Taking cynoplus and cynomel but temps are not coming up

Thomas · Apr 10, 2014

Hi guys,
I am following RP teachings and half year ago I started to change my diet, then I started first with cynoplus and switched then to cynomel. Currently I am taking 25 mcg cynomel spread over the day and for the night starting around 22:00 hours I take a quarter of a cynoplus. My morning temp is still around 36.2 and heartbeat is not going up. It has been always around 66 beats per minute. Symptoms are better but not gone, mainly skin and eyes irritation and intestine problems to food. Dissyness and brainfog coming and going, Cold hands and sweating changing over the day but mostly Cold hands and brainfog, warm hands and brainfog or feeling quite ok in the head but stomach issues. Symptoms are rotating and I dont get controll over them.

According to Broda Barnes I should increas the dose as I still have symptoms and my metabolism is not up to peak. But here is the twist. I got my lab test back showing this values:

TSH 0,02 mU/L The Swedish ref is: 0,27 to 4,2
Free T3 4,9 pmol/L ref: < 6,8
Free T4 9 pmol/L ref: 12 - 22

Ferritin 266 ug/L ref: 30 -400

What are the results telling you? My MD freaked out and wants to see me direktly. He is confused because he says that the test shows an underproduction and a overproduction of the Thyroidgland at the same time. He doesnt know that I use cynomel and cynoplus.

Last summer my values where:

Ferritin 232, TSH 1.4, Free T3 4.6, Free T4 15.

Why is my body not responding with a higher metabolism even I use Thyroid hormones? What can I do to fix the problem?

thank you all!

paper_clips43 · Apr 10, 2014

Have you ever tested your cortisol?
Do you exhibit symptoms of low cortisol?

Thomas · Apr 10, 2014

No, I dont know much about it? Can you explain it to me?
thanks

Shrimp · Apr 10, 2014

Thomas said:
TSH 0,02 mU/L The Swedish ref is: 0,27 to 4,2
Free T3 4,9 pmol/L ref: < 6,8
Free T4 9 pmol/L ref: 12 - 22

Ferritin 266 ug/L ref: 30 -400

What are the results telling you? My MD freaked out and wants to see me direktly. He is confused because he says that the test shows an underproduction and a overproduction of the Thyroidgland at the same time. He doesnt know that I use cynomel and cynoplus.

Your doc sees the suppressed TSH as an indication of being hyperthyroid but the low free T4 as an indication of being hypothyroid. Low TSH is normal when on T3-containing thyroid medication. If your temps and pulse are still low then you could try more medication to push them up. Bloodwork is decent as a basic guide, but I've found it to be pretty useless compared to going by pulse, temps and symptoms when finding the correct dose of medication.

j. · Apr 10, 2014

Thyroid supplementation often doesn't work without good nutrition. Do you consume 80 grams of protein daily from milk, cheese, potatoes, and eggs?

Thomas · Apr 10, 2014

Yes, I do. I am hard core peating for 6 month now. I am around 150 gr protein, eating mainly cottage cheese, shrimps, oxtail brew, very Little eggs. milk. For carbs I have OJ and coke. Cant stomach potatos or any kind of starch.

j. · Apr 10, 2014

Just speculating here, maybe you could've increased your cynoplus dose instead of switching to cynomel? How much cynoplus were you taking?

Thomas · Apr 10, 2014

A 1/4 of a pill for the night.

j. · Apr 10, 2014

There was a quote by Peat, that when thyroid supplementation doesn't work, one could try some of the hormone precursors, such as pregnenolone.

Thomas · Apr 10, 2014

Oh, thats cool. I started yesterday with it. Got two bottles. How much does he reccoment for a day?

Thomas · Apr 10, 2014

Just got an answer from Ray to my question:

That's the normal pattern when you use just a T3 supplement, the T4 tends to be reduced, along with the TSH. Some stress-related things can decrease TSH, so with your T3 in a normal range it shouldn't be interpreted as "subclinical hyperthyroidism" as most doctors do. If you took some cynoplus it would create a more normal ratio to T3 to T4.

paper_clips43 · Apr 10, 2014

Another member posted a protocol that deals with Hypothyroid people with low cortisol.
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=2081&p=39080#p39080
Low cortisol symptoms usually are people with inability to gain muscle mass.
Lack of fat especially abdominal. From what I understand people with low cortisol usually feel worse when taking Thyroid hormone.
Digestion problems with tendency towards diarrhea are symptoms of too low cortisol.
Basically taking Pregnenolone with T3 can help.
Starting with 50mg and increasing the dose by 50mg until desired effects are achieved.
I have been taking 50 mg Pregnenolone with my T3 twice daily and it seems to be helping.

aguilaroja · Apr 10, 2014

Thomas said:
Just got an answer from Ray to my question:
That's the normal pattern when you use just a T3 supplement, the T4 tends to be reduced, along with the TSH. Some stress-related things can decrease TSH, so with your T3 in a normal range it shouldn't be interpreted as "subclinical hyperthyroidism" as most doctors do. If you took some cynoplus it would create a more normal ratio to T3 to T4.

(1) Dr. Peat has said the main things. The labs can be explained by taking T3 thyroid supplement. There may be some negotiating with the doctor involved. It would be good to emphasize your symptom relief to the doctor.

(2) Most people do better long term with a least a bit of T4 (Cynoplus has both T4 & T3). I am giving a general impression for discussion. Your T4:T3 ration is less than 1 to 1. You might experiment with increasing T4:T3 ratio to at least 2 to 1 (and maybe 3 to 1 or higher), before increasing the total amount of T3.

(3) The ferritin is on the high side, probably because of the meat intake. If meat intake is high, phosphorous may be high in relation to calcium. If you are not having much dairy, find other sources of calcium. If there iron saturation is in usual range, for an adult male whose okay with the idea, donating blood will reduce iron excess.

(4) While the thread referenced may be a special case, I think the "adrenal exhaustion" and "low cortisol" notions are over-stated. The digestion problems and lack of fat can easily be an high adrenalin rather than cortisol compensation for low thyroid function. The cortisol may be low because compensation is using a different emergency response, or because adrenalin itself is impairing digestion, including cholesterol intake.

Adding pregnenolone is a fine idea, and will boost thyroid and mitochondrial function. It might be useful to check the resting temp in the middle of the day. It's encouraging if it is near 37 degrees Celsius. Some people notice better metabolism first in the middle of the day. That's useful because it's a more active time.

Thomas · Apr 11, 2014

I got my pregnenolone now and K1 vitamin. How much does Ray reccoment and how high can I go with them?

thank you all for the great into!

j. · Apr 11, 2014

Pregnenolone as high as you want, 100 mg is a typical starting dose.

I think with K1 you have to be more careful.

narouz · Apr 11, 2014

Thomas said:
Just got an answer from Ray to my question:

That's the normal pattern when you use just a T3 supplement, the T4 tends to be reduced, along with the TSH. Some stress-related things can decrease TSH, so with your T3 in a normal range it shouldn't be interpreted as "subclinical hyperthyroidism" as most doctors do. If you took some cynoplus it would create a more normal ratio to T3 to T4.

Thanks for relating this.
Should put in the correspondence thread.

natedawggh · Apr 12, 2014

Yeah... Like Peat said you can't be something and its opposite at the same time. The too much thyroid and too little is the medical professions excuse to cut out the thyroid.

I don't think you're taking in enough carbohydrates. Thyroid jumps your sugar metabolism, and if there aren't enough carbs it doesn't go off, even if you take large amounts. You should also be getting lots of fruit, OJ isn't adequate unless you have an IV of it in you all day long.

Lin · Apr 12, 2014

So, is it okay to just take T3 and pregnolone? RP sounds like he thinks T4 is important. But, yes, everything in context.
Also, do you take Cynoplus with food or on an empty stomach?

narouz · Apr 12, 2014

@Lin
This is a pretty tangled and complex area of Peatdom, IMO,
and I really can't do it justice now.

But in one interview with Peat I was listening to recently,
he said most people need some T4 (in addition to the T3).
He said a ratio range of about 2:1 to 4:1, T4:T3, is a good guideline for most.
He said keeping the T3 part of the ratio no higher than 2:1
would "keep you out of trouble" (that's a near if not exact quote from memory).

Personally, the jury is still out for me, personally, in my experience, on this issue.
I believe I may've benefited from several months of straight T3 only.
I'm still exploring this.

(Before I forget it, in that same interview --I think--
Peat made the very interesting note
that desiccated, glandular thyroid supps like Armour etc
contain no T4 or T3.
He explained that they contain proteins which are
when ingested
synthesized by the body into T4 and T3.)

Lin · Apr 12, 2014

Thanks, Narouz! I guess there are no quick and easy answers. Here's my story: I have been taking Cynomel for about 3 weeks, gradually increasing the dose and my temps are increasing. Then, last night I took a dose of Cynoplus, at supper. Well, I could not get to sleep for a couple hours because I was so COLD. This never happened with Cynomel only. I was thinking of trying taking it in the morning, on an empty stomach (the way they take Synthroid), OR staying with T3 only, at least for awhile.

narouz said:
He said a ratio range of about 2:1 to 4:1, T4:T3, is a good guideline for most.
He said keeping the T3 part of the ratio no higher than 2:1
would "keep you out of trouble" (that's a near if not exact quote from memory).

What kind of trouble could I get into?

Narouz said:
(Before I forget it, in that same interview --I think--
Peat made the very interesting note
that desiccated, glandular thyroid supps like Armour etc
contain no T4 or T3.
He explained that they contain proteins which are
when ingested
synthesized by the body into T4 and T3.)

Okay, you just blew my mind with that one!!! :shock:

So, the desiccated, glandular thyroid is a whole different animal (literally!)

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Taking cynoplus and cynomel but temps are not coming up

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