L-lysine - Serotonin Antagonist

haidut · Dec 4, 2015

Agent207 said:
post 112698

Nicholas said:

post 111046 it seems the reasons to take Lysine would be: you have a diagnosed deficiency, you are using it as an antiviral, or you are using it to antagonize HGH in situations like cancer. Using it to combat serotonin seems a bit more vague i am feeling. Do people who use Lysine have diagnosed high serotonin? If not, is a benefit from taking Lysine the *suppression* of serotonin or could it also be relief from a virus or even lowering nitric oxide? And does antagonizing HGH (or NO) or a virus also play a part in the serotonin suppression. Suppressing serotonin seems kind of odd now that i think about it....suppressing the thing which is causing a diagnosed case of high serotonin makes more sense. Many people eat the carrot as an anti-serotonin therapy - this is actually less vague in that you're targeting endotoxin (and the negative hormones associated). I'm not saying taking Lysine for the express purpose of lowering serotonin is wrong if it makes you feel better....just questioning for myself a more refined approach to supplementation.

Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. I suspect this serotonin depletion is one of the most misunderstood peat concepts. Peat advices about serious adverse effect of high serotonin levels (opposed to the mainstream beliefs). And then you see people here calling for lowering serotonin AT WILL FOR EVERYONE no matter what, not even considering their levels. Calling for depletion, the more the better!! Seriously, you think the brain chemistry is that simple? you read an article of Peat/whoever and think you can understand all?

And don't be wrong.. this is not a Peats issue, not at all.

People with obesity have "normal" serotonin levels yet several pharma companies are investing heavily in drugs that suppress peripheral serotonin synthesis as a way to cure obesity, osteoporosis, kidney failure, etc. Peat has said many times that he advocated gelatin as the major source of protein in the diet. He has also said that tryptophan requirements in adults are close to zero. The same has already been confirmed for methionine - i.e. restricting intake to under 200mg daily cured obesity in type II diabetics. If tryptophan is as unessential as methionine and you follow the advice of Peat, your serotonin will be quite low. If you want high metabolism, serotonin should be as low as possible. I would not worry too much about it - with the amount of stress the average person faces every day serotonin is not in danger of dropping too low any time soon.
Bottom line is this - what is the optimal level of serotonin? We don't know, since there is no objective standard to derive optimal levels. If you trust animal studies, serotonin levels of wild rats when well fed are almost zero while those of lab rats are quite similar to humans' and (proportionally) fall into the "normal" range defined for humans by the "divinely wise" Merck Manuals. We don't know what is normal anymore, but we do know that Western health is rapidly deteriorating and serotonin plays a BIG role in the metabolic diseases, which so far look like to be all there is. Oh, and even the viral and bacterial conditions require a serotonin "receptor" to be able to take hold in a host and develop. No tryptophan, no serotonin, no infection.
If you have a study that discussed how elevating serotonin is beneficial for health please post it here. On my end I will post these two.
viewtopic.php?f=178&t=6451
viewtopic.php?f=98&t=8745

What more do you need to convince you?? "Normal" serotonin shortens your lifespan by about 8%, SSRI drugs shorten it by up to 80%, and antiserotonin drugs increase it by 30%-40%. Again, these were not animals with "high" serotonin levels. They were lab animals with serotonin levels quite similar to the average Joe walking down the street.
Just my 2c.

Derek · Dec 4, 2015

haidut said:
post 112709

Agent207 said:

post 112698

Nicholas said:

post 111046 it seems the reasons to take Lysine would be: you have a diagnosed deficiency, you are using it as an antiviral, or you are using it to antagonize HGH in situations like cancer. Using it to combat serotonin seems a bit more vague i am feeling. Do people who use Lysine have diagnosed high serotonin? If not, is a benefit from taking Lysine the *suppression* of serotonin or could it also be relief from a virus or even lowering nitric oxide? And does antagonizing HGH (or NO) or a virus also play a part in the serotonin suppression. Suppressing serotonin seems kind of odd now that i think about it....suppressing the thing which is causing a diagnosed case of high serotonin makes more sense. Many people eat the carrot as an anti-serotonin therapy - this is actually less vague in that you're targeting endotoxin (and the negative hormones associated). I'm not saying taking Lysine for the express purpose of lowering serotonin is wrong if it makes you feel better....just questioning for myself a more refined approach to supplementation.

Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. I suspect this serotonin depletion is one of the most misunderstood peat concepts. Peat advices about serious adverse effect of high serotonin levels (opposed to the mainstream beliefs). And then you see people here calling for lowering serotonin AT WILL FOR EVERYONE no matter what, not even considering their levels. Calling for depletion, the more the better!! Seriously, you think the brain chemistry is that simple? you read an article of Peat/whoever and think you can understand all?

And don't be wrong.. this is not a Peats issue, not at all.

Click to expand...

People with obesity have "normal" serotonin levels yet several pharma companies are investing heavily in drugs that suppress peripheral serotonin synthesis as a way to cure obesity, osteoporosis, kidney failure, etc. Peat has said many times that he advocated gelatin as the major source of protein in the diet. He has also said that tryptophan requirements in adults are close to zero. The same has already been confirmed for methionine - i.e. restricting intake to under 200mg daily cured obesity in type II diabetics. If tryptophan is as unessential as methionine and you follow the advice of Peat, your serotonin will be quite low. If you want high metabolism, serotonin should be as low as possible. I would not worry too much about it - with the amount of stress the average person faces every day serotonin is not in danger of dropping too low any time soon.
Bottom line is this - what is the optimal level of serotonin? We don't know, since there is no objective standard to derive optimal levels. If you trust animal studies, serotonin levels of wild rats when well fed are almost zero while those of lab rats are quite similar to humans' and (proportionally) fall into the "normal" range defined for humans by the "divinely wise" Merck Manuals. We don't know what is normal anymore, but we do know that Western health is rapidly deteriorating and serotonin plays a BIG role in the metabolic diseases, which so far look like to be all there is. Oh, and even the viral and bacterial conditions require a serotonin "receptor" to be able to take hold in a host and develop. No tryptophan, no serotonin, no infection.
If you have a study that discussed how elevating serotonin is beneficial for health please post it here. On my end I will post these two.
viewtopic.php?f=178&t=6451
viewtopic.php?f=98&t=8745

What more do you need to convince you?? "Normal" serotonin shortens your lifespan by about 8%, SSRI drugs shorten it by up to 80%, and antiserotonin drugs increase it by 30%-40%. Again, these were not animals with "high" serotonin levels. They were lab animals with serotonin levels quite similar to the average Joe walking down the street.
Just my 2c.

This is an interesting view on tryptophan/serotonin. If tryptophan is non-essential, and no tryptophan = no serotonin, no infection; then you have to wonder why Peat recommends milk so highly. Per gram of protein there is no greater source of tryptophan than milk.

There can be problems if serotonin is dropped too low. Bleeding issues are one thing that comes to mind. I believe there was a forum member who took cypro, vitamin E and aspirin and had this happen.

kineticz · Dec 4, 2015

Agent207 said:
post 112698

Nicholas said:

post 111046 it seems the reasons to take Lysine would be: you have a diagnosed deficiency, you are using it as an antiviral, or you are using it to antagonize HGH in situations like cancer. Using it to combat serotonin seems a bit more vague i am feeling. Do people who use Lysine have diagnosed high serotonin? If not, is a benefit from taking Lysine the *suppression* of serotonin or could it also be relief from a virus or even lowering nitric oxide? And does antagonizing HGH (or NO) or a virus also play a part in the serotonin suppression. Suppressing serotonin seems kind of odd now that i think about it....suppressing the thing which is causing a diagnosed case of high serotonin makes more sense. Many people eat the carrot as an anti-serotonin therapy - this is actually less vague in that you're targeting endotoxin (and the negative hormones associated). I'm not saying taking Lysine for the express purpose of lowering serotonin is wrong if it makes you feel better....just questioning for myself a more refined approach to supplementation.

Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. I suspect this serotonin depletion is one of the most misunderstood peat concepts. Peat advices about serious adverse effect of high serotonin levels (opposed to the mainstream beliefs). And then you see people here calling for lowering serotonin AT WILL FOR EVERYONE no matter what, not even considering their levels. Calling for depletion, the more the better!! Seriously, you think the brain chemistry is that simple? you read an article of Peat/whoever and think you can understand all?

And don't be wrong.. this is not a Peats issue, not at all.

I agree, earlier in this thread I pointed out that I have had positive experiences with 5HTP, and also negative - the positive, I theorise, is an increase in dopamine due to an inhibition of the stress/adrenaline response downstream. Dr Marianco explains this on the web. 5HTP potentially can limit the downstream metabolism of tyrosine, which if increased is the precursor to thyroid hormone, and increased thyroid increases dopamine.

Excess serotonin is adverse when coupled with learned helplessness - that is it inhibits mitochondrial respiration as a form of hibernation to conserve energy. When the cells can't breathe, cortisol becomes excessive, which atrophies, well, everything.

Furthermore, as far as I understand it, in the right conditions trytophan is the precursor to niacin, and we all know how niacin/NADH is essential for metabolism. Again, it has to be in context. High cortisol and high serotonin will break down muscle, and muscle consists of tryptophan, which further produces serotonin (instead of niacin) which further puts cells into hibernation. You will commonly see red faced bald fat guys in this state.

kineticz · Dec 4, 2015

Derek said:
There can be problems if serotonin is dropped too low. Bleeding issues are one thing that comes to mind. I believe there was a forum member who took cypro, BCAA and aspirin and had this happen.

Can you elaborate on the relationship between serotonin and bleeding thanks

I agree when I dropped serotonin per se my stress and tension goes through the roof. It has to be combined with increasing oxidative metabolism.

Derek · Dec 4, 2015

kineticz said:
post 112730

Derek said:

There can be problems if serotonin is dropped too low. Bleeding issues are one thing that comes to mind. I believe there was a forum member who took cypro, BCAA and aspirin and had this happen.

Click to expand...

Can you elaborate on the relationship between serotonin and bleeding thanks

Serotonin causes the blood to clot. Obviously too high serotonin = bad situation (blood clotting), however too low is also a problem (bleeding/hemorrhaging). Like you posted above people are so scared of serotonin they are trying to deplete it down to zero. Hormones are supposed to be balanced in the body, as you can see from my example; too high or too low is a problem. However, people here only seem concerned with too high.

Derek · Dec 4, 2015

Even though people here are trying to drop serotonin to zero by taking drugs/supplements, they are luckily protected by the high amounts of milk they consume. Even though they likely don't realize that milk is increasing their serotonin.

haidut · Dec 4, 2015

Derek said:
post 112716

haidut said:

post 112709

Agent207 said:

post 112698

Nicholas said:

post 111046 it seems the reasons to take Lysine would be: you have a diagnosed deficiency, you are using it as an antiviral, or you are using it to antagonize HGH in situations like cancer. Using it to combat serotonin seems a bit more vague i am feeling. Do people who use Lysine have diagnosed high serotonin? If not, is a benefit from taking Lysine the *suppression* of serotonin or could it also be relief from a virus or even lowering nitric oxide? And does antagonizing HGH (or NO) or a virus also play a part in the serotonin suppression. Suppressing serotonin seems kind of odd now that i think about it....suppressing the thing which is causing a diagnosed case of high serotonin makes more sense. Many people eat the carrot as an anti-serotonin therapy - this is actually less vague in that you're targeting endotoxin (and the negative hormones associated). I'm not saying taking Lysine for the express purpose of lowering serotonin is wrong if it makes you feel better....just questioning for myself a more refined approach to supplementation.

Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. I suspect this serotonin depletion is one of the most misunderstood peat concepts. Peat advices about serious adverse effect of high serotonin levels (opposed to the mainstream beliefs). And then you see people here calling for lowering serotonin AT WILL FOR EVERYONE no matter what, not even considering their levels. Calling for depletion, the more the better!! Seriously, you think the brain chemistry is that simple? you read an article of Peat/whoever and think you can understand all?

And don't be wrong.. this is not a Peats issue, not at all.

Click to expand...

People with obesity have "normal" serotonin levels yet several pharma companies are investing heavily in drugs that suppress peripheral serotonin synthesis as a way to cure obesity, osteoporosis, kidney failure, etc. Peat has said many times that he advocated gelatin as the major source of protein in the diet. He has also said that tryptophan requirements in adults are close to zero. The same has already been confirmed for methionine - i.e. restricting intake to under 200mg daily cured obesity in type II diabetics. If tryptophan is as unessential as methionine and you follow the advice of Peat, your serotonin will be quite low. If you want high metabolism, serotonin should be as low as possible. I would not worry too much about it - with the amount of stress the average person faces every day serotonin is not in danger of dropping too low any time soon.
Bottom line is this - what is the optimal level of serotonin? We don't know, since there is no objective standard to derive optimal levels. If you trust animal studies, serotonin levels of wild rats when well fed are almost zero while those of lab rats are quite similar to humans' and (proportionally) fall into the "normal" range defined for humans by the "divinely wise" Merck Manuals. We don't know what is normal anymore, but we do know that Western health is rapidly deteriorating and serotonin plays a BIG role in the metabolic diseases, which so far look like to be all there is. Oh, and even the viral and bacterial conditions require a serotonin "receptor" to be able to take hold in a host and develop. No tryptophan, no serotonin, no infection.
If you have a study that discussed how elevating serotonin is beneficial for health please post it here. On my end I will post these two.
viewtopic.php?f=178&t=6451
viewtopic.php?f=98&t=8745

What more do you need to convince you?? "Normal" serotonin shortens your lifespan by about 8%, SSRI drugs shorten it by up to 80%, and antiserotonin drugs increase it by 30%-40%. Again, these were not animals with "high" serotonin levels. They were lab animals with serotonin levels quite similar to the average Joe walking down the street.
Just my 2c.

Click to expand...

This is an interesting view on tryptophan/serotonin. If tryptophan is non-essential, and no tryptophan = no serotonin, no infection; then you have to wonder why Peat recommends milk so highly. Per gram of protein there is no greater source of tryptophan than milk.

There can be problems if serotonin is dropped too low. Bleeding issues are one thing that comes to mind. I believe there was a forum member who took cypro, vitamin E and aspirin and had this happen.

I have asked him about this several times, and other people have too. His response is that milk consumption shifts the tryptophan metabolism towards niacin and away from serotonin. Agreed on the bleeding issues, dopamine agonists do the same. You can get proper blood coagulation with less than 10% of the "normal" serotonin levels. The mice and with sterile guts from the studies on gut bacteria I posted recently had every low circulating serotonin and yet did not develop bleeding issues. I am sure there is a physiologically beneficial level of serotonin but the evidence points that it is lower than what the official "normal" range defines. Same with prolactin btw. Official ranges are known to be higher than what they were 50 years ago and they keep raising the upper bound almost every year. I think the current upper normal level at LabCorp is almost 20. It was 17 a year ago.

Derek · Dec 4, 2015

haidut said:
post 112747

Derek said:

post 112716

haidut said:

post 112709

Agent207 said:

post 112698

Nicholas said:

post 111046 it seems the reasons to take Lysine would be: you have a diagnosed deficiency, you are using it as an antiviral, or you are using it to antagonize HGH in situations like cancer. Using it to combat serotonin seems a bit more vague i am feeling. Do people who use Lysine have diagnosed high serotonin? If not, is a benefit from taking Lysine the *suppression* of serotonin or could it also be relief from a virus or even lowering nitric oxide? And does antagonizing HGH (or NO) or a virus also play a part in the serotonin suppression. Suppressing serotonin seems kind of odd now that i think about it....suppressing the thing which is causing a diagnosed case of high serotonin makes more sense. Many people eat the carrot as an anti-serotonin therapy - this is actually less vague in that you're targeting endotoxin (and the negative hormones associated). I'm not saying taking Lysine for the express purpose of lowering serotonin is wrong if it makes you feel better....just questioning for myself a more refined approach to supplementation.

Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. I suspect this serotonin depletion is one of the most misunderstood peat concepts. Peat advices about serious adverse effect of high serotonin levels (opposed to the mainstream beliefs). And then you see people here calling for lowering serotonin AT WILL FOR EVERYONE no matter what, not even considering their levels. Calling for depletion, the more the better!! Seriously, you think the brain chemistry is that simple? you read an article of Peat/whoever and think you can understand all?

And don't be wrong.. this is not a Peats issue, not at all.

Click to expand...

People with obesity have "normal" serotonin levels yet several pharma companies are investing heavily in drugs that suppress peripheral serotonin synthesis as a way to cure obesity, osteoporosis, kidney failure, etc. Peat has said many times that he advocated gelatin as the major source of protein in the diet. He has also said that tryptophan requirements in adults are close to zero. The same has already been confirmed for methionine - i.e. restricting intake to under 200mg daily cured obesity in type II diabetics. If tryptophan is as unessential as methionine and you follow the advice of Peat, your serotonin will be quite low. If you want high metabolism, serotonin should be as low as possible. I would not worry too much about it - with the amount of stress the average person faces every day serotonin is not in danger of dropping too low any time soon.
Bottom line is this - what is the optimal level of serotonin? We don't know, since there is no objective standard to derive optimal levels. If you trust animal studies, serotonin levels of wild rats when well fed are almost zero while those of lab rats are quite similar to humans' and (proportionally) fall into the "normal" range defined for humans by the "divinely wise" Merck Manuals. We don't know what is normal anymore, but we do know that Western health is rapidly deteriorating and serotonin plays a BIG role in the metabolic diseases, which so far look like to be all there is. Oh, and even the viral and bacterial conditions require a serotonin "receptor" to be able to take hold in a host and develop. No tryptophan, no serotonin, no infection.
If you have a study that discussed how elevating serotonin is beneficial for health please post it here. On my end I will post these two.
viewtopic.php?f=178&t=6451
viewtopic.php?f=98&t=8745

What more do you need to convince you?? "Normal" serotonin shortens your lifespan by about 8%, SSRI drugs shorten it by up to 80%, and antiserotonin drugs increase it by 30%-40%. Again, these were not animals with "high" serotonin levels. They were lab animals with serotonin levels quite similar to the average Joe walking down the street.
Just my 2c.

Click to expand...

This is an interesting view on tryptophan/serotonin. If tryptophan is non-essential, and no tryptophan = no serotonin, no infection; then you have to wonder why Peat recommends milk so highly. Per gram of protein there is no greater source of tryptophan than milk.

There can be problems if serotonin is dropped too low. Bleeding issues are one thing that comes to mind. I believe there was a forum member who took cypro, vitamin E and aspirin and had this happen.

Click to expand...

I have asked him about this several times, and other people have too. His response is that milk consumption shifts the tryptophan metabolism towards niacin and away from serotonin. Agreed on the bleeding issues, dopamine agonists do the same. You can get proper blood coagulation with less than 10% of the "normal" serotonin levels. The mice and with sterile guts from the studies on gut bacteria I posted recently had every low circulating serotonin and yet did not develop bleeding issues. I am sure there is a physiologically beneficial level of serotonin but the evidence points that it is lower than what the official "normal" range defines. Same with prolactin btw. Official ranges are known to be higher than what they were 50 years ago and they keep raising the upper bound almost every year. I think the current upper normal level at LabCorp is almost 20. It was 17 a year ago.

Have you observed people's blood work, specifically the levels of serotonin, estrogen and prolactin; before and after heavy dairy/milk consumption? I have, and from what I've seen dairy/milk increases serotonin, prolactin and estrogen. I understand Peat's view that milk increases metabolism so tryptophan is converted to niacin, and on paper it all sounds good; but in the real world it doesn't seem to be the case. But I guess I have a different view than most around here, in that I feel calcium suppresses metabolism.

I understand what you are saying about serotonin. But based on studies you post and things you say, people may misinterpret the points you're making. It seems people feel serotonin must be brought to zero and are taking chemicals to achieve this. You certainly can run into issues, and I guess it would be responsible they measure serotonin levels while attempting such ventures.

Nicholas · Dec 5, 2015

kineticz said:
post 112772 as opposed to the methylation of creatine, carnitine, and glutathione and taurine detoxification.

Can you explain this further please? i can't figure out what "methylation" is.

kineticz said:
post 112772 increase magnesium to keep calcium extracellular.

this is also interesting. I found that when i began supplementing taurine that my need for magnesium increased a lot.

kineticz · Dec 5, 2015

Nicholas said:
post 112774

kineticz said:

post 112772 due to the reaction of the kidneys which reduce vitamin D to ensure that calcium is lowered

Click to expand...

interesting......this might explain why someone might have low vit. D despite getting plenty of sunlight and eating foods with vitamin D?

Yes from my research. Vitamin D and parathyroid hormone work very closely with one another to manage phosphorus and calcium in the blood. I have read that if you have high phosphorus (usually due to low ATP/high free phosphates), your calcium will go up, and the kidneys will reduce vitamin D synthesis to lower the calcium.

Vitamin D is a tricky one. It is required for calcium absorption in strong bones, but the kidneys will reduce vitamin D to allow an increase in calcium excretion from the body, when there is a free calcium excess.

Taking too many vitamin D supplements over a long period of time can cause more calcium to be absorbed than can be excreted.
The excess calcium can be deposited in and damage the kidneys. Excessive intake of vitamin D can also encourage calcium to be removed from bones, which can soften and weaken them.

[posts disucssing methylation moved to Undermethylators, Ketogenesis [non Peat]]

Nicholas · Dec 25, 2015

Delaying/blocking tryptophan absorption in gut

3oz beef = 2g Lysine

DaveFoster · Mar 4, 2016

natedawggh said:
I have VERY MUCH had a reduction in depression and anxiety. If I had to measure I'd guess that I am 85% less depressed. It's pretty wonderful. I had a few days of some memory and balance issues, but those went away.

What's your dose and do you take it with food?

haidut said:
As far as combining with other protein - if you are looking to antagonize serotonin then probably best to take on its own. Protein has arginine, which will compete with lysine and lower its effectiveness. However, if the goal is to lower NO, then take with protein to limit arginine uptake. I guess you can do both for bigger effect - take with protein to antagonize arginine uptake, and take on its own to inhibit NO and antagonize serotonin. I think some of the studies I posted showed lysine being NO synthase inhibitor independently of it blocking arginine uptake. Combining lysine with things like zinc, MB, and magnesium one may be able to blast NO completely out of the system...but I don't know if that would be desirable or safe. Maybe only warranted in conditions like cancer.

I cannot describe how effective 60 g of glycine is for mood.

What would you say is a ceiling dose for lysine if added to milk to inhibit NO? 13 grams?

DaveFoster · Mar 11, 2016

Nicholas said:
Delaying/blocking tryptophan absorption in gut

3oz beef = 2g Lysine

3 oz sirloin contains around 300 mg tryptophan.

So, for every 300 mg tryptophan we'd need 2 grams lysine.

One gallon of milk contains 1.5 g tryptophan.

We'd need 10 grams lysine to offset the tryptophan.

Oddly enough, this is very close to the amount of lysine in a gallon of milk.

It's the most god-awful taste in existence. It's worst than magnesium glycinate. Capsules are recommended.

kineticz said:
Serotonin, prolactin, and cortisol can rise independent of estrogen.

Serotonin is definitely a cardinal metabolic poison. Estrogen, at least E2, I'm not convinced. I think context is crucial.

Estrogen is necessary insofar as fluid retention is required, and it is required.

The necessity for fluid retention increases in the evening, which explains an increase in E2 during the later part of the day.

As far as cypro leading to weight gain, it will in the short-term.

In the long-term with adequate thyroid support, weight loss will result.

DaveFoster · Mar 12, 2016

Be careful with lysine.

1.5 grams at one time provides a distinct disassociative feeling, almost lightheadedness. This is probably caused from lowered blood pressure.

It's uncomfortable.

lollipop · Apr 14, 2016

kineticz said:
I'm highly sensitive to hormones, supplements and vitamins. Has taken me a while to realise that actually, most of it is pointless, due to being so sensitive. My genetic setpoint is to maintain a low state of balance, rather than excess.

I also never attempted to directly block serotonin until now. I only tried BCAAs and that wasn't with the intention to block serotonin. In a short space of time my mood is better, but I am showing signs of adaptation, such as migraines and lines down fingernails.

Lysine reduced my anxiety after the first dose 1 x 500mg.

Hi @kineticz, would you mind expounding on showing signs of adaption? You have intrigued me. I suddenly have lines on nails and a few headaches in last few months that I NEVER had before. Easily relieved with Aspirin. But just wondering.

Thank you in advance!

lollipop · Apr 14, 2016

haidut said:
People with obesity have "normal" serotonin levels yet several pharma companies are investing heavily in drugs that suppress peripheral serotonin synthesis as a way to cure obesity, osteoporosis, kidney failure, etc. Peat has said many times that he advocated gelatin as the major source of protein in the diet. He has also said that tryptophan requirements in adults are close to zero. The same has already been confirmed for methionine - i.e. restricting intake to under 200mg daily cured obesity in type II diabetics. If tryptophan is as unessential as methionine and you follow the advice of Peat, your serotonin will be quite low. If you want high metabolism, serotonin should be as low as possible. I would not worry too much about it - with the amount of stress the average person faces every day serotonin is not in danger of dropping too low any time soon.
Bottom line is this - what is the optimal level of serotonin? We don't know, since there is no objective standard to derive optimal levels. If you trust animal studies, serotonin levels of wild rats when well fed are almost zero while those of lab rats are quite similar to humans' and (proportionally) fall into the "normal" range defined for humans by the "divinely wise" Merck Manuals. We don't know what is normal anymore, but we do know that Western health is rapidly deteriorating and serotonin plays a BIG role in the metabolic diseases, which so far look like to be all there is. Oh, and even the viral and bacterial conditions require a serotonin "receptor" to be able to take hold in a host and develop. No tryptophan, no serotonin, no infection.
If you have a study that discussed how elevating serotonin is beneficial for health please post it here. On my end I will post these two.
viewtopic.php?f=178&t=6451
viewtopic.php?f=98&t=8745

What more do you need to convince you?? "Normal" serotonin shortens your lifespan by about 8%, SSRI drugs shorten it by up to 80%, and antiserotonin drugs increase it by 30%-40%. Again, these were not animals with "high" serotonin levels. They were lab animals with serotonin levels quite similar to the average Joe walking down the street.
Just my 2c.

Dopamine · May 7, 2016

Excess dietary lysine increases growth of chicks fed niacin-deficient diets, but dietary quinolinic acid has no niacin-sparing activity. - PubMed - NCBI

This study seems to show that excess lysine intake increases the conversion of tryptophan to niacin. Another point towards Lysines' anti serotonin effects.

Dopamine · May 8, 2016

Combine Lysine with Odansetron and you have antagonism of 5HT3 and 5HT4 with partial antagonism of 5HT1a, 5HT2a and 5HT2b

milk_lover · May 18, 2016

Dopamine said:
Excess dietary lysine increases growth of chicks fed niacin-deficient diets, but dietary quinolinic acid has no niacin-sparing activity. - PubMed - NCBI

This study seems to show that excess lysine intake increases the conversion of tryptophan to niacin. Another point towards Lysines' anti serotonin effects.

Interesting! Maybe that's why some can tolerate milk when they take lysine with it.

@Peata Are you still taking lysine? Are you still getting good benefits from it?

Peata · May 18, 2016

milk_lover said:
Interesting! Maybe that's why some can tolerate milk when they take lysine with it.

@Peata Are you still taking lysine? Are you still getting good benefits from it?

I've been on Cyproheptadine since Christmas, but tapered off that a week or two ago, and just started back on Lysine.

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