Should Low Total Testosterone Be Treated?

Ben · Jan 19, 2014

My total testosterone was lower than normal on a blood test (245 ng/ml) while free and bioavailable were kind of low. But I'm not sure testosterone replacement therapy is a good idea because some testosterone turns into estrogen and that reduces progesterone. I don't need to reproduce or have a sex drive, so I don't see the point of testosterone in the first place. High progesterone on the other hand is helpful for emotional stability and intelligence, which are very useful in civilized society.

I have high RBC, hematocrit, and hemoglobin on a blood test, acne, and a normal or high sex drive, all of which were present when I had untreated hypothyroidism and they have to do with high testosterone. Now my resting heart rate is fairly fast (took higher dosage of cynomel for a few days so far), so I guess my thyroid function is fine. I have rosacea and autoimmunity in my thyroid gland, which have to do with high estrogen. I have dandruff. I had testicular pain daily until I started taking pregnenolone, so maybe there was inflammation there. I have anxiety, but also fatigue. Cortisol wasn't low on a blood test. I tried thiamine, which was said to eliminate fatigue in some Hashimoto's patients, but I didn't feel anything from it. I don't notice anything from aspirin. Caffeine gives me clinically significant depressive symptoms, possibly allergy-related. I eat constantly throughout the day while others are satisfied quickly with their meals. I have a healthy weight.

I have no idea what could be causing fatigue, so I wonder if it's my low testosterone. But again, low testosterone may be a "difference" instead of actually causing bad health. Is low testosterone the problem? I don't know what else it could be, and testosterone would worsen rosacea, acne, and autoimmunity because it would increase estrogen.

j. · Jan 19, 2014

Thyroid and pregnenolone, which you are already doing, I think tend to balance hormones like testosterone.

It might be worth it to take anti-estrogen substances, such as orange juice, guava, aspirin, vitamins A, D, E, and K.

Vitamin K2 increases testosterone in rats.

jyb · Jan 19, 2014

Temperature might be more useful than just pulse rate. In my experience, I frequently observed good 80+ pulse while suffering from pretty sick low temperatures - no doubt very hypothyroid when that happens despite decent pulse.

HDD · Jan 19, 2014

"I take 5000mg daily, 1000mg 5 times a day. My high serotonin and estrogen symptoms disappeared, my acne, psiorasis and urticaria got much better and my blood circulation improved. I was hesitant to go over 1g too for a long time. For several weeks, I only took 500mg daily. But really, all the goodness with aspirin lies in the higher dosages. And I didn't have any negative side-effects yet. Not even nose-bleeding." - Dewitt

"There are many reasons to promote the use of aspirin. It has anti-estrogenic, anti-serotoninergic and anti-histaminic effects. It promotes the oxidation of glucose and inhibits the release of free fatty acids. And it inhibits the pituatary stress response, lowering ACTH and cortisol. It also increases testosterone levels and protects the dopaminergic system." - Dewitt

http://peatarian.com/16340/how-much-asp ... take-daily

This is a good post about aspirin by Dewitt. You should supplement vitamin k accordingly.

Ben · Jan 19, 2014

Haagendazendiane said:
"I take 5000mg daily, 1000mg 5 times a day. My high serotonin and estrogen symptoms disappeared, my acne, psiorasis and urticaria got much better and my blood circulation improved. I was hesitant to go over 1g too for a long time. For several weeks, I only took 500mg daily. But really, all the goodness with aspirin lies in the higher dosages. And I didn't have any negative side-effects yet. Not even nose-bleeding." - Dewitt

"There are many reasons to promote the use of aspirin. It has anti-estrogenic, anti-serotoninergic and anti-histaminic effects. It promotes the oxidation of glucose and inhibits the release of free fatty acids. And it inhibits the pituatary stress response, lowering ACTH and cortisol. It also increases testosterone levels and protects the dopaminergic system." - Dewitt

http://peatarian.com/16340/how-much-asp ... take-daily

This is a good post about aspirin by Dewitt. You should supplement vitamin k accordingly.

I'll probably take more. What I'm concerned about is that my ears ring anyway in silence, and that would be the only way to know if the dosage is too high. Again, I take 1/8 tsp of aspirin at a time as a sodium salt in water and don't notice any effect from it. Usually once or twice a day.

jyb said:
Temperature might be more useful than just pulse rate. In my experience, I frequently observed good 80+ pulse while suffering from pretty sick low temperatures - no doubt very hypothyroid when that happens despite decent pulse.

I recall RP saying thyroid balances oral and hand/foot temperature. So how do you guys measure temperature? I never heard of anyone measuring their hand temperature. My feet easily get cold compared to my hands, which I wonder about. The temperature of the air feels comfortable, or even warm, yet my toes are cold to the touch.

j. said:
Thyroid and pregnenolone, which you are already doing, I think tend to balance hormones like testosterone.

It might be worth it to take anti-estrogen substances, such as orange juice, guava, aspirin, vitamins A, D, E, and K.

Vitamin K2 increases testosterone in rats.

I drink tons of orange juice and I take vitamin K2 to prevent bleeding from aspirin. Aspirin (as I said) doesn't have a noticeable effect on me, but I take it for the apparent benefits, as a sodium salt.

I did buy some beef liver recently, however, so maybe it will provide some of the fat soluble nutrients. How much do you guys eat on the weekly occasion (in ounces)?

I've never heard guava mentioned on this forum. What substances does it contain that are anti-estrogenic?

j. · Jan 19, 2014

Ben said:
I've never heard guava mentioned on this forum. What substances does it contain that are anti-estrogenic?

Maybe Apigenin?

flashfire · Jan 24, 2014

Ben I know as a general rule, the lower the testosterone levels in a man the higher the estrogen levels are. Something you might consider trying. If your finances permit, purchase a good quality zinc supplement in capsule form along with a p-5-p supplement. Take 100mg's of zinc along with 50-100 mg's of p-5-p two times daily with food. Definitely take with food. Zinc is antagonistic of estrogen and will increase testosterone levels over time. There is a small caveat however. Zinc tends to slightly elevate adrenaline levels in the body.

Ben · Jan 29, 2014

flashfire said:
Ben I know as a general rule, the lower the testosterone levels in a man the higher the estrogen levels are. Something you might consider trying. If your finances permit, purchase a good quality zinc supplement in capsule form along with a p-5-p supplement. Take 100mg's of zinc along with 50-100 mg's of p-5-p two times daily with food. Definitely take with food. Zinc is antagonistic of estrogen and will increase testosterone levels over time. There is a small caveat however. Zinc tends to slightly elevate adrenaline levels in the body.

While I'm aware that zinc and P5P increase testosterone and reduce aromatase, I was wondering whether supplemental testosterone would have a health benefit by reducing LH. I have testicular pain on occasion for no apparent reason of the random, sudden pain sort. It was an everyday thing until I started taking pregnenolone, now it appears when I forget to take it. The testes do produce pregnenlone, so maybe the presence of pregnenolone reduces LH, but its effect would be limited because the testes still have to convert pregnenolone into testosterone. RP spoke of the effects of pituitary hormones. LH can contribute to or cause testicular pain, inflammation, degeneration, and cancer. For example, blacks produce more testosterone, and have more estrogen and DHT, but not testosterone, and have a higher rate of prostate and testicular cancer. There was also a study that showed low-dose testosterone supplementation reduced testicular aging. I am technically allowed to be prescribed testosterone since mine was lower than normal, so I wonder if I can better protect my testes which are probably degenerating. I think RP would agree with it. My worry in some of these posts was estrogen increasing with supplementation, but I bet if LH is causing inflammation, then reducing it can lower estrogen. Any tissue irritation increases estrogen. In contrast to bodybuilders who take high enough doses that the LH decrease wouldn't be significant.

Supplements like zinc and P5P would indeed increase testosterone, but I don't want to end up in a situation where I increase my levels to normal, but then I can't be prescribed testosterone anymore. I have health insurance for a reason. Where did you read that zinc increases adrenalin? I get fatigue when I take zinc without copper. I thought this was due to anemia (RP also suggested low copper causes anemia), but it happens within a couple of days and I have elevated RBC/HG/HC so that's not it.

paper_clips43 · Jan 29, 2014

What about pine pollen?

http://www.surthrival.com/news/pine-pollen-benefits

Ben · Jan 29, 2014

paper_clips43 said:
What about pine pollen?

http://www.surthrival.com/news/pine-pollen-benefits

Hehehe, I've thought about that a few years ago. I didn't know how to obtain pine pollen. But now I'm not sure if it's "peaty".

paper_clips43 · Jan 29, 2014

Yes wondering the same thing...Hope somebody chimes in.

I think if one were taking pine pollen for too long the body may stop producing as much testosterone since you are consuming it through the pollen.

I went through a bottle about a year ago and always took a week or two off. I feel like it could be useful to take tiny amounts every so often to kind of jump start the body. Probably not good to take often though.

I heard about a tribe somewhere that would lick pine cones before going on a hunt to give them extra energy.

Have you gotten your cholesterol levels checked?

Ben · Jan 30, 2014

paper_clips43 said:
Yes wondering the same thing...Hope somebody chimes in.

I think if one were taking pine pollen for too long the body may stop producing as much testosterone since you are consuming it through the pollen.

I went through a bottle about a year ago and always took a week or two off. I feel like it could be useful to take tiny amounts every so often to kind of jump start the body. Probably not good to take often though.

I heard about a tribe somewhere that would lick pine cones before going on a hunt to give them extra energy.

Have you gotten your cholesterol levels checked?

Reducing LH, the pituitary hormone that stimulates the testes, can be anti-inflammatory like reducing the other pituitary hormones like GH, TSH, ACTH, etc. I have problematic testicular pain which pregnenolone is treating well, I covered this in my other posts. So there is probably inflammation there, and I think reducing LH by supplementing testosterone would be beneficial.

Where did you buy the pine pollen?

paper_clips43 · Jan 30, 2014

gonegreenstore.com

Its made by Surthrival but the sight above has cheaper prices.

I wonder what it does to estrogen when taking pine pollen.

This article claims it reduces the harmful effects of bad estrogen.
http://www.rawguru.com/wild-raw-pine-po ... rfood.html

paper_clips43 · Jan 30, 2014

also try "green10" or even "green20" for a discount of either 10 or 20 %

Ben · Jan 30, 2014

I'll try it and post my results, thanks!

Ben · Feb 19, 2014

So how much pine pollen did you take daily? Was reduced natural TS production a theoretical suspicion, or did you have any symptoms that pointed toward that? I'm going to receive the pine pollen in a day or two probably. I might try it sublingually (under the tongue) before swallowing to see if it has a greater effect.

paper_clips43 · Feb 20, 2014

Ben said:
So how much pine pollen did you take daily? Was reduced natural TS production a theoretical suspicion, or did you have any symptoms that pointed toward that? I'm going to receive the pine pollen in a day or two probably. I might try it sublingually (under the tongue) before swallowing to see if it has a greater effect.

Thats exactly I prefer to take it. I started with the recommended dose and put it in my smoothies. Eventually I realized I liked to take less than the recommended dose under the tongue and I would get a noticeable increase in energy.
I would lick my finger and swipe it in the bottle to grab some and then rub it under my tongue.

I took it while I was going to the gym a lot and wanted to increase muscle growth and energy.
I had no known hormone imbalance at that time and quite frankly didn't know too much about them to know if I did.
This was about 3 years ago.

I have a friend who has continued to use it almost daily and still recommends it.
He looks healthy although always has been.

I really don't have any good advice or indications of its benefits on my end.
I am interested in how it works out for you though!

paper_clips43 · Apr 4, 2014

Ben,

How did your experience go with Pine Pollen?
Was it able to restore your testosterone levels?

Ben · Apr 10, 2014

Sorry if you expected a response, I eventually decided to not to try pine pollen after I've waited a while for it to be ordered, because I decided it wouldn't be the smartest choice.

While healthier males have higher testosterone, I think it's because of a higher metabolism and lower estrogen. Giving testosterone replacement to low testosterone men had some negative effect on their health (higher heart disease, I think), and that's because the core problem is converting too much to estrogen. A better way to increase testosterone levels is to reduce estrogen formation, that also increases progesterone and the metabolic rate. Pine pollen would be good for athletes and other groups of people who benefit from something androgenic like that, but not for the average person in today's culture.

Speaking of pollen's effects, I do encounter very elevated libido when I can taste pollen in the air during spring. Nobody else can taste the pollen, or encounter a higher libido, so it's strange. But I would say the cost of not being able to concentrate on unromantic manners outweighs any benefits.

paper_clips43 · Apr 10, 2014

What do you think about Clomid? From the testimonials I have read it seems to restore T levels while taking it although they revert back to normal when they stop taking it.

By using this site you agree to the terms, rules, and privacy policy.

Charlie's Restoration Giveaway #2 (Entire Home EMF Mitigation & Protection Along With Personal Protection) - Click Here To Enter

Dear Carnivore Dieters, A Muscle Meat Only Diet is Extremely Healing Because it is a Low "vitamin A" Diet. This is Why it Works so Well...

Rest the rest of this post by clicking here

Should Low Total Testosterone Be Treated?

Member

j.

Guest

Member

Member

Member

j.

Guest

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Similar threads