What B Vitamin Supplements Does Peat Endorse?

Bluebell

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I recently found that I was depleted in B6 and got great effects from taking it.

So now I am wondering what other B vitamins I might be deficient in too. I can't take B complex as it makes me feel sick, so I'm thinking about trialling each B vitamin in turn for as long as it takes, and going on feel as to whether it's good for me or not.

I think Peat mentions B3 niacinamide, and sometimes B1 or B6, maybe B5, as vitamins people can need sometimes.

Does anyone know his thoughts on trying out supplementation of the others: riboflavin, folic acid, b12, biotin (and maybe choline or inositol)?
 
J

j.

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I guess it's in part a matter of studying what symptoms the deficiency of each of these vitamins cause and then I guess test them one by one.
 

Kasper

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It is funny, because I asked haidut pretty much the same question today :p

A quart of milk contains quite some B2 (130%), B5 (75%) and B12 (188%).
So if you drink milk every day, you likely don't need to supplement that.
I don't think Ray Peat mentions those B-vitamins to take as megadosis.

Ray Peat does talk about benefits of doing B1 and niacinamide in megadosis.
And for B6 he says that 10mg is already quite much.

I don't think Ray Peat mentions choline and inositol much in his articles.
Only one glass of orange jucie contains already quite some inositol (500mg).
But I would like to know what he thinks about choline.
If you don't eat liver or egg yolks, it is allmost impossible to get 500 mg of choline in your diet.

I'm wondering about folic acid as well. The form found in cow milk is 5-MTHF.
I find this article about natural forms of folic acid quite interesting.
http://chriskresser.com/folate-vs-folic-acid

Folate is a general term for a group of water soluble b-vitamins, and is also known as B9. Folic acid refers to the oxidized synthetic compound used in dietary supplements and food fortification, whereas folate refers to the various tetrahydrofolate derivatives naturally found in food. (1)

The form of folate that can enter the main folate metabolic cycle is tetrahydrofolate (THF). (2) Unlike natural folates, which are metabolized to THF in the mucosa of the small intestine, folic acid undergoes initial reduction and methylation in the liver, where conversion to the THF form requires dihydrofolate reductase. The low activity of this enzyme in the human liver, combined with a high intake of folic acid, may result in unnatural levels of unmetabolized folic acid entering the systemic circulation.

Several studies have reported the presence of unmetabolized folic acid in the blood following the consumption of folic acid supplements or fortified foods. (3) Human exposure to folic acid was non-existent until its chemical synthesis in 1943, and was introduced as a mandatory food fortification in 1998. (4) Food fortification was deemed mandatory due to overwhelming evidence for the protective effect of folic acid supplementation before conception and during early pregnancy on the development of neural tube defects (NTD) in newborns.

Researchers have hypothesized that the excessive consumption of folic acid in fortified foods may be directly related to the increase in cancer rates. Excess folic acid may stimulate the growth of established neoplasms, which can eventually lead to cancer. The presence of unmetabolized folic acid in the blood is associated with decreased natural killer cytotoxicity. (10) Since natural killer cells play a role in tumor cell destruction, this would suggest another way in which excess folic acid might promote existing premalignant and malignant lesions.

Despite the risks associated with high levels of folic acid intake, it is well established that adequate folate intake from the consumption of folate-rich foods is essential for health. Folate aids the complete development of red blood cells, reduces levels of homocysteine in the blood, and supports nervous system function. It is well known for its role in preventing neural tube defects in newborns, so women of childbearing age must be sure to have an adequate intake prior to and during pregnancy.
 

haidut

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Bluebell said:
I recently found that I was depleted in B6 and got great effects from taking it.

So now I am wondering what other B vitamins I might be deficient in too. I can't take B complex as it makes me feel sick, so I'm thinking about trialling each B vitamin in turn for as long as it takes, and going on feel as to whether it's good for me or not.

I think Peat mentions B3 niacinamide, and sometimes B1 or B6, maybe B5, as vitamins people can need sometimes.

Does anyone know his thoughts on trying out supplementation of the others: riboflavin, folic acid, b12, biotin (and maybe choline or inositol)?

I don't think he has talked about a B-complex directly, but you can collect the various B vitamins he mentions in positive light and make a supplement out of those. I am making a supplement that will have B1, B2, B3, B6, and biotin. All of these vitamins also happen to be involved in mitochondrial health and/or restrain glycolysis and/or increase CO2. When combined, I get a consistent energy rush from them, especially when taken with orange juice or some other sugary drink. Also, he occasionally mentions B12 as a vitamin to reduce NO, but niacinamide does the same thing and it is involved in many other processes as well.
Overall, every B vitamin has a physiological role but the ones above are what Ray consistently writes about.
 

Kasper

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I don't think he has talked about a B-complex directly, but you can collect the various B vitamins he mentions in positive light and make a supplement out of those. I am making a supplement that will have B1, B2, B3, B6, and biotin. All of these vitamins also happen to be involved in mitochondrial health and/or restrain glycolysis and/or increase CO2. When combined, I get a consistent energy rush from them, especially when taken with orange juice or some other sugary drink.

Red Bull should hire you, so that they can optimize their formula ;)
 

haidut

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LOL, thanks @kasper and @jaa. This weekend I will post the links for the other two supplements. One of them is a combination of the B vitamins I mentioned above. The other one is an amino acid and caffeine combo. Similar to Red Bull but better:):
 

Kasper

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Which ingredient will the amino acid/caffeine combo have ?
Will it also contain aspirin ?
 
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Bluebell

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thanks, @j. @haiduct @kasper

I will look into the deficiency symptoms of the individual B's, I've got a book with a write up on each. Sometimes little symptoms that are not bothersome in themselves can be good clues to bigger problems (like a little bit of dermatitis indicating lack of B6).

I wonder if those figures for the B vitamins in milk apply for pasteurized too.

I like the idea of supplementing only a few of the B's (like niacinamide and B1, or haidut's B1, B2, B3, B6, and biotin) ... but I wonder about creating a deficiency in the others, as the B's seem to depend on and interact with each other. Sometimes I wonder if it would be safer to only supplement very low amounts like we'd get in food (e.g. not the high levels found in typical b supplements, like 150mg of B1 in a capsule for instance).
 

linkslater

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I also happen to react to most of B complex vitamins, but found one from Thorne Research 'Stress B-Complex' that i like. From others i had a really strong phlegm reaction and couldn't figure out the reason for almost 1.5 years due delayed(2-3 days) allergy type response. Thorne also have pure niacinamide without any additives.
 

haidut

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linkslater said:
I also happen to react to most of B complex vitamins, but found one from Thorne Research 'Stress B-Complex' that i like. From others i had a really strong phlegm reaction and couldn't figure out the reason for almost 1.5 years due delayed(2-3 days) allergy type response. Thorne also have pure niacinamide without any additives.

I just started selling my B-complex mix. If someone would like to compare both products that would be very helpful to the forum, I think.
 

Blossom

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Thorne Research Stress B Complex contains the following (in addition to b vitamins): hypromellose capsule, magnesium laureate, magnesium citrate and silicon dioxide. I have never used a b-complex that didn't make me sick. It also contains ALL of the B's so for someone following a Peat inspired approach I don't think that is always desirable. Considering many of the other b-complex supplements on the market this is probably better than most. I agree with Dan Wich that we are probably safer supplementing the individual B's but now we have another option with haiduts formula! I like that it contains only Peat backed nutrients and can also be applied topically.
Anecdotally, when I was following a paleo lifestyle I took some supplements once weekly to stave off deficiency and every time I took my weekly supplements I felt sick. Now I understand why. Thorne is supposed to be top of the line and I took many of their supplements in the past but the silicon dioxide alone is enough to make me avoid their supplements. Persorption of microparticles is the issue I'd like to avoid personally.
 
J

j.

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You might have missed it, when I started using Carlson K2 I had involuntary movements of arms, legs, and facial muscles.

I had all sorts of (crazy) hypotheses, including low calcium from the k, pregnenolone that I was also starting to use then, a stroke, but over time I tried two other vitamin K supplements, without silica, and never had trouble, and always had the problem with Carlson K2, which has silica.
 

Blossom

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j. said:
You might have missed it, when I started using Carlson K2 I had involuntary movements of arms, legs, and facial muscles.

I had all sorts of (crazy) hypotheses, including low calcium from the k, pregnenolone that I was also starting to use then, a stroke, but over time I tried two other vitamin K supplements, without silica, and never had trouble, and always had the problem with Carlson K2, which has silica.
Oh my gosh! I did miss it. I knew you weren't a fan of silica but I didn't know about that one. :shock:
 

linkslater

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What also can be helpful, I always open the capsule and mix B vitamins with water. And never take the full capsule.

Now I'm on the following mix (2-3 times per day):
— small pinch of B complex (i.e. 1/8 of the capsule)
— pinch of pure niacinamide (1/4 of 500mg capsule)
— pinch of B5 (1/4 of 550 mg and ONLY if it's before 2pm, cause it gives really strong energy rush)
— 3-4 teaspoons of honey
 
OP
Bluebell

Bluebell

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Nice to hear what someone else is doing linkslater. I tend to gobble a whole capsule but there is no reason why I can't pinch a bit out instead.

Any reason for the honey (to assimilate the B's better)?

I am tempted to try a pinch of each of:
B6 as P5P
niacinamide
B5
B1 - not sure whether the thiamine or benfotiamine form is best
 

Watson350

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I just took b1,b2,b6 and b12 and within minutes I had a ptsd response I get when I take drugs that alter my state of consciousness.( I had a bad mescaline and psybocilin trip in Vegas a couple years ago). It went away as soon as it came on but it frightened me greatly; any thoughts on why this may have occurred. I had always thought vitamin b to be anti-psychotic like so I was taken rather unexpectedly by a stress or ptsd response to low dose vitamins almost immediately after ingestion.
 

dookie

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@Bluebell - Peat actually doesn't endorse any synthetic vitamin or mineral supplement. He has recommended B-vitamins in a few isolated cases, but he doesn't use them himself. He has said that there is really no good B-vitamin supplement. Liver is the best and safest B-vitamin Supplement you can obtain.

@Watson350 - I get strange side-effects from several simple B-vitamins too. Like muscle spasms (involuntary muscle movements) and brain fog. These can last for days after a dose. I think they are allergenic and bowel irritating. Pure B1 causes depression and other strange symptoms.
 

milk_lover

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@Bluebell - Peat actually doesn't endorse any synthetic vitamin or mineral supplement. He has recommended B-vitamins in a few isolated cases, but he doesn't use them himself. He has said that there is really no good B-vitamin supplement. Liver is the best and safest B-vitamin Supplement you can obtain.

@Watson350 - I get strange side-effects from several simple B-vitamins too. Like muscle spasms (involuntary muscle movements) and brain fog. These can last for days after a dose. I think they are allergenic and bowel irritating. Pure B1 causes depression and other strange symptoms.
Do you take magnesium with B1? I heard B1 can use up magnesium but I am not sure. What other symptoms do you experience from B1?
 

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