progesterone and asthma. waves at 3am

I have been trying to balance my hormones. I have been using progesterone cream. When I use it, 6 to 7 hours later I have a wave and feel miserable. It happens at night between 3 and 5am. Lately it has started happening at midnight too. There have been times when this was not a problem when I have balance. I just do not know how to get back there. I have now developed asthma. I have never had that before. My skin looks old again. Also when I am in balance people comment on how young I look for my age. As recently as 3 months ago. I no longer get that comment. I stopped using the progesterone because my libido was too high and my breast were too full and I felt off. I was only using 5 mg 2 times a day. So, the next day, everything was fine until that evening. I had night sweats. Then the next day I was just deflated in my lady parts and libido was gone. So, I started using it again. Felt off. Asthma worse. I think. Memory bad. I need this forum because I am so sensitive to any change I am hoping that someone who knows a lot about hormones can help me before I damage my health. If I can post my symptoms and get a response on what is happening right now I think I can be very healthy. I am fine in every other way. I dont know a doctor here who knows anything about progesterone. Is there someone here who can help me with my hormone balance?

Welcome Cindy! Sorry to hear about your situation. I'm sure some forum members will reply with with some ideas that may help you. I think you've come to the right place. Most of us here prefer Progest-e for progesterone supplementation. I have found it to be the most reliable form of progesterone I've used. Night time can be stressful on the body and using Progest-e before bed has been helpful for me in that regard. I look forward to seeing you around.

Posting information about your diet would also be helpful, thanks.

Hi Cindy,

Welcome to the forum.
It would be probably safer to quit the progesterone cream, or even any supplemental progesterone at all, and try to emphasize a good diet to optimize the endogenous production of protective hormones (pregnenolone, progesterone..).
I'm sure that some members will probably chim in on this topic.
As for your asthma problem, I strongly encourage you to give tianeptine a try.
Something that as little as 3-5mg taken twice a day, preferably at the end of a meal, will probably going to help you a lot. Be sure to make at least a two days break when using it in the long run.
If you decide to use it, try to get a weight scale too to get the exact dosage you want.
I put below a link to a tianeptine powder supplier:

http://nootropicsdepot.com/tianeptine-powder-99/

« Tianeptine has been reported to be very effective for asthma starting in August 1998, when Dr. Fuad Lechin and colleagues at the Central University of Venezuela Institute of Experimental Medicine in Caracas published the results of a 52-week randomized controlled trial of asthmatic children; the children in the groups that received tianeptine had a sharp decrease in clinical rating and increased lung function.[21] Two years earlier, they had found a close, positive association between free serotonin in plasma and severity of asthma in symptomatic persons.[22] As tianeptine was the only agent known to both reduce free serotonin in plasma and enhance uptake in platelets, they decided to use it to see if reducing free serotonin levels in plasma would help.[21] By November 2004, there had been two double-blind placebo-controlled crossover trials and a >25,000 person open-label study lasting over seven years, all showing effectiveness.[23]»

The quote above is from wikipedia Tianeptine page, but if you want more information you can do a quick search on PubMed with «Asthma + Tianeptine»

Hope that help.

I used progesterone cream for about a year and it didn't do much except make sympotms worse. Unless you use the liposmal cream (meaning it will pass through the skin) then its useless -it will just build up in your skin or an expensive moisturizer.
I did use liposomla and I still had issues with it-my breasts became really tender and it didnt help with other sytmpotsm-seemed to make it worse.
I use progest e now-its working great. Easy to dose and I NEVER have those types of symptoms.

If you take progesterone topically, it's hard to control the dose, because you don't know when the progesterone will move from your fat tissues to the bloodstream. If you suddenly decide to stop, your blood would still receive the progesterone from your fat stores, if they happen to still have some progesterone. This could go on for up to 6 months after stopping topical use, if the fat stores became saturated with progesterone.

Thank you for answering. Here is some more information. I am 5' 6" 123 lbs. I am 54 years old. I had a hysterectomy 1 and a half years ago for heavy periods. They removed my overies because the surgeon said I dont need them anymore. Then he said afterward that I had young overies and it was a good thing to have them out because I would have continued with my period for a long time. Anyway. I started with the patch estrogen. I like it very much but I have to use more than 1 to get relief so, I am trying the estrogen pellet. I have never had allergies or asthma before but now I do. Each time though it was when I wasn't consistant with the progesterone use. I thought I was getting too much progesterone but since I stopped I read that toomuch progesterone causes low libido and my libido was too high. Could it be that the progesterone was stimulating the estrogen instead of blocking it? Right now I have not used progesterone and I dont have any symptoms except at 3am coughing from asthma then when I got up allergies were very bad. Always 5 minutes after I get up. I am sure this is due to the pellet or mostley from the progesterone as I only developed this the first time I got a pellet. The first doctor who gave it to me said that I didnt need the progesterone I was using because I didnt have a uterus so at the same time I stopped the progesterone. That is why I dont know which one is the problem. My diet is good. I have been eating carbs that I would not normally eat to try to gain weight. I like collards kale raw broccoli any meat eggs fish tomatoes banannas blueberries. I dont like sugar. I have been avoiding collards kale and raw broccoli because I read that they interfere with hormones. I take a multi vitamin and calcium chews. Also a tblspoon of mct oil. I am not consistant with any of the above. I have good energy and enjoy good health except for the misery that hormone imbalnce brings. So, sometimes I feel 25 and sometimes I feel 95. I know that I can feel good all of the time if I can just figure out what throws everything off. If I dont figure it out soon, I can tell I am going to have health problems. Like the asthma and allergies and sleep disturbance. I have never had any of them before. and they go away at times. gosh. I am going on like this. another symptom? Also, I use compounded progesterone from the pharmacy. I was only using 5 mg 2xs a day. before I was using 10 for a while but I could feel 5 just as well and not feel the symptoms as much at the 6 to 7 hours after use. At first I was started on 100 mg but could not tolerate the symptoms at all. I dont know if the progesterone would peak 6 hours later or if it would wear off then. I was also prescribed a suppository and felt like superwoman for a while then I completely shut down and was not able to use the hormones some how.

It sounds more like estrogen may be causing your problems. Regardless of what doctors may say we need progesterone to balance estrogen. I'm wondering if you have seen Ray Peat's website articles? I'm guessing you have since you found the forum but if not he has written a lot on the topic of progesterone and estrogen. Years ago progesterone was actually used for lung issues such as emphysema which is similar to asthma. I think you will be able to sort things out and I'm sure others will reply but if you haven't read Peat's articles I highly recommend them. You may also be able to achieve some relief in the meantime by breathing into a brown paper bag for a minute or two if you have these episodes during the night. It is an old fashioned trick that works nicely because the CO2 relaxes the airways. Peat believes estrogen actually accumulates in our tissues with age rather than becoming depleted and that menopausal symptoms are a result of not having enough protective progesterone anymore. Obviously if your breathing becomes so bad that you fear for your life you would need to seek emergency medical care. I don't think it will come to that but I have to say it anyway. It really does sound like you have enjoyed good health up until this point so I think you can regain that through learning Peat's work and implementing some changes based on his research. Keep us posted!

Estrogen and serotonin. Serotonin induced asthma sounds like what is maybe happening.

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to insinuate that estrogen was the only problem just that it was more likely than progesterone to be causing the asthma symptoms!

Blossom said:

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to insinuate that estrogen was the only problem just that it was more likely than progesterone to be causing the asthma symptoms!

Click to expand...

No offense taken, Blossom.
I strongly believe, like Charlie, that asthma is triggered by excess (free) serotonin and just wanted to outlined the fact that an asthma attack will quickly respond ( sometimes within minutes) to tianeptine. It was the case for at least 25,000 people ( plus 1...me ) who tried it, as a treatment, to stop an asthma crisis.
Making tianeptine, without any doubt, the best treatment one can find.
I'm really sorry if my first post seemed a bit rude.

Not at all! I suppose coming from a perspective as a former estrogen victim my thought process was leaning more toward the negatives of the estrogen treatment. I remember once accidentally getting the estradiol cream on my neck and although I wiped it off as much as possible as soon as I could it ended up causing me some difficulty breathing within a few hours. I tried a nebulizer bronchodilator medicine to no avail. This was all before discovering Peat of course but that incident at least started making me question the estrogen treatment.
I'm certain there are many things involved in asthma and I'm grateful you pointed out the serotonin connection because I was thinking solely from a hormonal perspective at the time. We all know that it's important to be aware of the whole context. I really enjoy how we can all share and learn from one another. It gives the forum an excellent group energy!

Yesterday my server was out in the am. The day before, I felt balanced except for the asthma symptoms. So, I used 5mg of progesterone at 5:45pm april 15. Woke at 1:15am coughing. severe. took 2 benedryl. went back to sleep. woke at 6 to alarm. 5 minutes after up. started coughing. Used 5 mg of progesterone. I was better after a little while but I became very sleepy and went to sleep for about 2 hours. This is very unusual for me. I have never been able to sleep during the day. Got up at 2:30. Felt fine but I was coughing. Used inhaler. Was better soon. Used 5 mg of progesterone at 6:15 pm because of coughing again. At 8:30pm I started coughing again and had a headache. I don't usually have headaches either. I went to sleep about 9:30pm. At 5:00am this morning I had that surge feeling that I get when My hormones are out of balance. This time with a headache. I went back to sleep. Woke at 6 to alarm. five minutes after, I started coughing. I used 10mg of progesterone. Coughing and sneezing subsided, but now I feel very off balance with my hormones. But now, my breasts are fuller than yesterday and my libdo is high again. My symptoms change so fast and are so clear. I just dont know what they mean. I saw a thread that you can ask for help. If I just post there what I do and the result I get, will you help me figure this out?

It is clear to me that getting the estrogen pellet and then taking the break from progesterone has caused this asthma problem with me. When I resume the use of the progesterone, the asthma gets better. I did see Ray Peats article about progesterone and that is when I found this forum. I had googled progesterone because of the too high libido and breasts too full. So, I stopped the progesterone and the libido and breast fullness went away quickly but I started with the asthma symptoms. Then I read that too much progesterone kills libido. So I was not getting too much? I wonder if the progesterone is stimulating the estrogen but providing protection from asthma at the same time. I have increased the progesterone from 5mg to ten this morning. My asthma cough is better and my allergy symptoms are gone. My libido is high and my breasts have gotten full again. Could it be that the progesterone blocks the estrogen and that allows testosterone to play more of a role? My energy is high. I do feel off.

Hi Cindy,
I've never had asthma, but my son does occasionally. I've read about using Buteyko method to eliminate asthma symptoms. Chronic hidden hyperventilation typically gets worse at night (I guess because stress hormones rise). I haven't taken the time to be persistent with my son on using Buteyko techniques, but sometimes I can talk him through stopping an attack in the early stages by getting him to hold his breath a few times. When it works, I figure it's much better than using the inhaler. When it doesn't work, we use the drugs.
If you have any indication that you sleep with your mouth open, it might make a difference to address this directly by using a chin strap or tape. I use tape myself, and it helps me not wake up hyperventilating at night. Other Buteyko techniques might help too, though they take more effort, in addition to figuring out diet and hormones etc (which I'm not game to advise about).

Blossom said:

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to insinuate that estrogen was the only problem just that it was more likely than progesterone to be causing the asthma symptoms!

Click to expand...

RP has mentioned that estrogen and serotonin are involved in asthma.
Estrogen increases serotonin and serotonin increases cortisol and other
stress hormones. Cortisol increases estrogen and estrogen increases
cortisol, the loop. Cortisol also inhibit T4 to T3 conversion.
Serotonin also increases TSH and prolactin. This lead to hyperventilation,
RP thinks asthma is a form of hyperventilation. Hyperventilation leads to
loss of CO2. I think saying estrogen causing asthma covers almost everything.
Here is a RP quote on asthma and estrogen

Ray Peat said:

Since estrogen treatment is known to increase the incidence of asthma and other inflammations, the appearance of chitinase also in the uterus in estrogen dominated conditions is interesting, especially when the role of estrogen in celiac disease (in effect an allergy to gluten) is considered.
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/milk.shtml

Click to expand...

That does seem to apply to me. I will lower my estrogen by removing the .025 patch now at 9:30 am and see what happens in the next 4 hours.

Mabe that is where the surge comes in at 3 to 5am. From cortisol. I dont know what to do about all this.

cindy said:

That does seem to apply to me. I will lower my estrogen by removing the .025 patch now at 9:30 am and see what happens in the next 4 hours.

Click to expand...

I do not know what is causing your asthma. I was just commenting
on Blossom's post on possible cause of asthma. IIRC RP mentioned
that estrogen withdrawl can cause depression for sometime.
I think it would be better if you talk to a practitioner( MD or
alternative Doctors) before you decide to stop using estrogen patch.

I notice my breathing improves (reduces) within 15 mins of taking Progest-E. The effect wears off after a few hours. The other thing that helps me deal with the wee hours stress hormones is grabbing a snack as soon as I wake up. I can stick a couple of dates in my mouth without opening my eyes or removing my tape. And a couple of drops of Progest-E. If I lie there waiting to go back to sleep for 1/4 hour before I do this, it might be too late.
I think Blossom and Mittir are giving good advice about the estrogen - if it were me, I'd stop supplementing it.