histamine at 3 different times

Peata · Jun 27, 2014

I have histamine problems producing runny nose, sneezing, and an asthmatic cough. This happens in the morning, after exercise, and especially at night.

What is the problem and what can I do?

I have been taking ginger morning and night and benadryl if it gets real bad at night. I just took a small piece of benadryl since I'm coughing and have sneezing and runny nose after my workout.

tara · Jun 27, 2014

I have tended to morningitis - sneezing, runny nose, etc when I wake up in teh morning. Sometimes wake up and not be able to go back to sleep for sneezing. Improved lately, but we'll see if it's back in spring. Breakfast (or 3am snack) is usually what helps for me. I'm assuming it's another blood sugar dip phenomenon, for me at least.

Peata · Jun 30, 2014

Thank you for your reply, Tara.

Yesterday evening I took a walk - it was humid. I ran up bleachers. Not ran as some people do, but the best pace I could do without overburdening myself and stopping to rest halfway like I usually do. Then I'd walk back down, walk around a bit, then do it again. Three times total.

They were tall bleachers, not the little ones that set on the side of sports fields. At the end of the third round, I walked back down and felt my airways closing. My heart was beating hard, I was trying not to hyperventilate so tried to focus on breathing through nose. I didn't feel like I was getting much air into my lungs and that started a panic attack. I kept talking to my friend like nothing was happening, but it occurred to me that I might have to tell her what was happening, or I might collapse and she'd have to call an ambulance. I didn't want any such thing so I kept slowly walking, breathing, and willing myself to calm down. Eventually things calmed down and I could breathe fine and the weird feelings passed. I was proud of myself for calming down instead of advancing into full-blown panic.

Anyway, I obviously dislike not being able to breathe. About a month ago, I had a terrible experience that still makes me panic some when I think about it - I woke up with a terrible start, sat bolt-upright in bed with no air in my lungs. I gasped horribly trying to breathe, feeling like I was suffocating. It finally passed and I went back to sleep.

And I do cough when I exercise, and still cough some in the morning and evenings. I noticed today while working out that at least I was coughing stuff up this time, not just a dry cough.

managing · Jun 30, 2014

Serotonin is the pathway to histamine. There is a lot on RP about reducing serotonin (carrot salad being popular, but doesn't do it for me). Tianeptine on the other hand totally eliminated my spring allergies this year w/o any side effects I could discern, other than "happy w/ a good attitude".

tara · Jun 30, 2014

Hi Peata, Sounds scary - well done getting yourself calmed down. Sounds like asthma. I like walking on hills - certainly haven't got the stamina to run up them. :) I now limit myself to a pace that I can do with my mouth shut, too. When I woke up noticeably hyperventilating during a stressful patch, I sometimes had to get up and move to get it calmed down again. Hasn't happened much lately - I credit the tape, as well as reduced stress and hunger. But I think the tape didn't work for you.

Peata · Jun 30, 2014

Tara, the tape irritated my lips. I became sensitive to pretty much every kind of tape there is after I had a surgery on a part of my skin and had to keep it taped for a long time. It's too bad because tape worked so well keeping my lips closed at night. I've tried the bandage but I still can't get it to stay on all night.

Yes, I think it's asthma. I was coughing some in the winter and then it seemed to get better as spring came on, but lately it's back. I have this feeling that it was brought on by inflammation from my big ol' weight gain - the insulin resistance and all the inflammation that must have been going on with the extra fat, estrogen, serotonin, histamine, etc. I'm hoping if I can lose weight the problem will go away. I'm going to keep up the caffeine intake to try to help it too.

Oh, nobody could call what I did running, not really. I tried to jog up the steps. I kept my lips closed during the "run" and when I had the attack where I couldn't breathe, I tried to do it as well - to keep from sucking in too much oxygen through my mouth.

But looking back from January on through that nasty winter, I know my serotonin raised, estrogen, fat, histamine, all of it. I kept trying different things, doing all I could but I think it pretty much goes back to my body couldn't use the carbs properly, so the fat built up and with it the estrogen, serotonin, prolactin, histamine, etc.

I only hope it's not too late to correct it all. I really don't think it is.

tara · Jun 30, 2014

There are various chin straps available online. I don't have a specific recommendation, but they have features designed to keep them in place, and some of them are not very expensive. E.g.:
http://www.amazon.com/Ruby-Chin-Strap-A ... X39W4SCQ65

Peata · Jun 30, 2014

tara said:
There are various chin straps available online. I don't have a specific recommendation, but they have features designed to keep them in place, and some of them are not very expensive. E.g.:
http://www.amazon.com/Ruby-Chin-Strap-A ... X39W4SCQ65

Thanks, I will look into them.

aguilaroja · Jul 1, 2014

Peata said:
I have histamine problems producing runny nose, sneezing, and an asthmatic cough. This happens in the morning, after exercise, and especially at night...

It may be slightly Peat-alitically incorrect, but it may be helpful to use Cromolyn Sodium nasal spray (Nasalcrom, (Rynacrom(UK), Lomusol(France)). It works for most, not all, pollen sensitive people. Its side effect profile is mild, compared to most nasal sprays. (Also, it is not a corticosteroid, nor a phenylephrine compound.) It seems to prevent histamine release. It is an over the counter product most places. "Allergists" don't seem to mention often, perhaps because of more convenience and better marketing of the cortisone nasal sprays.

For most people, it requires frequent use (several times a day), and its acts more fully being used consistently. I know many people (a few Peaters included) with major pollen allergies who find the spray most helpful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromoglicic_acid

Peata · Jul 1, 2014

aguilaroja said:
Peata said:

I have histamine problems producing runny nose, sneezing, and an asthmatic cough. This happens in the morning, after exercise, and especially at night...

Click to expand...

It may be slightly Peat-alitically incorrect, but it may be helpful to use Cromolyn Sodium nasal spray (Nasalcrom, (Rynacrom(UK), Lomusol(France)). It works for most, not all, pollen sensitive people. Its side effect profile is mild, compared to most nasal sprays. (Also, it is not a corticosteroid, nor a phenylephrine compound.) It seems to prevent histamine release. It is an over the counter product most places. "Allergists" don't seem to mention often, perhaps because of more convenience and better marketing of the cortisone nasal sprays.

For most people, it requires frequent use (several times a day), and its acts more fully being used consistently. I know many people (a few Peaters included) with major pollen allergies who find the spray most helpful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromoglicic_acid

Thank you. I would have never thought to try this if you hadn't mentioned it. I'm printing their $2 off coupon and getting started right away. I sneeze so hard it hurts and makes me dizzy. It's afternoon and I still have the cough. I took as much Benadryl as I could to try to help but not enough to get sleepy, but it's still not enough. Nasalcrom sounds like it could help.

Peata · Jul 1, 2014

It's not available here for some reason. I'll have to order online.

Peata · Jul 2, 2014

Earlier today, I had to fight off a panic attack at one point while working out. As I got off one of the machines, I felt it coming on - this sense of things being a dream (more like a nightmare) and airways closing - the fear of not being able to breathe. I calmly stood and focused on breathing through nose and was able to get it to go away and I could finish the workout.

Not as much coughing today though.

I think this is all a combo of things - the excess weight causing inflammation in my body, the particularly bad time with allergies causing inflammation of airways, mucus, panic attack making things worse (not sure if panic results from the asthma or if I bring on the panic with some trigger such as thinking about it for a second or elevated heart from working out..), and I wonder if I'm producing a lot of lactic acid during exercise which might be contributing.

I just found Nasalcrom at a local pharmacy (very small local chain), though it was more expensive even with the coupon. But it will give me a chance to try it. I just took the first dose.

Blossom · Jul 2, 2014

You may also be blowing off some CO2 with exercise in addition to the histamine/serotonin/lactic acid issues mentioned. If you ever experience the issue with difficulty breathing like you described after the workout on the bleachers I would immediately do some bag breathing to see if it helps. I think it will at least assist in restoring any CO2 you may have blown off during exercise and calm your anxiety.

HDD · Jul 2, 2014

Peata, this may explain what you are experiencing.

"It turns out that exercise induces the signs and symptoms of asthma, not only in “asthmatics,” but in normal people too."

"Anaerobic exercise (getting out of breath) increases the release of, or activity of, a large variety of inflammatory mediators, beginning with lactic acid and interleukin-6 releases from the exercised muscle itself, and including factors released from various cells in the blood, and hormones including estrogen, prolactin, and sometimes TSH.”

“Exercise increases the incidence of asthma.”

http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/0 ... -exercise/

tara · Jul 2, 2014

Both panic attacks and asthma are known to be triggered by hyperventilation in susceptible people.

Patrick McKeown has trained people and written books about eliminating asthma symptoms with Buteyko method. It involves lots of practice at slight air hunger when you are not having an attack. Eg. seeing how many steps you can take while holding your breath, several times in a row with a short rest in between, a couple of times a day till you can get up to 80 brisk walking steps. He says if you can maintain 80 you don't get symptoms. There are youtube videos of him. I saw one where he was training kids to interrupt asthma attacks at the first sign by sitting down and doing a series of short breath holds. Something like this last one sometimes works for my son. Sounds like you've been doing well at stopping them.

Along with what Blossom and HDD have said above, I think exercise can quickly get to a point of doing more glycolysis (lactic acid-forming) and less oxidation (CO2 -producing) of sugar than at rest, which would have the same effect as hyperventilation.

Peata · Jul 2, 2014

Thank you, all of you. I'll look into your words more. I can't respond well individually to you now because I haven't fell well all afternoon. I feel like I'm always fighting off panic. Part of it may be a blood sugar drop around 3:30 - I took care of it best I could.

One more connection I just realized - I went through something similar last month just before my period and early into it.... I don't remember there being asthma symptoms, but I had other similar problems as now = weakness in limbs, some panic to fight off. I attributed it to low electrolytes since I had chronic diarrhea that time. Now I don't know what to think for this month. It's obviously got a hormonal element.

I don't understand all the hormonal stuff and what to do about it now. I thought I was getting a handle on it since I was taking Progest E - large doses daily since April. Some things have improved for my efforts but some things have come up in their place.

Any advice appreciated as to what more I can do about the hormones.

Peata · Jul 2, 2014

For about the last hour, I've been feeling better. I know it could start up again anytime, so I'm enjoying this feeling of normalcy. Of not having to dwell on my breath, heaviness in lungs, heartbeat, muscle weakness, light-headedness, anxiety.... It should always be like I am right now, just feeling fine and no anxieties. I must stop this cycle though, I can't go on with this every month til menopause.

tara · Jul 2, 2014

I wish I knew what to do with hormones for myself too. My current experiment is very low dose NWT from TOK*. My initial impression is good, but I've only been doing it a couple of weeks. Not what you'd call a convenient supplement - I missed it accidentally this morning, so I hope that doesn't crash me.

*Natural Wet Thyroid (NWT) in the form of 1tbsp chicken neck stock morning and evening from Tara's Own Kitchen (TOK). Inspired by Mittir. :) I wasn't rigorous enough when I made and froze it to say how much this is in chicken necks, let alone in T3 and T4 equivalence.

HDD · Jul 2, 2014

Have you looked at this blog on exercise?

http://www.co2factor.blogspot.com/

He has some helpful advice for before, during, and after exercise.

managing · Jul 4, 2014

Peata: I realize most people want to avoid pharmaceuticals, but I am going to suggest tianeptine again. You definitely have underlying issues that need to be dealt with. But I tianeptine will give you instant relief from asthma as well as panic/anxiety (probably) while you address it. I found that after taking it for a few weeks regularly, it upregulated my serotonin reuptake significantly (I presume) and I only take it once or twice a week now per symptoms.

Fuad Lechin has worked with it extensively for asthma, here for example: http://www.lechin.com/asthma.htm

Serotonin begets histamine. Antihistamines try to prevent histamines from finding their receptors (yeah, I know, but I don't have a language for RPs way of explaining). But tianeptine rapidly cycles serotonin through your system so that excessive histamine never forms.

Do your own research on RPs page and the fora, but I just can't find side effects. You don't feel drugged like with antihistamines. Really the only "side effect" i've found is a good attitude.

And it is available legally w/o a prescription.

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histamine at 3 different times

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