Masturbation And Testosterone

mt_dreams

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Back before sports trading cards, there were burlesque trading cards... Not all men could afford the real thing all the time. Porn is a byproduct of 'moving pictures'. The same could be said about someone who goes to watch a play involving violence, compared to someone who watches it at home for hours every night. The brain has not evolved fast enough for screen technology, parts of the brain do not know it's fake. When you include the fact that there is a lot of extreme porn vids on the web, it makes it all the more important that every so often you evaluate your own viewing patterns. Maybe if religion (at least in the US) didn't mutilate penises to remove 60% of the nerves, men wouldn't be going to extremes to get off. I've always had a much simpler porn habit than my circumcised friends, though this is probably doesn't hold water as my European friends have some extreme habits. I think the people that watch extreme porn are the ones that eventually have negative side effects from it (within the realm of a normal viewing habit). I really don't see the difference b/w someone doing it to baywatch (my first time hehe) or normal porn. Though like anything pleasurable, if you overdue it, it could become a problem. Everyone has their threshold, and it's not all about porn ... If you spend 3 hours a night pleasuring yourself, it's a problem, no matter where you're getting the inspiration to do it.

If you don't abstain from jerking off & ejaculation a couple of times a year, you are addicted. If you abstain to the point where you are constantly staring at tna instead of their faces, you are addicted. If you cannot do it without watching porn, you are addicted. If you do it every night, you are addicted. etc.

My suggestion for the op is to cycle in abstaining into your quarterly(or monthly) routine. This will boost testosterone enough to benefit you strength wise, but also allow you to clean the pipes every so often if you are not currently in a sexual relationship, which is also beneficial.

Back when my auto immune was first kicking into gear, I was having extreme tiredness after sex. My remedy for the situation was to temporarily not ejaculate during sex. Every so often I would have a quickly for my sake, where I ejaculate the least amount of sperm possible. It was the only way to get around not ejaculating during sex long term.
 
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Zachs said:
I think that estrogen dominance is a very real problem effecting all walks of life. So many xeno estrogen in our food and water, skin care, etc. So many petroleum based products and even infants are exposed to and even in the womb. There are pockets of populations around the world where boys being born with incomplete sex organs, and super late puberty. You gotta think the the average testosterone level among teens is slowly dropping. Women too are being effected but they are hitting puberty earlier. It's also effecting other species. Pretty scary to think what might be in 20-30 more years if trends don't change and people don't become aware of what they are putting on and in their bodies. High pufa too could be a factor.
I agree with the threat of environmental estrogens but do you not think that teenagers are less likely to be symptomatic of that exposure and that such dramatic symptoms at such a young age are suspicious?

I really can't understand the resistance to the idea of de-sensitising being an issue as regards chronic masturbation to Internet porn.

It doesn't have to all be about metabolism and nutrition and hormones, both theories can co-exist and still be right, or part right.
 

Brian

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Dr.Winston O'Boogie said:
I really can't understand the resistance to the idea of de-sensitising being an issue as regards chronic masturbation to Internet porn.

It doesn't have to all be about metabolism and nutrition and hormones, both theories can co-exist and still be right, or part right.

I agree with YourBrainOnPorn's basic practical conclusion that very frequent viewing of porn is no way to live your life, but I disagree with most of the theory.

Prolactin is completely dismissed as being important. Serotonin is not even on their radar. I think it's possible that some kind of dopamine receptor effect is happening, but it must be very small if it is.

The main thing that makes me think that the theory of receptors being desensitized is not a significant cause of the negative effects being reported from porn/frequent forced-ejaculation is my experiences with learning how to have tantric type orgasms. They shouldn't be possible if desensitization is a real issue.

There are lots of methods, but the gist of it is that in tantric orgasms you are stimulating the vagus nerve all the way down to the prostate/female g-spot instead of the pudendal nerve that connects to the penis/clitoris. The vagus nerve is not directly connected to the ejaculation reflex, so when the stimulation threshold is hit, there is no ejaculation and no prolactin spike. Through this type of stimulation a male or female is capable of having extremely intense full body orgasms that last minutes repeatedly potentially for hours. (Think of the most crazy moaning woman you've ever seen times a lot!)

The only real difference between these type of orgasms and penile/clitoral is that there is no prolactin spike to quickly shut off the endorphin release. The amount of total dopamine and related endorphins released is also much greater than anything possible from watching porn and masturbating. So if receptor desensitization was a significant thing than tantric orgasms should make you super-impotent and loose all motivation, but they don't. Once you learn how to do them you could have them for hours a day everyday if you wanted with no decrease in sensitivity, motivation or erectile function. People report the opposite actually of major increases in sensitivity to all pleasure, emotion, and motivation.

That's why I think the negative effects of over-ejaculation in relation to a man's hormonal and metabolic health is the real cause of all these negative effects reported by the YourBrainOnPorn people.

Overall it doesn't matter, because we all agree that daily porn and forcing ejaculations is dumb, but I'd like there to be more awareness of how prolactin, serotonin, and estrogen are the major culprits so that people would be focusing on addressing those instead of thinking that being 90 days porn-free is their ticket to manhood and feeling bad when they keep failing. I'd also like Tantric type orgasms to be more mainstream, because they're better than any drug and I think could go a long ways in eliminating the kind of sexual tension in our society that leads to relationship problems, depression, and crimes like rape.
 
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Well surely tantric orgasms aren't as easily available as knocking off a quick one or two to some porn you downloaded for free so therefore over ejaculation less likely to be an issue with tantric sex?

It's multi-faceted and nobody would argue against good habits and nutrition being a good thing but to me the danger of desensitisation is so pertinent as to be obvious. It can happen in everyday life life in ways completely unrelated to porn and masturbation. We all know the feeling of getting used to something to the degree that it just doesn't affect us in the way it used to. If you can relate to that then why not as regards masturbating to Internet porn?

Now if you accept the possibility (for you) or reality of desensitisation (for me) and apply Ray Peats principles and I think it would be what they call win/win, seeing the thing as a whole rather than narrowing it down to fit your existing beliefs.
 

squanch

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Dr.Winston O'Boogie said:
I really can't understand the resistance to the idea of de-sensitising being an issue as regards chronic masturbation to Internet porn.

I'm pretty sure it can be a problem on a psychological level and really **** with your perception of women.

My own experience just tells me that (over)ejaculation itself and not porn is the cause of the masturbation related physiological problems a lot of the nofap guys talk about (acne, low testosterone, allergies etc.).
Spermatogenesis is an extremely complex process that can be very taxing on your body if you don't have a good nutrient status (zinc and vit a seem to be really important here) and good general health.

Someone who is sitting in a dark room all day, staring into a screen and eating crappy food will NOT have the resources necessary to ejaculate every day. They most likely wouldn't even be able to get an erection without heavy visual stimulation - your body knows best when all your basic needs are met and you have energy to "waste" on sex. Watching more and more extreme types of porn in this situation however will "trick" your body into being aroused and you will still be able to jerk off and ejaculate daily.
THIS is the real danger of porn imho.
 

Brian

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Dr.Winston O'Boogie said:
Well surely tantric orgasms aren't as easily available as knocking off a quick one or two to some porn you downloaded for free so therefore over ejaculation less likely to be an issue with tantric sex?

It's multi-faceted and nobody would argue against good habits and nutrition being a good thing but to me the danger of desensitisation is so pertinent as to be obvious. It can happen in everyday life life in ways completely unrelated to porn and masturbation. We all know the feeling of getting used to something to the degree that it just doesn't affect us in the way it used to. If you can relate to that then why not as regards masturbating to Internet porn?

Now if you accept the possibility (for you) or reality of desensitisation (for me) and apply Ray Peats principles and I think it would be what they call win/win, seeing the thing as a whole rather than narrowing it down to fit your existing beliefs.

I know of people proficient in tantra that watch porn a lot, but it isn't associated with normal masturbation/ejaculation to them, but instead tantric orgasms. Just watching porn can cause them to have tantric orgasms with no other stimulation. I'm not sure, but I would expect that they would eventually get bored with a particular image or movie and need to find a new one to have an equally intense orgasmic response from that particular image.

So maybe the brain's neural pathways related to specific visuals that it memorizes are subject to losing their initial level of response. Tantric orgasms for the most part are not visual at all. It is all about sensation throughout the vagus nerve. The neurons associated with these vagus nerve sensations must not be capable of desensitization in the same way that repeated visual stimuli are.

So for me this only explains why someone would become bored with an image or movie and want to find a new one, but it doesn't explain general insensitivity to physical genital stimulation, low motivation, etc. For that I think the hormonal effects of over-ejaculation are the explanation.

Alright. Case is solved for me. Thanks for the discussion.
 
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I think that's it, just a downgrading of reaction to a stimulus which stresses hormonal and neuro-transmitter pathways that in some people results in them needing a stronger stimulus to get the same degree of arousal over time. Not everybody will over indulge when presented with the availability of porn but some people are more susceptible than others
.
Improving the mechanisms behind the production of those hormones and NT's would obviously help but wouldn't necessarily be enough to compensate for any other factors involved in the 'dampening' process, like de-sensitisation of dopamine receptor's (I know the word receptor is often misused).

If you accept the concept of brain plasticity then new neuronal pathways can open and receptors can regain their sensitivity with proper nutrition and rest (rest, big one that) from the over stimulation that caused their down regulation? How's that for an outlook that embraces the idea of sensitisation and Ray's biological approach?

Sorry, I really don't know much about tantric sex, not saying you're wrong just I don't know enough about it to relate to your ideas about how it goes against the idea of desensitisation. I'm going to bed now.
 

answersfound

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Started "NoFap" yesterday, again. I went 14 days without masturbating, then I gave in after a night of drinking. Figures. Then I did it twice again over the next two days. Morning wood was very strong, I felt like I was going to explode. But if masturbation is being used to relieve stress, then there is usually something wrong that needs to be addressed.
 
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DaveFoster

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Dr.Winston O'Boogie said:
Thank you Skally. I'm glad you understand the theory behind densensitisation.
Lol. I definitely agree with what you're saying as far as desensitization playing a more pivotal role than the individual's hormonal profile in regards to addiction, but both are interrelated factors that affect the psychology of the masturbation addict, or "berserker jerker," if you will.

The topic of my post dealt specifically with the hormonal implications of sexual abstinence, including abstaining from ejaculation, and these factors are rightfully labeled as neurohormonal, as trying to artificially separate the holistic functions of the endocrine system into its psychological and physiological impact is difficult, if not foolish.

In regards to porn, the strength of the stimulus, and subsequently the impact on the addict's brain, is far greater than masturbation without porn, which causes a much greater surge of dopamine, and then subsequently prolactin and serotonin. Even within the context of porn, there are degrees of arousal. For example, Playboy magazines would produce a much lower degree of arousal than that produced by an high-definition video of two asian chicks playing with erotic stuffed animals, if you're into that. Such a phenomenon was intellectually pointed out by Skally in his clever and suggestive South Park reference.

Brian said:
I know of people proficient in tantra that watch porn a lot, but it isn't associated with normal masturbation/ejaculation to them, but instead tantric orgasms. Just watching porn can cause them to have tantric orgasms with no other stimulation. I'm not sure, but I would expect that they would eventually get bored with a particular image or movie and need to find a new one to have an equally intense orgasmic response from that particular image.

So maybe the brain's neural pathways related to specific visuals that it memorizes are subject to losing their initial level of response. Tantric orgasms for the most part are not visual at all. It is all about sensation throughout the vagus nerve. The neurons associated with these vagus nerve sensations must not be capable of desensitization in the same way that repeated visual stimuli are.

So for me this only explains why someone would become bored with an image or movie and want to find a new one, but it doesn't explain general insensitivity to physical genital stimulation, low motivation, etc. For that I think the hormonal effects of over-ejaculation are the explanation.

Alright. Case is solved for me. Thanks for the discussion.

I always figured tantric sex was merely an abstaining from sensory down regulation through orgasm (a la American Pie), whilst graduating levels of dopamine to an artificially high point. This may then be maintained, similar to the concept known as edging, or it alternatively may be "cashed in" for a mind-blowing orgasm.

Dr.Winston O'Boogie said:
I think that's it, just a downgrading of reaction to a stimulus which stresses hormonal and neuro-transmitter pathways that in some people results in them needing a stronger stimulus to get the same degree of arousal over time. Not everybody will over indulge when presented with the availability of porn but some people are more susceptible than others
.
Improving the mechanisms behind the production of those hormones and NT's would obviously help but wouldn't necessarily be enough to compensate for any other factors involved in the 'dampening' process, like de-sensitisation of dopamine receptor's (I know the word receptor is often misused).

If you accept the concept of brain plasticity then new neuronal pathways can open and receptors can regain their sensitivity with proper nutrition and rest (rest, big one that) from the over stimulation that caused their down regulation? How's that for an outlook that embraces the idea of sensitisation and Ray's biological approach?

Sorry, I really don't know much about tantric sex, not saying you're wrong just I don't know enough about it to relate to your ideas about how it goes against the idea of desensitisation. I'm going to bed now.
Nailed it. Nutrition and proper hormonal balance leads to optimal neurological recovery.

answersfound said:
Started "NoFap" yesterday, again. I went 14 days without masturbating, then I gave in after a night of drinking. Figures. Then I did it twice again over the next two days. Morning wood was very strong, I felt like I was going to explode. But if masturbation is being used to relieve stress, then there is usually something wrong that needs to be addressed.
Same, minus the 14 days and the drinking. Keeping the orgasms in the 1-4 range instead of the 5-OH LAWD range helps you to bounce back. This can be accomplished by masturbating without porn, not stimulating the penis during the actual 6-second orgasm, or a combination of the two.
 

Brian

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DaveFoster said:
I always figured tantric sex was merely an abstaining from sensory down regulation through orgasm (a la American Pie), whilst graduating levels of dopamine to an artificially high point. This may then be maintained, similar to the concept known as edging, or it alternatively may be "cashed in" for a mind-blowing orgasm.

There are lots of different tantric or "expanded" types of orgasms. The edging type is not the kind I'm referring to.

The one I'm talking about is usually called a "valley" or "calm seas" orgasm. Because the sensations come in very long waves as opposed to the short contractions of ejaculatory orgasms. A common method for creating them is slow belly breathing that uses the diaphragm and abdominal muscles to put gentle pressure on the interior of the pelvic tissues and nerves around the prostate. Another method is while laying on your back periodically repeating a long and low "huuuuh-uuuh" sound that vibrates your chest and the vagus nerve all the way down to the prostate. Both of these methods involve zero exterior touching of the genitals.

The basic theory of how they work is that you are creating a maximum parasympathetic stimulation through the vagus nerve, with an absolute minimum stimulation of the sympathetic nervous system (zero frictional stimulation).

These expanded orgasms from what anyone can tell are an experience near the body's absolute maximum capacity for pleasure. There is very little research on them, so I can't say for sure I know what is going on, but I'm positive zero prolactin is being released, because it can be repeated for hours. You feel energized and powerful after a session of them and with practice sensations of even non-sexual pleasure increase a lot in your day to day living, so whatever is going on it isn't desensitizing anything for longer than a day and clearly seems to be making you more sensitive to many aspects of sensation and emotion. Even after a very intense session the very next day you could do it again.

So that's why I think long term desensitization of neurons from porn is not likely. What I think is going on is the mind's natural thirst for visual novelty. It doesn't matter what it is, if it's visual the mind will get bored of it fairly fast, especially if it has no variation on repeated viewings. Porn gets boring, because it is boring. It's just an image. Sex with a real person or tantric orgasms don't get boring, because it is much more than a visual experience that stimulates the parasympathetic nervous system much more intensely.

And I think it's over-ejaculation that desensitizes the body to sexual arousal through overwhelming one's capacity to deal with clearing out prolactin and replenishing sexual fluids. Tantric orgasms don't involve either of these processes, so the body never needs to recharge, besides maybe a day for some of the endorphins to be refilled.

I think it's likely that during actual sex there is some kind of interaction between people's nervous systems. Something electromagnetic throughout the whole body is going on, especially with a more tantric focus.

In my experience this stuff is a major upgrade from normal primate-style masturbation and a really nice additional option for partnered sex with very positive effects on mental health and metabolism, possibly through increasing your capacity to release more oxytocin more of the time by strengthening your vagal tone to human capacity, which should antagonize cortisol to a great degree.
 
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DaveFoster

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Brian said:
DaveFoster said:
I always figured tantric sex was merely an abstaining from sensory down regulation through orgasm (a la American Pie), whilst graduating levels of dopamine to an artificially high point. This may then be maintained, similar to the concept known as edging, or it alternatively may be "cashed in" for a mind-blowing orgasm.

There are lots of different tantric or "expanded" types of orgasms. The edging type is not the kind I'm referring to.

The one I'm talking about is usually called a "valley" or "calm seas" orgasm. Because the sensations come in very long waves as opposed to the short contractions of ejaculatory orgasms. A common method for creating them is slow belly breathing that uses the diaphragm and abdominal muscles to put gentle pressure on the interior of the pelvic tissues and nerves around the prostate. Another method is while laying on your back periodically repeating a long and low "huuuuh-uuuh" sound that vibrates your chest and the vagus nerve all the way down to the prostate. Both of these methods involve zero exterior touching of the genitals.

The basic theory of how they work is that you are creating a maximum parasympathetic stimulation through the vagus nerve, with an absolute minimum stimulation of the sympathetic nervous system (zero frictional stimulation).

These expanded orgasms from what anyone can tell are an experience near the body's absolute maximum capacity for pleasure. There is very little research on them, so I can't say for sure I know what is going on, but I'm positive zero prolactin is being released, because it can be repeated for hours. You feel energized and powerful after a session of them and with practice sensations of even non-sexual pleasure increase a lot in your day to day living, so whatever is going on it isn't desensitizing anything for longer than a day and clearly seems to be making you more sensitive to many aspects of sensation and emotion. Even after a very intense session the very next day you could do it again.

So that's why I think long term desensitization of neurons from porn is not likely. What I think is going on is the mind's natural thirst for visual novelty. It doesn't matter what it is, if it's visual the mind will get bored of it fairly fast, especially if it has no variation on repeated viewings. Porn gets boring, because it is boring. It's just an image. Sex with a real person or tantric orgasms don't get boring, because it is much more than a visual experience that stimulates the parasympathetic nervous system much more intensely.

And I think it's over-ejaculation that desensitizes the body to sexual arousal through overwhelming one's capacity to deal with clearing out prolactin and replenishing sexual fluids. Tantric orgasms don't involve either of these processes, so the body never needs to recharge, besides maybe a day for some of the endorphins to be refilled.

I think it's likely that during actual sex there is some kind of interaction between people's nervous systems. Something electromagnetic throughout the whole body is going on, especially with a more tantric focus.

In my experience this stuff is a major upgrade from normal primate-style masturbation and a really nice additional option for partnered sex with very positive effects on mental health and metabolism, possibly through increasing your capacity to release more oxytocin more of the time by strengthening your vagal tone to human capacity, which should antagonize cortisol to a great degree.
You seem very knowledgeable on the subject. I agree with your last paragraph, and I'm all for anything that lowers cortisol (although I drink coffee, so I guess I'm a hypocrite there.) This sounds a lot like Karezza, which held my attention for quite a while when reading into Dr. Stanley Bass, who is my favorite doctor alongside Ray Peat, and who has written a book on the subject of Karezza, which is best described as prolonged sex without orgasm.

As far as the neurological impact of tantric orgasms versus regular orgasms, I must say that I doubt there to be a difference there, but I know nothing about the neurological profile of a tantric orgasm, so I could be wrong. Nevertheless, do you know of any resources that have helped you understand the whole affair?
 

Mike1234

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Brian said:
Dr.Winston O'Boogie said:
I really can't understand the resistance to the idea of de-sensitising being an issue as regards chronic masturbation to Internet porn.

It doesn't have to all be about metabolism and nutrition and hormones, both theories can co-exist and still be right, or part right.

I agree with YourBrainOnPorn's basic practical conclusion that very frequent viewing of porn is no way to live your life, but I disagree with most of the theory.

Prolactin is completely dismissed as being important. Serotonin is not even on their radar. I think it's possible that some kind of dopamine receptor effect is happening, but it must be very small if it is.

The main thing that makes me think that the theory of receptors being desensitized is not a significant cause of the negative effects being reported from porn/frequent forced-ejaculation is my experiences with learning how to have tantric type orgasms. They shouldn't be possible if desensitization is a real issue.

There are lots of methods, but the gist of it is that in tantric orgasms you are stimulating the vagus nerve all the way down to the prostate/female g-spot instead of the pudendal nerve that connects to the penis/clitoris. The vagus nerve is not directly connected to the ejaculation reflex, so when the stimulation threshold is hit, there is no ejaculation and no prolactin spike. Through this type of stimulation a male or female is capable of having extremely intense full body orgasms that last minutes repeatedly potentially for hours. (Think of the most crazy moaning woman you've ever seen times a lot!)

The only real difference between these type of orgasms and penile/clitoral is that there is no prolactin spike to quickly shut off the endorphin release. The amount of total dopamine and related endorphins released is also much greater than anything possible from watching porn and masturbating. So if receptor desensitization was a significant thing than tantric orgasms should make you super-impotent and loose all motivation, but they don't. Once you learn how to do them you could have them for hours a day everyday if you wanted with no decrease in sensitivity, motivation or erectile function. People report the opposite actually of major increases in sensitivity to all pleasure, emotion, and motivation.

That's why I think the negative effects of over-ejaculation in relation to a man's hormonal and metabolic health is the real cause of all these negative effects reported by the YourBrainOnPorn people.

Overall it doesn't matter, because we all agree that daily porn and forcing ejaculations is dumb, but I'd like there to be more awareness of how prolactin, serotonin, and estrogen are the major culprits so that people would be focusing on addressing those instead of thinking that being 90 days porn-free is their ticket to manhood and feeling bad when they keep failing. I'd also like Tantric type orgasms to be more mainstream, because they're better than any drug and I think could go a long ways in eliminating the kind of sexual tension in our society that leads to relationship problems, depression, and crimes like rape.


Great point about the tantric orgasms. Delaying ejaculation and having some self-control can have huge benefits even if you are with a partner. A decent portion no fap crowd think of it as just some way to motivate themselves to lose their virginity but it's much deeper than that.
 

answersfound

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If the nofap community were all "Peating" there would be so many more relapses. It's easy to go weeks and even months on Nofap when the food you eat is completely devoid of nutrients. All those guys just play this waiting game thinking that they just need to give NoFap more time. Maybe they start going to the gym. But none of them talk about dietary changes. It's pretty weird.
 

halken

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I don't think masturbating is the problem but rather the context of why masturbation occurs. If you are attracted to a girl that you know and all you do is whack it off while fantasizing about her like a perv, then you are sabotaging your true potential and thus lowering testosterone as a result.

I don't believe in nofap. I just think the visualization process can damage real sexual expression due to it being easier than trying your luck in finding a mate etc.
 

jyb

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answersfound said:
post 93641 If the nofap community were all "Peating" there would be so many more relapses. It's easy to go weeks and even months on Nofap when the food you eat is completely devoid of nutrients. All those guys just play this waiting game thinking that they just need to give NoFap more time. Maybe they start going to the gym. But none of them talk about dietary changes. It's pretty weird.

For me just drinking green tea does the trick - the next day, libido is gone. Probably the oestrogen. Although this would make NoFap easy, I doubt it's making any good to testosterone, though.
 
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Jsaute21

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@jyb Green Tea is anti DHT. Bad for male hormonal health. Coffee is far superior. This thread makes a lot of really great points. As a horny 28 year old that discovered PEAT about 2 months ago, I have recently encountered a somewhat insane surge in sex drive. When my diet was at its worst (low carb, high PUFA, high muscle meats) for a couple years, I barely thought about masterbation or sex sadly enough. Now, it is hard not to do it every day for me. I also have sex with my girlfriend pretty often. (4-5 x a week). I do agree that Porn can have its negative effects, but it depends on the situation. I was always a horny, athletic, energetic kid then fell way side of the paleo community type diet. There is no doubt in my mind that a PEAT diet increases sex drive.
 

Frankdee20

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Listen, my body seems to know, via the after effect of ejaculation, weather I masturbated, or had real sex. I don't know why, but I feel different from each. Only time sex will bother me is if I ejaculate 5 times in 5 hours during it. But I can go 12 months without masturbating, and god forbid I crank one out, it knows ! I feel awful suicidal weak tired depressed etc.
 
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@jyb Green Tea is anti DHT. Bad for male hormonal health. Coffee is far superior. This thread makes a lot of really great points. As a horny 28 year old that discovered PEAT about 2 months ago, I have recently encountered a somewhat insane surge in sex drive. When my diet was at its worst (low carb, high PUFA, high muscle meats) for a couple years, I barely thought about masterbation or sex sadly enough. Now, it is hard not to do it every day for me. I also have sex with my girlfriend pretty often. (4-5 x a week). I do agree that Porn can have its negative effects, but it depends on the situation. I was always a horny, athletic, energetic kid then fell way side of the paleo community type diet. There is no doubt in my mind that a PEAT diet increases sex drive.

I'm a mid 50s very very high drive guy and this eating makes things even better. Especially since starting well cooked mushrooms...wow...

But per thread, masturbation is VERY different hormonally from intercourse or partner sex of whatever kind I suppose.

Testosterone is lowered with ejaculation and comes back after about a week, or so it seems. But vasopressin and prolactin shoot up and I think are a lot greater because masturbation doesn't raise oxytocin and related hormones. I think oxytocin is the true hormone of great erections and satisfaction and helps combat the after effects of orgasm when you have partner sex.
 

Frankdee20

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I'm a mid 50s very very high drive guy and this eating makes things even better. Especially since starting well cooked mushrooms...wow...

But per thread, masturbation is VERY different hormonally from intercourse or partner sex of whatever kind I suppose.

Testosterone is lowered with ejaculation and comes back after about a week, or so it seems. But vasopressin and prolactin shoot up and I think are a lot greater because masturbation doesn't raise oxytocin and related hormones. I think oxytocin is the true hormone of great erections and satisfaction and helps combat the after effects of orgasm when you have partner sex.

Yeah it must be the oxytocin difference
 

vulture

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I'll share something that I hope it could be useful:
Before Peating ejaculation made me feel like depleted, weak, used to push me near depression. After about a month of Peating, boosted my T (about twice than before Peating), getting Vitamin B, E, lot more Mg, some extra Zinc, lots of fruits, sunbathing, etc...I cum and even though I feel pleasure of it, it's not overwelming neither considerably weakening...in just a few minutes I've move on to work or read or do whatever else, no big deal.
 

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