Niacinamide Problems: What Does It Say About My Health?

managing

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I recently mentioned that I've had trouble with niacinamide making me drowsy. SuchSaturation suggested I try it with sugar. I did.

It made me a little tired, which was solved by eating a meal shortly thereafter. Day two I repeated. A little tired. Some food. Better.

By evening on day two I was developing a headache and eating ravenously. Wanted ice cream both nights, which I normally don't eat.

That night, couldn't go to sleep. Mind racing, anxious, worried. 3mg progesterone. Calmer, not sleeping. 6mg more. Fell asleep. Woke up early in the morning with a pounding, migraine-like headache. That means base of the neck radiating to eye sockets. Pounding and pulsing with movement or heartbeat. Not as bad as a true migraine, but same symptoms. Say a 5 on a scale of 10 (true migraine is a 9-10).

Day three, low grade headache, slight fog all day. Felt better but not great after dinner.

That night (last night) woke up with pounding headache again (7/10). Hot, so hot. 73F in bedroom, wife under comforter. Me radiating heat (but not much sweat) w/ no blankets. Yet my temp was 97.7 which is low for me. BG was 94 which is a common fasting BG for me. Racing pulse. Clearly dumping adrenaline into the bloodstream. Tinnitus very pronounced (always is w/ low BG) Pounded 6 oz OJ and applied 10mg topical pregnenolone. Went back to sleep for an hour. Woke up pounding headache (8/10). Pounded 8 oz OJ, applied 5mg topical pregnenolone, fell quickly back to sleep. For an hour. Same symptoms. Pounded 10 oz of OJ. Slept for 1.5 hr. Got up and had breakfast (coffee, eggs, OJ). Head is a dull 5/10 right now. Pulse normal. Feel ok, not great.

So, I am attributing this to the niacinamide. Here are a couple of potential twists:

Sex late afternoon on day two (not long before headache and ravenous eating). Slightly earlier on day two consumed a large amount of black tea (two pots) so lots of theanine. I don't normally drink tea or take theanine. Obviously either or both of these things may have aggravated. Also, went to pool early that day and got a good 45 minutes or so direct sun.

In the grand scheme of things, I don't really care if I can tolerate niacinamide. But I am curious what it says about my general state? I am also interested in how to arrest an episode like this (which I also got when I was taking t3 even in very small doses) before it goes on for days.

A little background: I drink lots of OJ and milk during the day, along with some yogurt and small amounts of salame, chocolate, etc. Mornings are eggs, oj, coffee, every day. Dinners are usually (not always though) low starch, but include protein and fruit/other sugar sources. Fairly high on the peat scale, but I don't consume much gelatin, coconut oil, liver. I take few supplements, as any regularity gives me funky results. I try to take A, E, D, eggshell, K a few times a week. I take pregnenolone regularly (beyond a century) and progesterone (perfect progesterone) most evenings before bed. I've had blood sugar issues and have previously been low carb.

I take no thyroid. My morning temps are usually around 98 to 98.2. Daytime temps are usually around 98.4, but occasionally spike over 99. At 98.4 sometimes I am quite comfortable. Other times my hands and feet get cold (if I am inactive). Pulse is usually around 78-84.
 

Blossom

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I'm unable to consume black tea or plain green tea without plenty of sugar or honey and cream or milk. I know this doesn't address the entirety of your post but just wanted to mention that.
 
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Blossom: What happens if you do? I did use cream. I remember having some mild "heartburn" that evening, which is rare for me.
 

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managing said:
Blossom: What happens if you do? I did use cream. I remember having some mild "heartburn" that evening, which is rare for me.
It seemed like a stress reaction. Frequent urination and irritability are classic signs for me. I had sugar but no cream or milk when it happened. I was baffled at first but then read on the general dietary guidelines that tea should be taken with cream or milk and sugar/honey and realized that was my problem.
 

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I do best with lower dose niacinamide. I know everyone is different though and I'm not sure how much you take but you can always try lowering the niacinamide to 50 mg 2-3 times daily to see if that helps. I'm currently doing well on 100 mg 3 times daily always with food.
 
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Niacinamide gives me fatigue also.It makes me feel calm but I also have some type of rebound reaction about 10 hours after taking it.
 
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This is where conventional medicine would say "Some people are genetically predisposed to niacinamide intolerance". I am proud nobody has tried that. But it has to be telling us something.

We already have sufficient niacin so supplementation creates a simple excess? Niacin requires a cofactor in which we are deficient and therefore it "steals" it from another essential process? When sugar is already used inefficiently, niacin aggravates the inefficiency?

And of course, what to do? Obviously, avoid in the short term if it gives you bad results. But I can't help feeling that this is giving us a clue about how to improve energy production . . .
 
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Blossom: Have you ever taken theanine? I wonder if its the theanine, caffeine, polyphenols, something else?
 
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If you aren't able to get sugar to your cells fast enough, progesterone and pregnenolone are just going to aggravate the symptoms. Introduce things slowly. And when your thyroid is going up, it's normal to have about a week of excess adrenaline (it was needed when hypothyroid). One cup of tea gives me headaches, remember one bag left for over three minutes brings the content over the safe limits of many metals. Two pots is a lot of metals even though all the polyphenols might make them inert.
 

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managing said:
Blossom: Have you ever taken theanine? I wonder if its the theanine, caffeine, polyphenols, something else?
I'm guessing polyphenols in my case. I've tried theanine and tolerated that well. When I was on that dreadful low carb paleo diet I reacted severely to phenols. I can tell I've recovered from that a lot but there are a few remaining issues that I'm sure will take time to completely heal. It's amazing to me the human bodies capacity to recover when provided with the right environment. I had given up on being able to take niacinamide at one point and now I never go without it! I think you are on to something when you say it is telling when we don't seem to tolerate it. I suspect it might be the inability to utilize sugars for fuel adequately for those of us who have been low carb prior to Peat.
 

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My vote would be your 3rd possibility. And I agree it may be a valuable clue for you. Seems for some of us it tells us glucose handling is worse than we thought. I can take a lot more niacinamide now than a few months back, so it does improve. Still got a long way to go though. Currently I'm revisiting notes on potassium requirements for handling glucose. Agree with such saturation on pregnenolone, gives me a big headache for I think the same reason.
 
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such_saturation: "If you aren't able to get sugar to your cells fast enough, progesterone and pregnenolone are just going to aggravate the symptoms. "

Hmmmm. I've definitely seen that with progesterone. For me, 3-6mg is a big dose. I wake groggy and stumble to the bathroom in the middle of the night. I have to be careful to note my pulse when I do that. If it jumps too much (ie, adrenaline), I go to the kitchen for a splash of sugar because 6mg of progesterone before bedtime can make me sleep right through the adrenaline, or even fall back to sleep in spite of it.

But when I have had migraine like headaches in the past, pregnenolone usually can drag me out of of them. Because of that, I attribute them to some kind of adrenal crash. This time was different though, and perhaps the preg was aggravating it. Too small a sample for conclusion, but this time was definitely different. And it lasted 36 hours, where in the past I could count on 18 hours.

At least I feel great today!
 
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sueq: I believe you were referencing my statement: "When sugar is already used inefficiently, niacin aggravates the inefficiency?"

You say "I can take a lot more niacinamide now than a few months back, so it does improve."

Any insight on what happened between point a and point b?
 
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managing said:
sueq: I believe you were referencing my statement: "When sugar is already used inefficiently, niacin aggravates the inefficiency?"

You say "I can take a lot more niacinamide now than a few months back, so it does improve."

Any insight on what happened between point a and point b?

I noticed that too! I think my basal metabolism is stronger so when the vitamin abolishes the stress and FFA I don't become a zombie anymore. Oh and some metals' absorption is very slightly affected by polyphenols, like with magnesium. Do you know where or if we could find out a complete list for heavy metals?
 

SQu

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I've tried to think what exactly helped and other than 3 months on thyroid, all I can say is, it's the whole approach that's doing it. I also think taking more b3 & 1 as soon as I was able to has helped. I have reason to think I still have a long way to go when it comes to glucose metabolism though.
 

burtlancast

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Nobody should consume black tea; it's fluoride content is off the charts.

I wonder about the purity of the niacinamide powder, just as Ray affirmed that ascorbic acid powder contains a lot of heavy metals.

Remember that after all, these vitamin powders are synthesized by the same pharma companies that sell patentable drugs.

I wouldn't put anything beyond them....
 
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You can't scam chemists! Buy reagent grade if you have the money.
 

Sol Invictus

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Taking progesterone definitely made me more glucose intolerant. Within 2 weeks of taking 6 to 9 drops a day I began getting cold hands and feet right after my first meal of the day and I would remain like that all day till bed time when the symptoms would subside. I continued taking it for five months thinking this would reverse hairloss, instead I gained 10 pounds of fat and I have more grey hair.

I have come to the realization that my hair loss (diffuse thinning) and grey hair is due to elevated cortisol, and that progesterone just made it worst.

As for Niacinamide, I can only tolerate 50 to 150 mg per day without getting all the symptoms above. Just yesterday I attempted to take more at 350mg. I felt fine all day, no symptoms at all. Before going to sleep I took one cup oj and some eggshell calcium. Within 4 hours I woke up hot with a fast pulse. Drank another cup of oj and my body cooled of. Fell asleep and again woke up within 2 hours feeling hot and fast pulse.

If I take nothing or less than 150mg I sleep like a baby. I am wondering if I really need niacinamide in the first place?
 

nograde

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I recently mentioned that I've had trouble with niacinamide making me drowsy. SuchSaturation suggested I try it with sugar. I did.

It made me a little tired, which was solved by eating a meal shortly thereafter. Day two I repeated. A little tired. Some food. Better.

By evening on day two I was developing a headache and eating ravenously. Wanted ice cream both nights, which I normally don't eat.

That night, couldn't go to sleep. Mind racing, anxious, worried. 3mg progesterone. Calmer, not sleeping. 6mg more. Fell asleep. Woke up early in the morning with a pounding, migraine-like headache. That means base of the neck radiating to eye sockets. Pounding and pulsing with movement or heartbeat. Not as bad as a true migraine, but same symptoms. Say a 5 on a scale of 10 (true migraine is a 9-10).

Day three, low grade headache, slight fog all day. Felt better but not great after dinner.

That night (last night) woke up with pounding headache again (7/10). Hot, so hot. 73F in bedroom, wife under comforter. Me radiating heat (but not much sweat) w/ no blankets. Yet my temp was 97.7 which is low for me. BG was 94 which is a common fasting BG for me. Racing pulse. Clearly dumping adrenaline into the bloodstream. Tinnitus very pronounced (always is w/ low BG) Pounded 6 oz OJ and applied 10mg topical pregnenolone. Went back to sleep for an hour. Woke up pounding headache (8/10). Pounded 8 oz OJ, applied 5mg topical pregnenolone, fell quickly back to sleep. For an hour. Same symptoms. Pounded 10 oz of OJ. Slept for 1.5 hr. Got up and had breakfast (coffee, eggs, OJ). Head is a dull 5/10 right now. Pulse normal. Feel ok, not great.

So, I am attributing this to the niacinamide. Here are a couple of potential twists:

Sex late afternoon on day two (not long before headache and ravenous eating). Slightly earlier on day two consumed a large amount of black tea (two pots) so lots of theanine. I don't normally drink tea or take theanine. Obviously either or both of these things may have aggravated. Also, went to pool early that day and got a good 45 minutes or so direct sun.

In the grand scheme of things, I don't really care if I can tolerate niacinamide. But I am curious what it says about my general state? I am also interested in how to arrest an episode like this (which I also got when I was taking t3 even in very small doses) before it goes on for days.

A little background: I drink lots of OJ and milk during the day, along with some yogurt and small amounts of salame, chocolate, etc. Mornings are eggs, oj, coffee, every day. Dinners are usually (not always though) low starch, but include protein and fruit/other sugar sources. Fairly high on the peat scale, but I don't consume much gelatin, coconut oil, liver. I take few supplements, as any regularity gives me funky results. I try to take A, E, D, eggshell, K a few times a week. I take pregnenolone regularly (beyond a century) and progesterone (perfect progesterone) most evenings before bed. I've had blood sugar issues and have previously been low carb.

I take no thyroid. My morning temps are usually around 98 to 98.2. Daytime temps are usually around 98.4, but occasionally spike over 99. At 98.4 sometimes I am quite comfortable. Other times my hands and feet get cold (if I am inactive). Pulse is usually around 78-84.


You say that you drink a lot of OJ. I got similar symptoms when dissolving niacinamide in OJ. It resembled a Niacin flush (which I remember when I took that years ago). Niacinamide is unstable in acidic solutions and degrades to niacin. Do you get a red face alongside of your headaches?
 

tara

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If I take nothing or less than 150mg I sleep like a baby. I am wondering if I really need niacinamide in the first place?
50mg three times a day may give you a lot of the benefits. I've seen Peat recommmend 50-100mg a few time a day with meals. Unless you have a special reason, maybe no point in taking more, esp. if it bothers you.

Niacinamide should reduce lipolysis, so it makes you more dependent on the sugar supply. If glycogen storage or carb intake are inadequate, the niacinamide could lead to low sugar stress more quickly during the night. I'd make a point of having it with or after meals, not before.

Niacinamide is unstable in acidic solutions and degrades to niacin.
Really? I always take my niacinamide in OJ. :(
 

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