Study Says Coffee/caffeine Shortens Lifespan By Shortening Telomeres

yoshiesque · May 19, 2015

Hi all,

Please refer to the study below. It basically says that coffee, decreases telomeres which are end parts of DNA. Which increases cellular death chance. And telomeres are associated with poor health, and shorter lifespan. alcohol on other hand, increased it.

NOT saying i believe this, but do you guys know of any reasons for why they found this? Maybe there is a specific context, like coffee drinkers are also generally stressed (drinking coffee in morning due to fatigue, which resulted in lack of sleep).

One thing I learnt from Chris Kresser is, coffee is great but if your going through a lot of stress it can add to that.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...-Your-choice-affect-lifespan--way-expect.html

XPlus · May 19, 2015

The researchers set out to establish if different environmental factors had an impact on telomere length in yeast cells.

However, they found that telomere length was reduced by even low levels of caffeine, while it was increased by alcohol.

They concluded that caffiene shortens telomere (part of DNA) length in yeast.
I'm not particularly skilled at reading this genre of studies but it seems to me that the result here aren't useful to interpret the effect of caffeine on the physiology of living organism, let alone a high level organism.

The way I understand it, something meaningful should point out the effect of a certain nutrient on the whole system, taking into consideration other environmental inputs and outputs. Then a useful conclusion could be drawn based on preset criteria (a benchmark or hypothesis).

I'm not sure what they did with the caffeine and yeast, maybe they mixed them up in a shaker but he question is can yeast thrive on caffeine? if not, then their system (along with DNA) is going down the path of degeneration. Try to feed grass to cats.

jaywills · May 19, 2015

I do not even have to open the link before concluding this is ***t.

The Daily Mail bases its conclusions on weak evidence and as a newspaper operates through a scare-mongering mechanism in all of its health-related material. The idea - to sell papers

A google search daily mail and coffee will provide you with at least one conflicting article they have published regarding the benefits of coffee

https://www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=cr&ei= ... daily+mail

fourth one down.

A Word of advice - always doubt and question a source and the publication it is found within. This should be applied to everything you reed and not just health studies.

Daily Mail -> Newspaper -> Political and editorial motivation and bias -> hand-picked studies -> nick-picked evidence --> dramatized conclusions.

financial, political, personal motivations.

Such_Saturation · May 19, 2015

Of course no link to anything, as usual.

haidut · May 20, 2015

yoshiesque said:
Hi all,

Please refer to the study below. It basically says that coffee, decreases telomeres which are end parts of DNA. Which increases cellular death chance. And telomeres are associated with poor health, and shorter lifespan. alcohol on other hand, increased it.

NOT saying i believe this, but do you guys know of any reasons for why they found this? Maybe there is a specific context, like coffee drinkers are also generally stressed (drinking coffee in morning due to fatigue, which resulted in lack of sleep).

One thing I learnt from Chris Kresser is, coffee is great but if your going through a lot of stress it can add to that.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...-Your-choice-affect-lifespan--way-expect.html

Hhhmm, how about tens of studies in living organisms showing caffeine dramatically increases lifespan!?! This thread I posted more than a year ago shows 52% increase in lifespan from human equivalent intake range of 600mg-1,200mg per day.
viewtopic.php?f=75&t=2114

Not sure why anybody would do a "study" trying to "prove" theoretically (using a flawed idea like telomere elongation) that caffeine shortens lifespan, when it has been shown in to increase it in actual living organisms.
Btw, anything that lengthens your telomeres makes you more likely to get cancer. The few studies using extracts from the herb Astragalus known to increase telomeres bombed spectacularly after most of the animals died of cancer prematurely...
The idea of telomeres can only be taken seriously by people who believe in the Hayflick limit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayflick_limit

However, as Ray has said numerous times and other people (Nobel laureates) have stated as well, human cells in the right conditions are IMMORTAL!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexis_Car ... senescence

yoshiesque · May 20, 2015

Also check this link out below, which is research for "Effects of coffee consumption in chronic hepatitis C: a randomized controlled trial"

one statement in it said "In chronic hepatitis C coffee consumption induces a reduction in oxidative damage, correlated with increased telomere length and apoptosis, with lower collagen synthesis, factors that probably mediate the protection exerted by coffee with respect to disease progression"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23238034

Such_Saturation · May 20, 2015

yoshiesque said:
Also check this link out below, which is research for "Effects of coffee consumption in chronic hepatitis C: a randomized controlled trial"

one statement in it said "In chronic hepatitis C coffee consumption induces a reduction in oxidative damage, correlated with increased telomere length and apoptosis, with lower collagen synthesis, factors that probably mediate the protection exerted by coffee with respect to disease progression"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23238034

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/imprinting.shtml said:
The enzymes which cut out sections of DNA are the "restrictases," which are famous for their use in identifying samples of DNA. These "endonucleases" are activated by stress. In "excitotoxicity," which kills nerve cells through a combination of intense activation with deficient energy stores (i.e., stress), these enzymes are activated.
In apoptosis, or "programmed cell death," these enzymes are activated, along with enzymes which repair the broken genes, and the resulting energy drain from an impossible repair job causes the cell's sudden dissolution. Between excitotoxicity and apoptosis, there are intermediate states, in which the dissolution is retarded or reversed.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ru486.shtml said:
Cancer cells are immortal, they said, because they maintain active telomerase, so the company proposed to cure cancer, by selling molecules to inhibit the enzyme, and to cure aging, by providing new enzymes for old people. However, Hayflick's limit was mainly the effect of bad culture methods, and the theory that the shortening of telomeres causes aging was contradicted by the finding of longer telomeres in some old people than in some young people, and different telomere lengths in different organs of the same person.

But it's true that cancer cells have active telomerase, and that most healthy cells don't. It happens that telomerase is activated by cellular injury, such as radiation, that activates phosphorylases, and that it is inactivated by phosphatases. Estrogen activates telomerase, and progesterone inhibits it.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/stemcells.shtml said:
When I read his comments about the frozen cells, I wondered how anyone of normal intelligence could make such stupid statements. Since then, facts that came out because of the Freedom of Information Act, cause me to believe that a financial motive guided his thoughts about his cultured fibroblasts.

Hayflick and his followers have been attacking the idea of anti-aging medicine as quackery. But he is closely involved with the Geron corporation, which proposes that genetic alterations relating to telomeres may be able to cure cancer and prevent aging.

SQu · May 21, 2015

Forgive my digression - is astragalus estrogenic?

haidut · May 21, 2015

sueq said:
Forgive my digression - is astragalus estrogenic?

Maybe, according to this study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24082319

Also, is estrogen and radiation are the major factors in elongating telomeres and astragalus does the same I'd venture a guess that it mimics some kind of a stress response induced by estrogen and radiation.

SQu · May 22, 2015

Thank you!

jjhotcakes · May 22, 2015

Regarding astragalus, according to examine (http://examine.com/supplements/Astragal ... eus#ref124) a study that I don't have access to that was testing for estrogenicity found no effect from astragalus. Also reported on that page is that astragalus increases diuresis and improves kidney function - not something that one would expect if it was exerting estrogen-like effects.

sladerunner69 · Feb 14, 2016

Such_Saturation said:
Of course no link to anything, as usual.

Man I really have to get off the wagon!

ShotTrue · Mar 16, 2019

haidut said:
Hhhmm, how about tens of studies in living organisms showing caffeine dramatically increases lifespan!?! This thread I posted more than a year ago shows 52% increase in lifespan from human equivalent intake range of 600mg-1,200mg per day.
viewtopic.php?f=75&t=2114

Not sure why anybody would do a "study" trying to "prove" theoretically (using a flawed idea like telomere elongation) that caffeine shortens lifespan, when it has been shown in to increase it in actual living organisms.
Btw, anything that lengthens your telomeres makes you more likely to get cancer. The few studies using extracts from the herb Astragalus known to increase telomeres bombed spectacularly after most of the animals died of cancer prematurely...
The idea of telomeres can only be taken seriously by people who believe in the Hayflick limit.
Hayflick limit - Wikipedia

However, as Ray has said numerous times and other people (Nobel laureates) have stated as well, human cells in the right conditions are IMMORTAL!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexis_Car ... senescence

Don't people use atralagus to fight cancer because it increases immune fucntion? Maybe they died because they already had cancer
I'm interested in the herb since it supposedly increases height

Ginali · Nov 7, 2023

I'm honestly feeling a bit lost. It all started when I stumbled upon Ray Peat's writings, which made me question a lot of things, especially about studies that can be misleading. I think Astragalus is beneficial because it's been used in Chinese medicine for ages. Just recently, I heard about a Swedish study claiming that vitamin C could cause cancer. That sounds unbelievable, right? It makes me wonder if they used a low-quality supplement for their research. Or maybe this study was simply commissioned by those with deep pockets? Or maybe it is true? The same with the Astragalus supplements.

And then there's caffeine. I personally feel fantastic when I drink high-quality Matcha every day, despite hearing all the negatives about how it's supposedly harmful to your bones and mental cells. That's why I really appreciate this forum. It's a place where everyone can share their thoughts freely, which is how it should be everywhere!

Apple · Nov 7, 2023

Incredible!!
they found that telomere length was reduced by even low levels of caffeine, while it was increased by alcohol.

I guess we need to drink coffee with alcohol ... in Richard Overton (112 yo) style.

Cigarette smoking nearly doubles the rate of caffeine metabolism, by increasing liver enzyme activity.

Ginali · Nov 7, 2023

I've always been puzzled, banging my head against the wall, to the tree, etc., wondering why people who smoke, drink alcohol, consume coffee, and eat anything they want appear to be so healthy. I'm starting to think I should try living a bit more like that!

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Study Says Coffee/caffeine Shortens Lifespan By Shortening Telomeres

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