from food.
Nothing adverse but the constellation of estrogenic effects with regards to the aspirin.
unexamined_whimsy
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jyb said:
I don't really feel equipped to answer your question with any real rigor. However, I do agree with you. Consider that my experience suggests that when estrogen is high, serotonin is almost always out of whack. I fixed my puzzling recent aversion to plain milk by ingesting a zinc supplement for a few days. Otherwise I had to keep my regularly bloated tummy in good spirits by taking periactin. I find cyproheptadine to be very calmative, both digestive and emotionally, without any negative side effects save gluttony. It also guarantees a most restful sleep that sets the stage for days to come.
Do you take cyproheptadine daily? And how much and what time of the day do you take it?unexamined_whimsy said:
I started taking it a couple weeks ago and I have been taking it daily since then, but thinking maybe I need to cycle it.
unexamined_whimsy
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Charlie said:
Only 4mg SOS, before bedtime. The frequency being once in a fortnight. It does lose its efficacy after taking it the first few times but increasing the dose slightly does the trick. My mum has been taking the same dose (divided) for quite some time now, and does well on it.
Ben said:
Ben, creatine increases DHT and from I can see the increase is over 50% and it persists after discontinuing the creatine intake.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19741313
Creatine also reduces serotonin, but the study claims it only does so in combination with exercise. So, since exercise typically elevates serotonin due to increased lipolysis, maybe creatine just brought it back to normal levels by reducing the increase over baseline.
http://www.redalyc.org/articulo.oa?id=93024967008
I saw the study that showed creatine increases DHT some time ago. What I found worrisome though was that there are some reports of creatine causing erectile dysfunction. There's a source that claims it's due to the liver being strained to detoxify creatine, and indeed this could cause a buildup of estrogen which could lead to erectile dysfunction. I saw nothing on the effect of creatine on estrogen levels, and I noticed supplements that increased DHT also tended to increase estrogen, so I avoided creatine. There was also no explanation to how creatine increases DHT. DHT is a hormone that increases sex drive, so apparently some negative effect is severe enough to counterbalance such a big increase in DHT's effects on sex drive. The problem wasn't just erectile dysfunction, but someone found it hard to be "mentally sexually stimulated". I saw more examples from message boards, but I can't find them right now.haidut said:
Apparently creatine raises the level of antioxidant enzymes in the liver, so I wouldn't expect it to strain the liver. I didn't find any study that showed the effect of creatine on estrogen.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24325803
So haidut, do you think the reports of creatine causing erectile dysfunction and low sexual interest are valid reasons for concern? Have you ever tried creatine yourself? I consider trying it to boost my muscle gains from weightlifting, but I don't know if it's "Peaty". Usually Peaty stuff boosts libido.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24325803
So haidut, do you think the reports of creatine causing erectile dysfunction and low sexual interest are valid reasons for concern? Have you ever tried creatine yourself? I consider trying it to boost my muscle gains from weightlifting, but I don't know if it's "Peaty". Usually Peaty stuff boosts libido.
Ben said:
I asked some people that were taking it and they all said that they felt no improvement on creatine. Some did feel decreased libido. So, not sure what to make of it but given its claims of raising ATP "reserves" I am sure that if it was something good then Ray would be writing about it. I have not seen anything from Ray on creatine, so I'll wait until he writes about it.
DaveFoster
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That dosing regimen is a good way to destroy your intestines.
Studies show that stomach tolerance to aspirin does not develop within the first two weeks in some individuals.
sladerunner69
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Yes as a weightlifter I ahve taken creatin plenty of times, when I was younger I would take loads of it with no particular diet other than tons of protein. It would generally give me some more energy for a few hours, followed by irritability and a general "blank" feeling in my head. I associate creatine with lowerred emotional senses.
After taking creating again on a peaty diet, I found similar issues. It gives an empty emotional feeling, with some irritability, but also a fair amount of drive. I think it raises DHT but is brudensome on the lvier or kidneys.
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