TSH over 350, seeing endo later today

archRIP

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Hi,

Saw PCP last November, hypERthyroid symptoms (weight loss), TSH came back over 30, was put on 25mcg levothyroxine.

I always get the Lannet brand.

Came back beginning of January, TSH was 6.8 and T4 was 1.19. Upped to 50mcg.

Saw endo in march, he said I should try 25 mcg again. 6 weeks later, my TSH is through the roof (higher than before treatment). Endo did an ultrasound and said I have hashimotos (did not test for antibodies or perform biopsy. Said that he can tell because thyroid tissue isn't homogenous texture so immune system is attacking it).

Was I close to a myxedemic coma? Should I ask about T3? Seeing endo again this afternoon--I had the results faxed to me this morning from the lab and am surprised my TSH is so high(352.1 uIU/mL, 0.56ng/dL free T4). I feel like garbage and have nipple discharge which is new. 20yoFemale
 
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That's crazy high! You should try to get T3 right away, and some cyproheptadine or bromocriptine. Start with the T3 VERY easy. If you only have T4 use it like this: take a hot shower, wrap yourself in blankets, eat lots of sweets and then take the T4 after a couple of hours.
 

aguilaroja

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archRIP said:
...am surprised my TSH is so high(352.1 uIU/mL, 0.56ng/dL free T4). I feel like garbage and have nipple discharge which is new...

I am wondering what happened. By this writing, you have probably seen the endocrinologist. Hopefully, the endocrinologist had thoughts about T3.

It is hoped that the endocrinologist is taking the very very high TSH value seriously. When the number is that high, one thing would be to re-check the blood level very soon, to check the possibility of an erroneous result. IMNHO, weight loss per se is not necessarily an indicator of hyperthyroidism, even though it is listed as a sign in the texts. Some hypothyroid people are severely underweight, even though the medical stereotype of hypothyroidism is opposite.
 

Ben

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Such_Saturation said:
That's crazy high! You should try to get T3 right away, and some cyproheptadine or bromocriptine. Start with the T3 VERY easy. If you only have T4 use it like this: take a hot shower, wrap yourself in blankets, eat lots of sweets and then take the T4 after a couple of hours.
I do agree with Such_Saturation that trying cyproheptadine sounds like a very good idea for you. People with very high histamine levels can be very skinny and eat a lot of calories despite a thyroid deficiency.
 
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archRIP

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Okay everyone, got cortisol, D3, and CBC tested this morning. I'm on 100mcg synthroid now. Endo said that T3 isn't important :( RIP

What am I getting bromocriptine and an antihistamine for? I already take loratadine
 
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archRIP said:
Okay everyone, got cortisol, D3, and CBC tested this morning. I'm on 100mcg synthroid now. Endo said that T3 isn't important :( RIP

What am I getting bromocriptine and an antihistamine for?

No no, not good! Remember the shower and blankets with T4. Those two antihistamines block serotonin and prolactin and raise dopamine.
 
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archRIP

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RIP.

I take T4 everyday in the morning after my hot shower in a towel. I don't eat for an hour. Empty stomach. do i need sugar?

Will doctor give antihistamines? Oh I had prolactin measured this morning so he might give me something for the prolactin if it's high
 
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archRIP said:
RIP.

I take T4 everyday in the morning after my hot shower in a towel. I don't eat for an hour. Empty stomach. do i need sugar?

Will doctor give antihistamines? Oh I had prolactin measured this morning so he might give me something for the prolactin if it's high

Yeah, on an empty stomach it works in reverse! You need a prescription for chyproheptadine in the United States of America I think.

ballat6.jpg

:mrgreen:
 

jyb

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Ben said:
I do agree with Such_Saturation that trying cyproheptadine sounds like a very good idea for you. People with very high histamine levels can be very skinny and eat a lot of calories despite a thyroid deficiency.

Ben, I find that claim interesting (and the thread on histamine-methylation as well). Where can I read more about this? I'm a bit puzzled by my own experience: no matter hypothyroid and lethargic I've been in life, I would never take on weight no matter the diet. And cypro is probably my top supplement.
 

ilovethesea

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I don't think the T4 only is a good idea. Women especially have trouble converting T4 to active T3 due to our higher estrogen. Are you in the US? Just order Cytomel from Mexico, it's legal and you can use it in combo with the T4 from your doctor.

Also the loratadine isn't safe - it will further impair your liver and you need good liver function to convert the T4 well. Try liquid benadryl or even better cyproheptadine instead. (Cypro can also be ordered from Mexico.)
 

Ben

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ilovethesea said:
I don't think the T4 only is a good idea. Women especially have trouble converting T4 to active T3 due to our higher estrogen. Are you in the US? Just order Cytomel from Mexico, it's legal and you can use it in combo with the T4 from your doctor.

Also the loratadine isn't safe - it will further impair your liver and you need good liver function to convert the T4 well. Try liquid benadryl or even better cyproheptadine instead. (Cypro can also be ordered from Mexico.)
If the T4 is ineffective, you can tell your doctor about the possibility that it isn't being converted. I told mine that the T4 isn't working (and it wasn't), so I got a blood test done, which proved my T4 was high and my T3 was low.

While Cynomel (not cytomel, that's the American version) from Mexico is cheaper and much more convenient to use since the bottles contain many doses and you're free to take as much as you'd like, delivery takes a while. In my experience, cynomel took about a month to get where I live in the States.

I'm curious what your doctor would say about cypro (assuming you live in the States). My own doctor mentioned Zyrtec, but that's bad for the liver, so if he or she brings it up, bring up the liver concern and the fact that cypro is a very safe drug.
 

Ben

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jyb said:
Ben said:
I do agree with Such_Saturation that trying cyproheptadine sounds like a very good idea for you. People with very high histamine levels can be very skinny and eat a lot of calories despite a thyroid deficiency.

Ben, I find that claim interesting (and the thread on histamine-methylation as well). Where can I read more about this? I'm a bit puzzled by my own experience: no matter hypothyroid and lethargic I've been in life, I would never take on weight no matter the diet. And cypro is probably my top supplement.
Here is the most informative site on this subject:

http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/ ... /walsh.htm

Some parts I agree with, others not so much. A person who's hypothyroid but doesn't put on weight most likely has an overactive process of glycolysis. I don't know if this was actually written about histadelia, or if I thought this is the case because histadelics tend to be hypoglycemic, and overmethylators tend to be hyperglycemic. What I do know is that histamine activates glycolysis, and thyroid can suppress an excessive amount of glycolysis and reduce caloric need this way.
 
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archRIP

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Ben said:
A person who's hypothyroid but doesn't put on weight most likely has an overactive process of glycolysis. I don't know if this was actually written about histadelia, or if I thought this is the case because histadelics tend to be hypoglycemic, and overmethylators tend to be hyperglycemic. What I do know is that histamine activates glycolysis, and thyroid can suppress an excessive amount of glycolysis and reduce caloric need this way.

I put on 6 lbs in the past month, probably cuz of hypo...

Ben said:
If the T4 is ineffective, you can tell your doctor about the possibility that it isn't being converted. I told mine that the T4 isn't working (and it wasn't), so I got a blood test done, which proved my T4 was high and my T3 was low.

While Cynomel (not cytomel, that's the American version) from Mexico is cheaper and much more convenient to use since the bottles contain many doses and you're free to take as much as you'd like, delivery takes a while. In my experience, cynomel took about a month to get where I live in the States.

I'm curious what your doctor would say about cypro (assuming you live in the States). My own doctor mentioned Zyrtec, but that's bad for the liver, so if he or she brings it up, bring up the liver concern and the fact that cypro is a very safe drug.

I'm in the US. My T4 was low, not high.

I'm still confused. Why do I need cypro? I don't want to gain any more weight.
 
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Well, the gain from the cyproheptadine is negligible compared to that from being ill, and also you have nipple discharge from the prolactin (bromocriptine is supposed to work). Remember:

[BBvideo 560,340:1ywajlz9]http://youtu.be/_hB7u7CYW1U[/BBvideo]
 
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archRIP

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Such_Saturation said:
Well, the gain from the cyproheptadine is negligible compared to that from being ill, and also you have nipple discharge from the prolactin (bromocriptine is supposed to work).

Oh. Why do I want cypro then? Just for allergies? How does it compare to benadryl (I have 500ct that I got from Costco for $4)

I should get the results from the prolactin test tomorrow at which point I guess my doctor will prescribe me bromocriptine or something?
 
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archRIP said:
Such_Saturation said:
Well, the gain from the cyproheptadine is negligible compared to that from being ill, and also you have nipple discharge from the prolactin (bromocriptine is supposed to work).

Oh. Why do I want cypro then? Just for allergies? How does it compare to benadryl (I have 500ct that I got from Costco for $4)

I should get the results from the prolactin test tomorrow at which point I guess my doctor will prescribe me bromocriptine or something?

Cyproheptadine is what I tried and it really brings the stress down, Benadryl should be fine as well though.
 
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archRIP

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Such_Saturation said:
Cyproheptadine is what I tried and it really brings the stress down, Benadryl should be fine as well though.

What kind of stress?

I got benadryl since my PCP recommended it. I'll ask him if cypro may work better. Would be sweet if my insurance covered it with $0 copay like they do for most other cheap (tier 1) meds :lol:
 
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archRIP said:
Such_Saturation said:
Cyproheptadine is what I tried and it really brings the stress down, Benadryl should be fine as well though.

What kind of stress?

I got benadryl since my PCP recommended it. I'll ask him if cypro may work better. Would be sweet if my insurance covered it with $0 copay like they do for most other cheap (tier 1) meds :lol:

He won't even know what cyproheptadine is, but it's fine. There's only one kind of stress!
 
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archRIP

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Okay guys, after being on 100mcg for 9 days I'm now getting classic t3 tremors and sweating, high body temperature, etc...

pretty sure that means it's being converted ok
 

ilovethesea

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archRIP said:
Okay guys, after being on 100mcg for 9 days I'm now getting classic t3 tremors and sweating, high body temperature, etc...

pretty sure that means it's being converted ok

That may be, but you'll never read anything where Ray recommends being on T4 meds only. Many people can do ok on T4 for the first few years, especially if you're young, but most likely not in the long-term.

"The liver has to convert T4 to T3 for it to be effective. It needs glucose and selenium to make the conversion. Adequate protein, at least 80 grams per day, is necessary. Sea food, once a week will provide selenium, two quarts of milk and a quart of orange juice would provide many of the other essential nutrients. Taking T4 at bedtime sometimes is helpful. Most people feel best on a ratio of T4:T3 of 4:1 or less. Checking the relaxation rate of the Achilles reflex is a quick way to check the effect of the thyroid on your nerves and muscles; the relaxation should be instantaneous, loose and floppy. " - Ray Peat

Re: your symptoms, they sound like stress hormones not "good conversion" anyway... have you measured temps before and after meals? That's a good indicator if you're running off stress hormones - if they go down and/or you feel a bit tired after eating.

In addition to getting some T3, I would try more sugar + more calories - this quote explains why:

"Thyroid is the basic regulator of blood glucose, and it causes it to be fully oxidized for energy, so that it produces ATP efficiently, on relatively few calories. If blood glucose falls, because it's being used very quickly, the body responds with stress hormones, including glucagon, adrenalin, and cortisol. They cause fat and protein to be burned for energy, while in hypothyroidism, glucose can still be used inefficiently for glycolysis, producing lactic acid, displacing bicarbonate and carbon dioxide. This causes mineral imbalances, with effects including cramps and nerve-muscle tension, which produce heat and waste energy. When you first start taking thyroid again, your tissues will need some extra magnesium, during the time when the dose is increasing, and when the mineral balance is restored your temperature and metabolic rate might decrease a little. Orange juice, milk, and coffee are good for the main minerals, while salting your food to taste. " - Ray Peat

100 mcg of T4 is quite a high starting dose (2 grains) - I'm surprised your doctor recommended that. Usual advice is to start with 1/2 or 1 grain equivalent...

"if too much [thyroid] is taken suddenly, a person who has been deficient in thyroid is likely to experience an excess of adrenaline." - Ray Peat

"when your stress hormones are very high, you shouldn't take more than about one microgram of Cytomel at a time, and should accompany it with things like milk and orange juice. " - Ray Peat
 
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