Help Me Fall Out Of Love

Gl;itch.e

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Ok I realise this is going to sound like a completely random topic, but then if ever there was a place for it, it is here amongst open minded peatatarians! :D

Long story short I have fallen for a woman I have no chance with. She is a friends girlfriend and Im just not the one to get involved in these things.

I've been wondering if theres a connection between the way my physiology has been changing with the specific diet/supplementation we often use and how it may be effecting this attraction and my inability to get myself out of it. Perhaps a dopamine/serotonin link is involved. I must say despite the emotional pain of it all I feel pretty good otherwise and my health only seems to be improving.

I wonder if pregnenolone is somehow involved as it was one thing I added when all these feelings and emotions began to surface. I have known this woman for over a year prior and see her at least weekly so this is whats got me thinking its something I might possibly have done.

Anyway i thought it might make for an interesting discussion if nothing else.
 

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Gl;itch.e said:
Ok I realise this is going to sound like a completely random topic, but then if ever there was a place for it, it is here amongst open minded peatatarians! :D

Long story short I have fallen for a woman I have no chance with. She is a friends girlfriend and Im just not the one to get involved in these things.

I've been wondering if theres a connection between the way my physiology has been changing with the specific diet/supplementation we often use and how it may be effecting this attraction and my inability to get myself out of it. Perhaps a dopamine/serotonin link is involved. I must say despite the emotional pain of it all I feel pretty good otherwise and my health only seems to be improving.

I wonder if pregnenolone is somehow involved as it was one thing I added when all these feelings and emotions began to surface. I have known this woman for over a year prior and see her at least weekly so this is whats got me thinking its something I might possibly have done.

Anyway i thought it might make for an interesting discussion if nothing else.
I have had increased feelings of love too since Peating! I think you are probably right about it being related to the Peat inspired changes you have made!
 
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I doubt there's anything biologically wrong with you, falling in love is a normal healthy function. Your body/mind have no way of knowing if love is appropriate or will be returned, these things happen automatically. Staying socially and physically active with other people and avoiding contact with her for a while will help you get over it quicker and with less stress.

I don't know if this translates to your situation at all, but for me I had this problem when I was younger, and shy. I would hide my romantic intentions from women so I would fall in love with them but they considered me only a friend. The longer I would keep interacting as a friend the deeper I would fall in love with them, causing a serious problem for the friendship itself. Honesty and symmetry are essential for healthy relationships.

I eventually learned to make my intentions transparent to women I was interested in from the beginning and this led to healthy symmetric relationships. If I was interested but she wasn't or it wasn't appropriate, I would try to limit any social interaction with that person at least for a while. Usually I would get over her pretty quick this way, and could even become friends later once I was interested in someone else.
 

jyb

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CellularIconoclast said:
I don't know if this translates to your situation at all, but for me I had this problem when I was younger, and shy. I would hide my romantic intentions from women so I would fall in love with them but they considered me only a friend. The longer I would keep interacting as a friend the deeper I would fall in love with them, causing a serious problem for the friendship itself.

Well put. I have also found that thinking about things rationally can greatly improve the outcome. If you firmly agree on the rational level that you shouldn't go further, for example too much difference in character, then the feelings will follow.
 

jaguar43

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In one of the herb doctors interview someone ask if serotonin was responsible for love. I think ray peat said yes. Most likely prolactin, wondering how much OxyContin has to do with it since its usually released after sex to create pair bonding.
 
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Gl;itch.e

Gl;itch.e

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CellularIconoclast said:
I doubt there's anything biologically wrong with you, falling in love is a normal healthy function. Your body/mind have no way of knowing if love is appropriate or will be returned, these things happen automatically. Staying socially and physically active with other people and avoiding contact with her for a while will help you get over it quicker and with less stress.
I've tried that. But it seems she persists in txting, messaging and inviting me to events. Not that I always go. And she even got really upset last night when I tried to politely get out of talking with her online and she made a point of asking whether I was her friend or not.

I don't know if this translates to your situation at all, but for me I had this problem when I was younger, and shy. I would hide my romantic intentions from women so I would fall in love with them but they considered me only a friend. The longer I would keep interacting as a friend the deeper I would fall in love with them, causing a serious problem for the friendship itself. Honesty and symmetry are essential for healthy relationships.
Yeah and I would have done the same in my younger years as well. Its only this situation thats made me keep it to myself. If she was single itd be a different story.

I eventually learned to make my intentions transparent to women I was interested in from the beginning and this led to healthy symmetric relationships. If I was interested but she wasn't or it wasn't appropriate, I would try to limit any social interaction with that person at least for a while. Usually I would get over her pretty quick this way, and could even become friends later once I was interested in someone else.
Thanks for your input Cellular I will try limiting contact as much as possible. Seems like it might cost me a couple of friendships either way though as I can very rarely see my friend without her being there.
 
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Gl;itch.e

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jag2594 said:
In one of the herb doctors interview someone ask if serotonin was responsible for love. I think ray peat said yes. Most likely prolactin, wondering how much OxyContin has to do with it since its usually released after sex to create pair bonding.
yay prolactin! the one thing Im trying to lower as much as possible! d'oh! (;
 

haidut

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Gl;itch.e said:
jag2594 said:
In one of the herb doctors interview someone ask if serotonin was responsible for love. I think ray peat said yes. Most likely prolactin, wondering how much OxyContin has to do with it since its usually released after sex to create pair bonding.
yay prolactin! the one thing Im trying to lower as much as possible! d'oh! (;

Hhhm, I am not sure that high serotonin is responsible for love. Consider this:

http://pranarupa.wordpress.com/2013/01/ ... ad-love-2/

"...I’m going to guess that its when you’re in Love, when the whole world shines and feels alive with possibility, everything is fresh and new, nothing seems impossible, well guess what, in a review examining the neubiology of love, low serotonin was associated with falling in love and SSRIs appeared to interfere with feeling love (Langeslag 2009). Interesting, LSD supposedly makes you crazy, much of the popular ideas about serotonin grew out of the anti-LSD propaganda, we talk about falling madly in love with someone, and in this state people will throw caution to the wind and do things that may seem hopelessly crazy."

So, if your health is improving then you falling in love maybe a result of this improved health and likely due to LOWER serotonin, not higher.
Also, if i were you I would not be looking for ways to fall out of love. Rather, act natural without trying to avoid this woman or making efforts to meet her either. If both of you still end up seeing each other often, then there maybe something going on both ends. The fact that she is constantly inviting you to events and seeks your presence suggests there may be mutual interest. I am not going to say more so that I don't confuse you even more, but hang in here and keep improving health. The situation will resolve one way or another. When there is love involved, things cannot stay static for long.
Just my 2c.
 
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haidut said:
"...I’m going to guess that its when you’re in Love, when the whole world shines and feels alive with possibility, everything is fresh and new, nothing seems impossible, well guess what, in a review examining the neubiology of love, low serotonin was associated with falling in love and SSRIs appeared to interfere with feeling love (Langeslag 2009). Interesting, LSD supposedly makes you crazy, much of the popular ideas about serotonin grew out of the anti-LSD propaganda, we talk about falling madly in love with someone, and in this state people will throw caution to the wind and do things that may seem hopelessly crazy."

That's an interesting perspective on the whole "LSD makes you crazy" claim.

It seems like people saying this may not be so misinformed about the drugs real effects, but have a different value system from which that state of mind is viewed as insane, whereas others would consider it healthy.

Could this explain why there is so much disagreement on the role of serotonin itself?
 

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Hmmm... I know that the best treatment for a condition called ONEetist (it's a kind of stress if you can't be with chosen person) is to... get laid with another girl. Preferable with equally hot one. I don't know have you heard about the concept of "the Game" - it's a set of method or self improvement "direction" that will make you more attractive for ladies. Think about smooth player. These are few resources it will be good for you to check out:
http://xsplat.wordpress.com/
http://www.dangerandplay.com/
http://realchristianmcqueen.com/

I just suspect, that when u started to take progesterone your testosterone level went up, so you became more horny. That's good physiology I guess!
 

haidut

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CellularIconoclast said:
haidut said:
"...I’m going to guess that its when you’re in Love, when the whole world shines and feels alive with possibility, everything is fresh and new, nothing seems impossible, well guess what, in a review examining the neubiology of love, low serotonin was associated with falling in love and SSRIs appeared to interfere with feeling love (Langeslag 2009). Interesting, LSD supposedly makes you crazy, much of the popular ideas about serotonin grew out of the anti-LSD propaganda, we talk about falling madly in love with someone, and in this state people will throw caution to the wind and do things that may seem hopelessly crazy."

That's an interesting perspective on the whole "LSD makes you crazy" claim.

It seems like people saying this may not be so misinformed about the drugs real effects, but have a different value system from which that state of mind is viewed as insane, whereas others would consider it healthy.

Could this explain why there is so much disagreement on the role of serotonin itself?

That was my thinking too - LSD does indeed arise something out of people that is viewed as inherently "unhealthy" by the powers that be. Especially considering that it was the drug of choice of the hippies. During the Cold War and Vietnam, the last thing authorities wanted was a bunch of young people ignoring the "rational" path of obeying laws, acting predictably, generating income/taxes, etc. If serotonin causes that "rational" behavior then every government in the world will find a use for it.
Nowadays the effects LSD causes and are typical of young people are called "Oppositional Defiant Disorder". There are certainly valid cases for it, but it is mostly handed out to people who question authority.
I know that in virtually all hospitals in the US if you are a patient and are deemed "problematic" in terms of questioning things they will try to convince your relative to allow for you to be sedated and put on SSRI "to treat these early signs of depression". Scary stuff, so do what you can to avoid hospitals.
 
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haidut said:
Nowadays the effects LSD causes and are typical of young people are called "Oppositional Defiant Disorder". There are certainly valid cases for it, but it is mostly handed out to people who question authority.

It is life changing if the these children find a mentor (from real life or books) that can teach subtle subversive behavior rather than outright defiance, early on before they're "identified" as "problematic" and medicated into numb compliance. This might seem cynical, but for these children to be healthy and happy they need to learn to outsmart and manipulate adults that would treat their individuality as a disease.

This is an ancient phenomena that you can find in most cultures with stories about a trickster: the native american coyote, the norse god Loki, etc. These stories teach independent children the tools they need to survive an authoritarian culture:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_tricksters

These stories themselves are subversive in a subtle way, and only the intended audience will see them for what they are.

If anyone knows a child like this consider buying them a fiction book such as The Diamond Age by Neal Stephenson or The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams. These appear to be benign fiction books but they are not, they are life changing in an appropriate context.
 

Brian

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Oppositional Defiant Disorder is very common in people who were sexually abused or experienced an intense betrayal by their own father as young children, which is probably a completely different condition than someone who is naturally inclined to being their own authority, so it makes even less sense to put them in the same category.

Although, I wonder out of pure speculation if there could be some similarities in their psychology. Maybe, as a survival mechanism the brain strongly reduces serotonin (maybe without increasing dopamine) and other changes in order to prevent another betrayal from an authority figure ever happening again. And since the brain change happened during very early childhood the changes will be practically permanent.

But back to the original topic, I'll second the suggestion to find another person or goal to direct your love at if the you think it's a bad idea to pursue her. It doesn't necessarily have to be romantic love either. Thoreau said something like, "The only remedy for love is to love more" That's the only healthy solution, because otherwise you will have to worsen your health to feel less emotion.
 
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Gl;itch.e

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Cool! Glad to see a bit of discussion being generated! :):

Would you guys think that 3-9g (avg about 6g in two doses) of Taurine a day might have enough of an influence on dopamine levels to play a role in this? I have been using between this level of Taurine for the last month or so. I just find it strange that even though I guess I've known this girl and liked her for a year or so that seemingly all of a sudden things have taken this emotional turn.
 

Ben

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Dopamine generates love, serotonin dulls it (like everything). But, dopamine also generates self-control and introspective behavior, while serotonin reduces it. Basically, neither dopamine or serotonin will help you fall out of love or to control your drives. The real work to be done exists on the psychological level.

Look within yourself. Why do you like her? What if she was much less sexually attractive than she is. Would you still be in love with her? Looks are the first thing that grows old in a relationship. Could her, or anyone's personality REALLY keep you content, or are you responsible for your own contentness? If you can keep content by yourself, then why are you in love with her? If this feeling of love is silly, and she doesn't really matter, why don't you go try to score a date with her? Rejection is just as good as success. If you try to impress her, you will always struggle to do so with her, and so instead of remaining content you're stuck with "work" instead of "fun". Be yourself. Then you can remain content in a relationship, and have a long-term relationship with her, with no discontent.
 
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Gl;itch.e

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Ben said:
Dopamine generates love, serotonin dulls it (like everything). But, dopamine also generates self-control and introspective behavior, while serotonin reduces it. Basically, neither dopamine or serotonin will help you fall out of love or to control your drives. The real work to be done exists on the psychological level.
I dont disagree that a lot of this is psychological, but I find it fascinating that something we could be doing diet or supplementation wise could potentially also play a role.

Look within yourself. Why do you like her? What if she was much less sexually attractive than she is. Would you still be in love with her? Looks are the first thing that grows old in a relationship. Could her, or anyone's personality REALLY keep you content, or are you responsible for your own contentness? If you can keep content by yourself, then why are you in love with her? If this feeling of love is silly, and she doesn't really matter, why don't you go try to score a date with her? Rejection is just as good as success. If you try to impress her, you will always struggle to do so with her, and so instead of remaining content you're stuck with "work" instead of "fun". Be yourself. Then you can remain content in a relationship, and have a long-term relationship with her, with no discontent.
Well theres no doubt I find her attractive, but then that hasn't been whats drawn me to her. It's definitely the person as a whole. Part of it is the recognition that she stimulates, challenges and seems to bring out the best in me. It sounds cliched, but she makes me feel like a better person, rather than in other friendships/work relationships where I feel I am running at a reduced state of stimulation and awareness.

I understand what you are getting at though. Love thyself.
 

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What a fascinating thread :):
I'm in the same situation, actually. My advice would be to find a way to be content with what you share with this girl, whatever it may be. There is something lovely and bitter-sweet about harbouring feelings for someone who does not know you feel that way. It doesn't have to be sad; it can be a beautiful way to be, and it can be a learning curve.
Love her selflessly; be good company, trustworthy, kind, and enjoy the time you spend with her, but don't try to "consume" her, don't want more and more from her.
To paraphrase Osho, when we see a beautiful flower, we are drawn to it because of how beautiful it is in it's natural state. If we selfishly pick the flower, it dies and ceases to be what we loved about it initially.

But yes, I have noticed such a dramatic change in the way I feel since playing around with serotonin and dopamine. It's amazing really, how much it affects who we are :):
 
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[BBvideo 560,340:1loo8mb9]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajp0Uaw4rqo[/BBvideo]
 
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Gl;itch.e

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gummybear said:
[BBvideo 560,340:mfe86oqr]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajp0Uaw4rqo[/BBvideo]
lol you silly fructose filled confectionery treat
 
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Well, what's the verdict? It's been a few months for you boys, Curt:): & Gl;tch.e, have you successfully fallen out of love?

I am finding myself in a similar situation, been messing around with reducing serotonin and using dopamine agonists. I am in love with every body...except the one I'm with. No that's not quite true. I love him too, deeply and would never ever want to hurt him.

HOWEVER, lately I feel bored and sort of ho-hum around him now... I met him while living a low-carb paleo lifestyle, which he likes very much. Low-carbing didn't work for me, my health issues were so extreme that sex was the last thing on my mind. I went looking for help and ended up here. He watched me go through some pretty intense changes, but he is not interested in Peating. So now I feel like we are strangers, at an impasse, incompatible. Anyone else experience this with a significant other?

He has health issues that affect our intimacy (ED), his energy is waning, has very low testosterone etc. So while I feel like I am now 20 years younger than my true age of 48, he suddenly seems very old to me even though he is only 54.

I do not want to break his heart, but I am shriveling on the vine from a lack of mad passionate love-making. What's a girl to do? He is not interested in learning healthy ways to fix what ails him and in fact thinks everything is perfectly normal because his doctor says it's normal for men his age.

Help! I have NO idea what to do here or how to approach this situation, it's a delicate one with men I guess...any advice for me would be most appreciated.

We need a Peat dating site...just sayin, then you KNOW what you're getting in to. :kisscheek
 

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